Maybe Shaq can get double double against Yao.But that didn't mean that Yao isn' t a D player.Last season in the playoffs,he got the 2nd place in BPG.As the existing of Yao,the defence of Rockets became one of the best in the NBA.
Allen Iverson deserves a vote too. He does get alot of steals, but that's not D. I've seen Marbury torch Iverson plenty times. If you watch him closely, he doesn't have any effort defensively. With that said, Steve Nash couldn't spell D.
Lebron probably, followed by Dirk. Lebron plays the passing lanes well, but he gets burned man to man. VC lit him up pretty much every game they played last year, and even MoPete got 35 off him. PLus, nobody can forget what Tayshaun did to him last year, that was nasty.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Lebron probably, followed by Dirk. Lebron plays the passing lanes well, but he gets burned man to man. VC lit him up pretty much every game they played last year, and even MoPete got 35 off him. PLus, nobody can forget what Tayshaun did to him last year, that was nasty.</div> I gotta disagree with lebron being the worst. While he is obviously not a great defender, he is definetly not the worst in comparison to his offensive play. One of the reasons he does get burned is because he knows that hes not a great one on one defender so he goes for steals. He does get a good amount of them but this also leads to getting burnt. He played vince in only two games this year and vince did average 30 ppg. First of all those stats dont show how many times help didnt come or how many points came on the break or on a switch. You also cant decide on a players defensive worth based on his play against one player. I looked at the boxscores on nba.com and couldnt find mopetes 35 point game. The final cavs raps game wouldnt show up so its either that came or you got the stat wrong. IMO lebron would be near the top but guys like nash and peja would definetly be above him.
Off the top of my head Im going with Starbury hes great on offense but on defense he doesnt try sometimes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I gotta disagree with lebron being the worst. While he is obviously not a great defender, he is definetly not the worst in comparison to his offensive play. One of the reasons he does get burned is because he knows that hes not a great one on one defender so he goes for steals. He does get a good amount of them but this also leads to getting burnt. He played vince in only two games this year and vince did average 30 ppg. First of all those stats dont show how many times help didnt come or how many points came on the break or on a switch. You also cant decide on a players defensive worth based on his play against one player. I looked at the boxscores on nba.com and couldnt find mopetes 35 point game. The final cavs raps game wouldnt show up so its either that came or you got the stat wrong. IMO lebron would be near the top but guys like nash and peja would definetly be above him</div> Your right it wasn't MoPete, it was Jalen. I'll agree with you that guys like Peja and Nash are worse defenders, but I would still definetly rank him top 5 in this category, if not top three. Lebron is just the first one that came to my head because of the Tayshaun play.
Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitski are both bad on the ball defenders. I also think KG is very overrated when it comes to defense.
So many people pick Dirk...granted, he is no one-on-one stopper, but that alone does not a poor defender make. Dirk actually makes the top 10 best defensive PF list at 82Games.com because of the impact he has to team defense when he is on the floor. Knowing where to be, where to direct the ball and creating matchup problems all add value when it comes to team defensive strategies. Your, blocks, rebounds and steals stats don't look great, but that doesn't make you a rotten defender. Rosenbaum defensive analysis
dirk, nash, and peja are horrible on D, i get what was said about how he knows where to be and everything, but in the playoffs half-court sets, none of them can seriously D people up. I heard KG mentioned and one thing i could say is he is all into that Zen **** i could see him almost conserving energy, but i've watched wars of him and TD in the playoffs i can't call his D a liability. Amare is horrible on D, he is bad because he has no damn discepline and gets in foul trouble so often, which is the worst cause now he's riding the bench and not even playing on O, i'd put sheed w/ amare in how they take themselves out of games, though sheed isn't a superstar
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Confidence_5:</div><div class="quote_post">1. steve nash 2. dirk 3. peja 4. ginobli 5. Amare</div> That is a pretty good list. I would say that Amare is more of a liability then Nash on D. Amare will improve on defense though and Nash will not.
Shaquille O'neal is the worst by far, compared to what he should be with his size and skill. There is no one in the game with his physical presence, yet Shaq is not even a top 3 rebounder in the league. Last year he averaged 10.4 per game, it's a respectable average, but Shaq should be dominating the rest of the league averaging closer to 15 per game at this point in his career. Also his blocks are not very impressive either, only 2.3 this year. I know stats don't determine a good defender, but here are other reasons why Shaq is the worst. He refuses to step outside of the key to defend his man. Once teams figured it out, they have expoited Shaq in the pick and roll. He's also not a very good help defender. Shaq is slow to react and doesn't communicate back cuts or picks to his teammates. You never see him beat his man to the spot to draw a charge. Shaq doesn't use his body to block out for rebounds despite being 7 foot, 300+ lbs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Last year he averaged 10.4 per game, it's a respectable average, but Shaq should be dominating the rest of the league averaging closer to 15 per game at this point in his career. Also his blocks are not very impressive either, only 2.3 this year.</div> Shaq was 6th in BPG, and he was only playing 34.1 MPG .You're neglecting his minutes, he had a higher BP48 mins than Ben Wallace did this season. Shaq was also tied for 13th in RP48 mins with 14.6 RPG, and 6th in RPG while playing only 34.1 MPG. I don't expect his rebounds to actually go up that much at this age, so... I think you're underatting him a lot. He hardly has players have big games against him because they're so tired from having to guard him on defense, they can't move on offense lol.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting emannen:</div><div class="quote_post">That is a pretty good list. I would say that Amare is more of a liability then Nash on D. Amare will improve on defense though and Nash will not.</div> I think Nash is more of the liability on the defensive side of the ball. Amare had some great all-around games during the playoffs. Amare is becoming a better rebounder and shot blocker, while Nash's defense is certainly a liability.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq was 6th in BPG, and he was only playing 34.1 MPG .You're neglecting his minutes, he had a higher BP48 mins than Ben Wallace did this season. Shaq was also tied for 13th in RP48 mins with 14.6 RPG, and 6th in RPG while playing only 34.1 MPG. I don't expect his rebounds to actually go up that much at this age, so... I think you're underatting him a lot. He hardly has players have big games against him because they're so tired from having to guard him on defense, they can't move on offense lol.</div> It doesn't matter what his average is for 48 mins, if he's only playing 34.1 MPG, there's a valid reason for it. Shaq's numbers are respectable, but shouldn't you expect far more from him on the defensive end of the court? Even when he played for the Lakers, I was always disappointed by his defensive efforts. Shaq is a man amongst boys when he's on the court, and he has the footwork and speed to be a lot better on the defensive end of the court. Shaq should completely dominate the NBA and average 30/20 not 20/10. Just look at his numbers from his rookie season. He averaged 13.9 RPG to go along with 3.5 BPG in only 37.9 minutes on the court. In his second season his minutes went up to 39.8, but his rebounds dropped to 13.2 and his blocks to 2.9. I would have liked to see Shaq constantly improve on those numbers as he got more experienced.
I would have to say Dirk but whoever said Amare didnt have d you must of been talkin about Amare Jones because Amare Stoudamire has okay d he still gets blocks
He [Shaq] played 34.1 mins because they were winning many games easily, and their was no reason for him to be on the floor stressing himself. His last 2-3 years as a Laker, he was fatter, and his defense did decline, but he was a better defender last season than he's been in a while. He's <u>far</u> from being a liability defensively, we're not talking about who are the biggest underachievers on defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq should completely dominate the NBA and average 30/20 not 20/10. </div> The pace of the game right now doesn't allow any player to actually average 20 rebounds. Even a guy playing 48 MPG right now would struggle to grab 20 RPG because their's just not enough shots being taken by both teams. KG is a comparable rebounder to Wilt when you take into account shots taken in their times, and even he wouldn't average 20 RPG in 48 MPG. Rodman is the onlt guy that playing 48 MPG would be able to grab 20 RPG at this pace. About his scoring, he was always around the 30 PPG area till what, 2 years ago? He's averaged between 26-30 PPG 10 of his 13 years in the league. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I would have to say Dirk but whoever said Amare didnt have d you must of been talkin about Amare Jones because Amare Stoudamire has okay d he still gets blocks</div> He block shots, but what else? His man to man defense is bad, he picks up fouls too quickly, and when he's not even in foul trouble he let's easy penetration go by, so he can run down the court to get an easy basket. When he is in foul trouble, it's like he's not their on defense, and he neglects rebounding duties, so he can score.
D When talking of terrible defensive superstars two really stick out in my mind, Amare Stoudamire and Steve Nash. Amare is a terrible defender which is masked by his athletacism which leads to many blocks. People see his block statistics and forget the atrocious job he does on defense. Nash also is a very poor defender and that is why I had such a problem with his winning of the MVP award last year. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Even a guy playing 48 MPG right now would struggle to grab 20 RPG because their's just not enough shots being taken by both teams. KG is a comparable rebounder to Wilt when you take into account shots taken in their times, and even he wouldn't average 20 RPG in 48 MPG. Rodman is the onlt guy that playing 48 MPG would be able to grab 20 RPG at this pace.</div> How about Reggie Evans? Last year he averaged 9.3 rpg in just under 24 minutes per game bringing his rebounds per 48 minute rate to 18.8. With last year being only his third year in the league it is not unreasonable for him to improve by 2 r/48m considering that he improved more than that last year. Also Dirk gets too much flak for his defense which picked up a lot last year and was no longer a liability defensivly. For someone of his talent level it should still be a lot better but he is no where near as bad as Amare.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">He [Shaq] played 34.1 mins because they were winning many games easily, and their was no reason for him to be on the floor stressing himself. His last 2-3 years as a Laker, he was fatter, and his defense did decline, but he was a better defender last season than he's been in a while. He's <u>far</u> from being a liability defensively, we're not talking about who are the biggest underachievers on defense. The pace of the game right now doesn't allow any player to actually average 20 rebounds. Even a guy playing 48 MPG right now would struggle to grab 20 RPG because their's just not enough shots being taken by both teams. KG is a comparable rebounder to Wilt when you take into account shots taken in their times, and even he wouldn't average 20 RPG in 48 MPG. Rodman is the onlt guy that playing 48 MPG would be able to grab 20 RPG at this pace. About his scoring, he was always around the 30 PPG area till what, 2 years ago? He's averaged between 26-30 PPG 10 of his 13 years in the league. He block shots, but what else? His man to man defense is bad, he picks up fouls too quickly, and when he's not even in foul trouble he let's easy penetration go by, so he can run down the court to get an easy basket. When he is in foul trouble, it's like he's not their on defense, and he neglects rebounding duties, so he can score.</div> You keep bringing up names and scenarios, but Shaq is unlike any other player to ever compete in the NBA. You mention Wilt's era and more shot attempts, but there were also better big men in Wilt's era. Him and Russell just took pride in cleaning the glass, something Shaq has never set out to do. Shaq doesn't hustle after rebounds, even though he's more than capable of it. He's a poor defensive rebounder for a man with his size and skill. We shouldn't even be mentioning Shaq in the same sentence as KG, Ben Wallace, or Rodman. It should be Shaq and then everyone else, because Shaq should be a far superior rebounder given his size and skill. Right now he's 19th all time for rebounding average.
