<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 23 2006, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry but he is far from being the best ever. His lyrics, longevity, impact are not anywhere near Nas. Tupac was a hypocrite to the black community, he was trying to act like a spokesman while being a criminal at the same time. On a music side, none of his albums are truely classic material. You can whine all you want but anyone who really knows hip-hop would agree with me. All Eyez on Me had it's problems, Me Against The World was probably his best but it still wasn't classic. He gave it three good attempts so I guess it's fair to say he had 1 classic album. Now lets go back to your statement of him being the greatest, while Tupac has 1 classic album and two great others Nas has arguably the best and most influential album of all time. When you think hip-hop, you think Illmatic. Followed by Illmatic was a couple more of classics in Stillmatic, Gods Son and It Was Written. Thats already 4 classic albums compared to Tupac's 1. If you wanna look at lyrics, it's not even close. Nas is on another level lyrically then Tupac.Tupac started off as a poor political rapper and quickly changed to more of a gangster rapper which is when he gained most of his success. However, while doing that he released a ton of poor club songs. Tupac has his moments in Dear Mama, Me Against the World and other songs when he truely makes you reach in deep but as far as I'm concerned, thats all he did well.He was a poet but when you listen to his music you don't pay attention to the lyrics, it's the emotion you feel while hearing them. When you play a Tupac song, your main focus isn't the lyrics. Album wise, he put out three good albums and people consider him the best ever? Thats unfair to say when someone like KRS One has about 7 classic albums at least.One last thing, while he might have made a big impact, alot of other great rappers have made bigger impact. Their you go austingriz, show me what you got.</div>It Was Written was garbage. Nas has had 3 albums I can call classic: Illmatic (best of all time), Stillmatic, and the Lost Tapes. God's Son was very good but not classic like Illmatic or Stillmatic. Sure, 2Pac hasan't had any true "classic" albums, or albums I consider top 20 all time, but he has had TONS of great singles. You say all he was good at was the emotional stuff, and I disagree with that. Sure, the emotional stuff is what he did best and what he did most often, but his diss tracks like Hit 'Em up and the Realest sh*t I ever Wrote were both classics, as well as others. He simply never put it all together well enough to make a true classic album, but IMO that doesn't really take much away from his career.Say what you want....NO ONE has made a bigger impact on the hip hop community like 2Pac did. EVERYONE looks up to him for one reason or another. He was an enigma, and his image still lives on like he never died.But personally, I think Nas is the greatest rapper of all time for the simple fact that when he doesn't try "new" things to spruce up career with weird ass songs and beats (Streets Disciple), he is the best lyracist of all time and simply can't be touched in that area. I hope to god he goes back to his old roots and writes a straight up rap album next time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 25 2006, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It Was Written was garbage. Nas has had 3 albums I can call classic: Illmatic (best of all time), Stillmatic, and the Lost Tapes. God's Son was very good but not classic like Illmatic or Stillmatic. Sure, 2Pac hasan't had any true "classic" albums, or albums I consider top 20 all time, but he has had TONS of great singles. You say all he was good at was the emotional stuff, and I disagree with that. Sure, the emotional stuff is what he did best and what he did most often, but his diss tracks like Hit 'Em up and the Realest sh*t I ever Wrote were both classics, as well as others. He simply never put it all together well enough to make a true classic album, but IMO that doesn't really take much away from his career.Say what you want....NO ONE has made a bigger impact on the hip hop community like 2Pac did. EVERYONE looks up to him for one reason or another. He was an enigma, and his image still lives on like he never died.But personally, I think Nas is the greatest rapper of all time for the simple fact that when he doesn't try "new" things to spruce up career with weird ass songs and beats (Streets Disciple), he is the best lyracist of all time and simply can't be touched in that area. I hope to god he goes back to his old roots and writes a straight up rap album next time.</div> :worthy: Completely Agree with you Nitro. But by the way that one song is not called "Realest sh*t I ever Wrote" It's called "Against All Odds". But yeah nice post, I could not have said it better.
The reason why 2pac dont have "classic albums" is cause bitches try to make it and weak rappers like Chamillionare and 50 cent are on it knowing that if Pac was alive he wouldve been beefing with them, not having them on his album. And why else would you listen to rap if its not for the lyrics? If you want a good song with a sick beat pick up some southern rap. But the true hip-hop is 2pac and his lyrics. Yeah Nas is up there, but he dont go as deep as Pac went. Just to show how great 2pac was, my 50+ yr old white english teacher assigned some people to do a biography on 2pac(project about poets). You said he was a hypocrite cause he tried to be a spokesmen for the black community but he would turn around and get in trouble with the law, well, he said himself he doesn't want to be a role-model. Theres a famous video where he says "im from the gutter, I will always be a thug"etc etc. Point is, as a hip-hop fan I want to hear some deep sh*t, and 2pac was deeper and wrote deeper music than Nas ever did. Differene between Pac and Nas is 2pac was a musical and poetic genuiss and Nas isnt. 100 years from now, 2pac is going to be recognized for songs such as "Brendas Gotta Baby" and "Dear Mama".But its my opinion, but most people would agree with me
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 25 2006, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It Was Written was garbage. Nas has had 3 albums I can call classic: Illmatic (best of all time), Stillmatic, and the Lost Tapes. God's Son was very good but not classic like Illmatic or Stillmatic.</div>Whaaaaaaaaat? It Was Written was not garbage at all. The album gets alot of hate but it's still a solid album. I can drop it from being a classic but not for Gods Son, that album was great. Streets Disciples wasn't bad at all either, it just had a few tracks that would've been better left out but for the most part it was good.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Say what you want....NO ONE has made a bigger impact on the hip hop community like 2Pac did. EVERYONE looks up to him for one reason or another. He was an enigma, and his image still lives on like he never died.</div>Right on, the problem is rappers like Ice Cube and Chuck D were the ones who made Tupac what he is. Cube with his gangster thing and Chuck with his political rapping. Tupac copied their images and used it for his own. While he made a big impact, he wouldn't have done that if not for the legends before him.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz76 @ Oct 25 2006, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The reason why 2pac dont have "classic albums" is cause bitches try to make it and weak rappers like Chamillionare and 50 cent are on it knowing that if Pac was alive he wouldve been beefing with them, not having them on his album. And why else would you listen to rap if its not for the lyrics? If you want a good song with a sick beat pick up some southern rap. But the true hip-hop is 2pac and his lyrics. Yeah Nas is up there, but he dont go as deep as Pac went. Just to show how great 2pac was, my 50+ yr old white english teacher assigned some people to do a biography on 2pac(project about poets). You said he was a hypocrite cause he tried to be a spokesmen for the black community but he would turn around and get in trouble with the law, well, he said himself he doesn't want to be a role-model. Theres a famous video where he says "im from the gutter, I will always be a thug"etc etc. Point is, as a hip-hop fan I want to hear some deep sh*t, and 2pac was deeper and wrote deeper music than Nas ever did. Differene between Pac and Nas is 2pac was a musical and poetic genuiss and Nas isnt. 100 years from now, 2pac is going to be recognized for songs such as "Brendas Gotta Baby" and "Dear Mama".</div>And Nas will be remembered for putting out the best rap album ever. I'd rather take an entire album over a couple of singles. Also, where in the world did you get 50 Cent and Chamillionaire from? Anyways.. Tupacs stuff was deep, sure but Nas was just as deep. Nas' - One Mic makes you feel emotions you've never felt before, at least I do everytime I hear that song. Nas be talking about the hoods of NY and the struggle to make it, samething as Tupac and his thing. Only thing is Nas was better with the lyrics. Your basically saying Tupac had good lyrics because he went deep, thats false. Songs like Dear Mama aren't the best lyrically but it's the emotion you feel from hearing it, like I stated before. Pac maybe a poet but it seems he has alot of times you notice half of his lines don't even rhyme. It's just the flow and voice he put into the song.Nas' stuff is real deep as well, listen to N.Y. State of Mind the lyrics on that song are REAL deep.As for Pac saying he didn't want to be a role model, too bad. Thats something you can't choose to be, if your as popular as him people are gonna look up to you no matter what. The black community looked up to him and he was out being a criminal.
Pac had wwaaayyy more than just a couple singles.......get a f*cking Pac album. And Chamillionare and 50 Cent are on his new album. Nas takes f*cking forever for a goos single to come out. Kobes 81 point game was greatest individual game ever IMO, that doesn't mean hes better than MJ. Dont you want music that moves you? Thats what Pac gives you and thats why hes the greatest.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 25 2006, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Whaaaaaaaaat? It Was Written was not garbage at all. The album gets alot of hate but it's still a solid album. I can drop it from being a classic but not for Gods Son, that album was great. Streets Disciples wasn't bad at all either, it just had a few tracks that would've been better left out but for the most part it was good.</div>I thought it was bad, maybe not garbage, but definately not too good. God's Son was very good, but again, if you're gonna call that a classic then you have to call at least All Eyez On Me a classic. Every album, outside of VERY few have their problems. Stillmatic had quite a few duds, as did God's Son, etc... I hated Streets Disciple. Only good song was Thief's Theme.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Right on, the problem is rappers like Ice Cube and Chuck D were the ones who made Tupac what he is. Cube with his gangster thing and Chuck with his political rapping. Tupac copied their images and used it for his own. While he made a big impact, he wouldn't have done that if not for the legends before him.</div>To relate it to basketball, MJ would not have been what he was without the other great players of the past. That is natural evolution. Sure, 2Pac took things from other rappers, but expressed it in a way never before seen, which is what made him such an influential, and iconic, rapper.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz76 @ Oct 25 2006, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pac had wwaaayyy more than just a couple singles.......get a f*cking Pac album. And Chamillionare and 50 Cent are on his new album. Nas takes f*cking forever for a goos single to come out. Kobes 81 point game was greatest individual game ever IMO, that doesn't mean hes better than MJ. Dont you want music that moves you? Thats what Pac gives you and thats why hes the greatest.</div>How about YOU get a Nas album. I've heard EVERYTHING Pac has to offer, including stuff you haven't even heard of. That goes for you to LakersFan :dribble: . Pac had more then singles but thats just what you said. Nas takes forever to release a good single? Dude, he puts out an album every year or two, just like Tupac and the album, good or bad, ALWAYS has at least 1 hit single. EVERY album, from NY State of Mind, to If I Ruled The World, to One Mic to Nas is Like, there is always at least 1 hit single. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>To relate it to basketball, MJ would not have been what he was without the other great players of the past. That is natural evolution. Sure, 2Pac took things from other rappers, but expressed it in a way never before seen, which is what made him such an influential, and iconic, rapper.</div>Yes and no. MJ had a style of his own, the high flying above the rim play was basically perfected by him. You can say Dr J started it but Jordan perfected it, Vince Carter, Tracy, Dwyane, LeBron all model themself after Jordan, you can't say that about Tupac. He wasn't anywhere near the political rapper Chuck D was, or the story-teller Slick Rick was.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 25 2006, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes and no. MJ had a style of his own, the high flying above the rim play was basically perfected by him. You can say Dr J started it but Jordan perfected it, Vince Carter, Tracy, Dwyane, LeBron all model themself after Jordan, you can't say that about Tupac. He wasn't anywhere near the political rapper Chuck D was, or the story-teller Slick Rick was.</div>2Pac had his own style as well. MJ was a mix of Elgin Baylor, Dr J, etc... He added his own spice to it, as 2Pac did with his music. You can say Chuck D was a bette rplitical rapper or Slick Rick was a better story teller....but does the average person know those names? Do you see people with them on their T-shirts everyday? Everyone knows who 2Pac was, and I see more shirts with him on it than anyone else. People discuss him more than anyone else. There are more TV shows about him than anyone else. More rappers talk about him as an inspiration than just about anyone else, living or dead. If you looked rap up in a dictionary his picture would be there. He was just that big of a phenomonan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>2Pac had his own style as well. MJ was a mix of Elgin Baylor, Dr J, etc... He added his own spice to it, as 2Pac did with his music. You can say Chuck D was a bette rplitical rapper or Slick Rick was a better story teller....but does the average person know those names? Do you see people with them on their T-shirts everyday? Everyone knows who 2Pac was, and I see more shirts with him on it than anyone else. People discuss him more than anyone else. There are more TV shows about him than anyone else. More rappers talk about him as an inspiration than just about anyone else, living or dead. If you looked rap up in a dictionary his picture would be there. He was just that big of a phenomonan.</div>Anyone who knows anything about hip-hop knows who Chuck D and Slick Rick are. Do you see many people with a Dr J jersey? Elgin Baylor? Magic? No. Mainly because Tupac and Jordan where from newer era's, Chuck and Slick were all 80's stuff, I doubt anyone will want to wear that. Not only that but besides all the promotion and the whole BS with his death just took it another level further. He was a good rapper, no doubt. But is also the most overrated of all time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyone who knows anything about hip-hop knows who Chuck D and Slick Rick are. Do you see many people with a Dr J jersey? Elgin Baylor? Magic? No. Mainly because Tupac and Jordan where from newer era's, Chuck and Slick were all 80's stuff, I doubt anyone will want to wear that. Not only that but besides all the promotion and the whole BS with his death just took it another level further. He was a good rapper, no doubt. But is also the most overrated of all time.</div>Yes, anyone who knows hip hop....EVERYONE knows who 2Pac is.Dr J in his prime was in the '70's, and Elgin in the '60's. MJ retired just a few years ago. That is MUCH different than the 5-10 year difference between 2Pac's shooting and Slick Rick/Chuck D's prime.
Uhm...I have gotten Nas albums. And first hand I can tell you he isnt better than Pacand he might have hits, but when Pac put out a song, its usually a instant classic.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, anyone who knows hip hop....EVERYONE knows who 2Pac is.</div>You'd be surprised how many people know hip-hop, Public Enemy went platinum about 4 times and gold 3 times I believe. Anyways, that doesn't really matter. Everyone who listens to rap nowadays knows who Young Joc is, that doesn't make him any good though. I doubt many non rap fans know who KRS One and Rakim are but again that doesn't make them any worse. The jersey thing is just getting stupid, forget that. Point is, no one would wear a shirt of an 80's rapper, especially nowadays.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz76 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Uhm...I have gotten Nas albums. And first hand I can tell you he isnt better than Pacand he might have hits, but when Pac put out a song, its usually a instant classic.</div>Like what hits? He has a good amount of big hits that were total garbage, How Do You Want It for example. Your not giving much of an arguement here, your just saying "Tupac is better because I say so", gotta come harder then that. By the way, NY State of Mind 1 & 2, Nas is Like, The Message and One Mic > practically any Tupac song. The emotion and lyrics from those tracks are just unreal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 26 2006, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You'd be surprised how many people know hip-hop, Public Enemy went platinum about 4 times and gold 3 times I believe. Anyways, that doesn't really matter. Everyone who listens to rap nowadays knows who Young Joc is, that doesn't make him any good though. I doubt many non rap fans know who KRS One and Rakim are but again that doesn't make them any worse. The jersey thing is just getting stupid, forget that. Point is, no one would wear a shirt of an 80's rapper, especially nowadays.</div>Will there be movies, VH1 specials, MTV specials, and coastal wars 10 years from now because of Young Joc?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Like what hits? He has a good amount of big hits that were total garbage, How Do You Want It for example. Your not giving much of an arguement here, your just saying "Tupac is better because I say so", gotta come harder then that. By the way, NY State of Mind 1 & 2, Nas is Like, The Message and One Mic > practically any Tupac song. The emotion and lyrics from those tracks are just unreal.</div>Nas Is Like isn't a great song (IMO). But Halftime, Memory Lane and NY State of Mind, all from Illmatic, are better than any 2Pac song.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 25 2006, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How about YOU get a Nas album. I've heard EVERYTHING Pac has to offer, including stuff you haven't even heard of. That goes for you to LakersFan :dribble: . Pac had more then singles but thats just what you said. Nas takes forever to release a good single? Dude, he puts out an album every year or two, just like Tupac and the album, good or bad, ALWAYS has at least 1 hit single. EVERY album, from NY State of Mind, to If I Ruled The World, to One Mic to Nas is Like, there is always at least 1 hit single. Yes and no. MJ had a style of his own, the high flying above the rim play was basically perfected by him. You can say Dr J started it but Jordan perfected it, Vince Carter, Tracy, Dwyane, LeBron all model themself after Jordan, you can't say that about Tupac. He wasn't anywhere near the political rapper Chuck D was, or the story-teller Slick Rick was.</div> Like what? That is just impossible, I just checked and I have alltogether 524 tupac songs on my ipod. This includes all his albums, alot of mixtapes, Bootlegs,and just unreleased sh*t. Please, don't ever say that you have heard more pac songs than me...Good arguments by the way with Nitro. Your little debate is entertaining.
For you people think that tupac and Nas were enemies of sorts because of how pac portrayed Nas in some songs...Thats just how pac was...like shock g said, pac didnt only have a plan b, he had plan c, d, e, f, and g,I remember reading an interview with mopreme, in the interview he said pac used to bump illmatic in his ride...just blast that sh*t....he said pac loved that album, just from that, you can tell he had respect for nas as an artist, so I can see why tupac would call nas the "ring leader" because he saw nas as the biggest threat to his shine. As being the only rap artist near the level he was at artistically. Thats the way nas saw it to, out his own mouth, he said pac went at him because he respected him the most. I think they admired each other for different reasons......nas liked pac because he knew pac had that fire in him, that revolutionary spirit...being fearless but also a thinking man at the same time....pac liked nas just because he was so raw and intelligent on the mic....he had a message in his music, like pac...so pac respected that that.....pac was just letting nas know that he knew nas was a powerful force to be reckoned with.....but at the same time, pac was like "im going to test you man because I aim to be the best...what you got?"......they're both very similar if you look at them closely....pac just had more fire, but nas being being a lot more crafty.....I think thats why nas took pacs death so hard....I know he saw not only a true comrade in pac, but he saw himself in pac as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 26 2006, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nas Is Like isn't a great song (IMO). But Halftime, Memory Lane and NY State of Mind, all from Illmatic, are better than any 2Pac song.</div>I just lost any credibility I had for you there, Nas is Like is one of the dopest songs EVER.Lakersfan do you have: http://futurrappeur.f.skyblog.com/pics/60139531.jpghttp://www.fliphopentertainment.com/I/web%...kaveli2001B.jpghttp://www.picvalley.net/u/13/12080_643.JPGThose three albums are very rare, I doubt you have them.
Heatfan and Nitro, good debate. Here is my opinion...I think that Tupac was one of the most known rappers of all time. All his scandals and political rap inspired people and really helped him become as famous as he became. But Heatfan where you said he took the political style from Chuck D, that's somewhat false. Remember this, 2Pac's mother was a black panther so he was around politics since he took his first breath. Why is 2pac so overrated? Because he was the FIRST rapper to say his mom was single, a crackhead, a politician for the African-American community while not even knowing his real father. All these rappers nowadays seem to mimic that. I think that is why Pac is so big. He's admired for truthfully growing up that way and becoming what he was, one of the best rappers and most known of all time.I will agree with you Heatfan in saying that Nas is untouchable lyrically. I think something that impacted Pac's career and probably gave him so much hype sadly, was his death. Before he died he was famous and all but nothing like he is now, he is a household name that has been dead for a decade.So there's mine. 2Pac was one of the best ever but he's more of people's favorites becuase you can relate to him so much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Oct 26 2006, 04:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lakersfan do you have: http://futurrappeur.f.skyblog.com/pics/60139531.jpghttp://www.fliphopentertainment.com/I/web%...kaveli2001B.jpghttp://www.picvalley.net/u/13/12080_643.JPGThose three albums are very rare, I doubt you have them.</div> The Gridlockd Sountrack? Really? What tracks are on it?The second link doesn't work.And no I haven't heard this last one.
