Big news, Taft's committing draft suicide & GS already made a promise

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe he's not killing his stock as badly as most of us thought.NBADraft.net</div>
Another internet source... hmm....

BTW, Foyle is pretty bad for an 8 year vet at starter and I can see why fans are frustrated with his re-signing because despite his prowess in the shotblocking department, the guy can barely rebound the ball, let alone catch it, he can hardly make a layup/dunk, puts the ball on the floor when he doesn't have to, and he bites on the stupidest pump fakes. Foyle is barely a basketball player. The fact we can win playing soft inside and without a banger and enforcer in the paint, just shows how good we could be if we had a solid 4 and better defensive/scoring 5 (Rasheed Wallace level at least).

 

The slams on Foyle have a point-but are out of perspective. There are a dozen bigs on NBA benches with as many negatives and no plus side of note. Adonal is not screwing up all the time...just more than I like,and yet I have seen many times he did some very positive things. Realistically,if he was so awful,Murph would have been shifted over to C as the regular. Foyle played better near the end,I think he dropped a bit of weight and got in the flow from regular action. Baron penetrating also resulted in Adonal getting the ball in favorable position. A few teams wish their big guy would run the floor,set picks,hustle,defend,like Foyle.

Adonal does not have natural basketball instincts,that's obvious,and it is not a rare situation with big men. Lack of such instincts is part of Taft's problem. You can look lazier if there is an extra delay while you figure out what's going on. The relative shortage of 6-10 people in the gene pool means guys with poor basketball instincts get jobs in the NBA. There's millions of 6-1 guys-so to get even a look in the pros a 6-1 guy needs good BB instincts,decent overall skills.

I expect both Foyle and Murphy will come back next year more physically tuned to a fast pace style. The W's wanted them bulked extra to compensate for us not having found the big aircraft carrier. They probably went a bit too far,and then each had a spell of playing less,which took away a step.

A little side note-one site claims Diogu and Simien both measured as 6-9 in recent workouts. A bit of a surprise.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Another internet source... hmm....

BTW, Foyle is pretty bad for an 8 year vet at starter and I can see why fans are frustrated with his re-signing because despite his prowess in the shotblocking department, the guy can barely rebound the ball, let alone catch it, he can hardly make a layup/dunk, puts the ball on the floor when he doesn't have to, and he bites on the stupidest pump fakes. Foyle is barely a basketball player. The fact we can win playing soft inside and without a banger and enforcer in the paint, just shows how good we could be if we had a solid 4 and better defensive/scoring 5 (Rasheed Wallace level at least).</div>

Considering our options at the time we were a little limited. Without Damp and Foyle we would have had NOTHING at center. Mullin needed someone. He was not going to pay Damp and he was getting out bid on Foyle. Plus every fan here needs to admit that when Foyle got consistent minutes he produced. We all felt maybe it was time for Foyle to get compensated for paying his dues on the bench for 7 years. Now he came into camp injured and thus out of shape and he never did produced the way we all expected him to produce. I just hope Biedrens can earn the starting spot next year and Foyle backs him up...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">Considering our options at the time we were a little limited. Without Damp and Foyle we would have had NOTHING at center. Mullin needed someone. He was not going to pay Damp and he was getting out bid on Foyle. Plus every fan here needs to admit that when Foyle got consistent minutes he produced. We all felt maybe it was time for Foyle to get compensated for paying his dues on the bench for 7 years. Now he came into camp injured and thus out of shape and he never did produced the way we all expected him to produce. I just hope Biedrens can earn the starting spot next year and Foyle backs him up...</div>
Even if we didn't have Foyle and we lost him to FA, there could have been cheaper solutions until we drafted our "franchise center of the future". Heck, I would have been fine with Vladimir Stepania or Zendon Hamilton or some CBA or NBDL allstar.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Realistically,if he was so awful,Murph would have been shifted over to C as the regular. </div>

Murphy will never ever be able to play center. Ever.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">Murphy will never ever be able to play center. Ever.</div>
Well,he did play C often this past year,which let another shooter get on the floor. Some teams don't have a major inside threat so the D is less of an issue. We played games where it was all run and score and we put the ball in the hole more,even if we didn't shu down anyone. Seriously,Murph is a better option than Jake Voskuhl or Diop or some CBA guy who's skinny or slow and has no tools. Murphy gets boards and scores,so there's part of the whole.....and we had no option of getting a C with the whole package,which is why Foyle got his deal. Let's not panic here,in the last segment of the season the W's were damn good.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Foyle does play help defense but he does it too much. It's idiotic the situations he'll try and swat a shot. This leaves an offensive rebound every time he overplays.

2. Calling him a son of a bitch isn't a slur. It's not racial/hateful so I think the controversy surrounding my "shocking" comments can start to die down.

3. Foyle absolutely is garbage. He's a nice guy blah blah blah I'm not talking about what kind of man he is. I didn't even blame him for signing that contract. I blame him for not even improving from last year to this past year or the little improvement he's shown from a few years ago. He still has the basketball IQ of a potato. When he doesn't get minutes he quietly complained on his retarded website and to the press.

Even when Baron got here he still wanted more touches inside. The decisions he makes on the basketball court are completely idiotic. Do you think I'm enhancing this story to make myself sound good? Go watch some of the tapes this year of that disaster Adonal Foyle. I TIVO'd a lot of games and I've watched that guy messing up in slow motion in 1/4th speed & 1/15th speed.

Before you say Foyle deserves to start in this league, go watch again the games from this season. I dare you.</div>


I'm pretty sure if you survey the owners in this league they;d disagree with you on your assesment of Foyle. On that we agree to disagree. As for his helpside defense, if he doesn't go over to help out on Murphy's guy, then people will rip him for not trying to utilize his main strength, shotblocking.

I never said anything about racial, but calling him a S.O.B. absolutely is a personal attack on Foyle. Try calling him one to his face and see how he reacts.

You can rip him about complaining, but when Davis came, his game did improve 1000%. I went to 12 games last year, and watched every one of those games again when I got gome, watched many of the other games twice as well. Leave your personal attacks off the board. Saying you think he can't play a lick of basketball is one thing (which we obviously disagree on), calling him a S.O.B. is something esle.

Foyle never will be an all-star in this league, but this huge contract you are complaining about is not the contract of an all-star. It's the contract of a starting center in this league, and if you were to put Foyle next to a solid 4 on 80% of the teams in the east he'd be a candidate for 2nd or 3rd team all-defense in the NBA. Of course this is my humble opinion, but once again, it's hard to rip a guy that isn't even given the tools to help him succeed.

Of course complaining on his website was pretty weak, but I like that he has the confidence to try to prove that he is worthy. The guy never gives up, and constantly works on his game. He has hands of stone, and isn't very athletic, but you cannot watch games this season and say that he hasn't worked hard on improving his game year in and year out.

Like I said before, we agree to disagree.... just ease up on the personal insults.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm pretty sure if you survey the owners in this league they;d disagree with you on your assesment of Foyle. On that we agree to disagree. As for his helpside defense, if he doesn't go over to help out on Murphy's guy, then people will rip him for not trying to utilize his main strength, shotblocking.

I never said anything about racial, but calling him a S.O.B. absolutely is a personal attack on Foyle. Try calling him one to his face and see how he reacts.

You can rip him about complaining, but when Davis came, his game did improve 1000%. I went to 12 games last year, and watched every one of those games again when I got gome, watched many of the other games twice as well. Leave your personal attacks off the board. Saying you think he can't play a lick of basketball is one thing (which we obviously disagree on), calling him a S.O.B. is something esle.

Foyle never will be an all-star in this league, but this huge contract you are complaining about is not the contract of an all-star. It's the contract of a starting center in this league, and if you were to put Foyle next to a solid 4 on 80% of the teams in the east he'd be a candidate for 2nd or 3rd team all-defense in the NBA. Of course this is my humble opinion, but once again, it's hard to rip a guy that isn't even given the tools to help him succeed.

Of course complaining on his website was pretty weak, but I like that he has the confidence to try to prove that he is worthy. The guy never gives up, and constantly works on his game. He has hands of stone, and isn't very athletic, but you cannot watch games this season and say that he hasn't worked hard on improving his game year in and year out.

Like I said before, we agree to disagree.... just ease up on the personal insults.</div>
I agree with you Cohanhater. Foyle is never going to be a star. His career high in points is 20. He was averaging about 25 ppg, 14 rpg, 2 apg(smuthin like that) and 7 bpg. He was going to be incredible. Buyt he didn't make it to live up to his excpectations.

 

In my youth,I could seem a decent BB player in a 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 get up game,but in a 5-on-5,I pretty much sucked,being short without range or a good dribble,and finding it tough to mentally deal with the extra variables. A big exception was a few games where I was on a team with a guy who later was a starting point at St Marys,I'd get open in a good spot and the ball arrived just right,swish. The difference was huge.
Foyle like many raw big men went through long periods of getting a few minutes here and there,went through a lot of different coaches and teammates. As typically the least skilled scorer we'd have in a game,he did not get the ball in ideal situations,but as a last resort when a move got stopped or nobody got open.
We didn't have a point real committed to getting him the best pass. He'd get 4-5 minutes,about enough to get in the flow,and back to the bench. A guy without great "BB IQ" or instincts needs to get SOME periods of 10-15 min on the floor to really make gains and plug-in the skills he has picked up. Over the years the W's have tended to shun the raw bigs,think they can just spend a lottery pick and get a ripe starter. When the guy has rough edges,they'd go plan B-assume he will get game skills in practice eventually. The Bulls threw Curry and Chandler into a sink or swim situation..and it worked. Jerome James has become an effective big from playing. Minutes have helped Dalembert,Magliore,Heywood move ahead while Diop has regressed having played so seldom he probably lost skills. Kwame B has other stuff going on,but also has never had a real clear role.

Foyle IS a pretty good rebounder. His other roles,setting picks,blocking shots,sometimes mean he's not getting much chance to get a rebound position,block out,etc. Likewise,rebounds are a priority for Murphy and he sacrafices some other things to get the edge on the boards,and I think the team wants each to emphasize his main skill. In the "post-Baron" era,Foyle had games with +10 boards and I think was around 20 once. Adonal has good wheels,quickness,but not good hands,can't be dribbling in a crowd. Foyle,or any player like him,pushes the edge of what he can do-and that's how skills are improved...and how you blow a play in a fashion that generates some of these harsh comments.
Relatively,Biedrens has good hands and pretty good instincts. He is still short on experiance and is pretty light for C,he also has yet to display a midrange J. The Foyle-Biedrens combo was pretty effective during the GOOD segment of the season.

The Warriors should find an additional C type,ideally a guy who comes cheap yet can develop enough to get used and contribute. I am wary of spending a top 10 pick on a questionable "project" who has a 50-50 chance to be as good as Foyle...in 2 or 3 years. I'd use a round 2 for such a player,no problem.

 

Well, I am content with 2nd half of Foyle. Do we want to upgrade center? Yes. Is he overpaid and will his salary hurt us in near future? Yes. Do I want Dampier over Foyle, especially with Davis? Absolutely. But, like Cohanhater said, 8 mils per year is about the average salary, and if you want to have a center, who does little more than providing 6 fouls, you have to pay what we are paying to Foyle. Also, it's ridiculously hard to get a decent center this league, so our chance of getting a decent center out of draft is very slim to say the least. Then, can we outright get rid of Foyle? The answer is also no. Biedrins is capable of picking up 6 fouls in 6 seconds, and Murphy at center is not an option either. So, what we have is probably the best thing we have for quite a while. In second half, Foyle secured the middle pretty well, and brought much much much needed inside presence for us. And, that's a part of why we rolled in 2nd part. So, as long as he doesn't fall flat like this year's 1st season, I am ok with him.

That has been said, over years, fans did overprotected Foyle while bashed Dampier like there is no tomorrow, when they both were equally injury prones, had hand of stones, and Foyle's best year was worse than Dampier's worst year. In every aspects, Foyle was inferior center than Dampier, but just because he hustles, fans cut awful a lot of slack for Foyle...

 

Wow great posts. 'nuff said.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said anything about racial, but calling him a S.O.B. absolutely is a personal attack on Foyle. Try calling him one to his face and see how he reacts.
</div>

Go to a sports bar and watch the language people use regarding sports figures. The fact that your offended at the phrase "son of a bitch" is actually very funny. I meant no personal harm from it and didn't mean to offend you but it's not a personal attack. Younger people even refer to their friends as that so maybe it's an age gap issue that the older crowd hasn't adjusted to.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">Go to a sports bar and watch the language people use regarding sports figures. The fact that your offended at the phrase "son of a bitch" is actually very funny. I meant no personal harm from it and didn't mean to offend you but it's not a personal attack. Younger people even refer to their friends as that so maybe it's an age gap issue that the older crowd hasn't adjusted to.</div>

I'm not that old (28). And I understand what you are saying. But in this forum, I expect that because you have the opportunity to chose your words before hitting the 'Submit Rely' button, that you'd be able to say what parts of his game you dislike instead of resorting to name calling. I just don't want this board to turn into the ESPN board. Maybe I'm a little sinsitive about that because I enjoy this Forum more than just about anything on the web.

 

I think online, it's always tough to construe the tone of voice, but at least we know now where each of us is coming from now that we've discussed it. It's probably not an age thing, but just a communication thing. I can see where Upsidedownside is coming from on this, especially since I choose some words in the past that can be interpreted a certain way. My earlier rants about those #$@&*%'s like Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy on defense make me sound angry when I'm just being "passionate", dammit.
J/K

CohanHater, as long as we have mature, diverse, quality discussions by all you guys and gals contributing right now, we'll still be rockin'. At least we haven't resorted to calling each other "idiot" back and forth, idiot J/K.

So back to the draft, how would we feel about Andray Blatche? On nbadraft.net they have him up to #16. Before it was something like #29 or #30. If he was projected to stay down that far, it would have been nice to split our picks into Denver's #20 and #22 and grab him at a late pick.

Andray Blatche + Ersan Ilyasova or Rudy Fernandez, Angelo Gigli, Andrew Bynum, Wayne Simien, Jarret Jack (if he falls), Ike Diogu. We can use #22 to play it risky or play it safe. There's a lot of good talent out there I think, just nothing we're in dire need of. Projects can always slip and as far as small forward projects go. I think there had to been a reason why Mully went out to Italy to check out Angelo Gigli during the regular season and why Ersan Iyasova was so hyped up and is mysterious in finding information or any video footage on.

 

It's so hard to tell with the young bigs. Whomever we get, I just hope he can play with his back to the hoop on offense, and hopefully be bright enough to handle team defense.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I think online, it's always tough to construe the tone of voice, but at least we know now where each of us is coming from now that we've discussed it. It's probably not an age thing, but just a communication thing. I can see where Upsidedownside is coming from on this, especially since I choose some words in the past that can be interpreted a certain way. My earlier rants about those #$@&*%'s like Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy on defense make me sound angry when I'm just being "passionate", dammit.
J/K

CohanHater, as long as we have mature, diverse, quality discussions by all you guys and gals contributing right now, we'll still be rockin'. At least we haven't resorted to calling each other "idiot" back and forth, idiot J/K.

So back to the draft, how would we feel about Andray Blatche? On nbadraft.net they have him up to #16. Before it was something like #29 or #30. If he was projected to stay down that far, it would have been nice to split our picks into Denver's #20 and #22 and grab him at a late pick.

Andray Blatche + Ersan Ilyasova or Rudy Fernandez, Angelo Gigli, Andrew Bynum, Wayne Simien, Jarret Jack (if he falls), Ike Diogu. We can use #22 to play it risky or play it safe. There's a lot of good talent out there I think, just nothing we're in dire need of. Projects can always slip and as far as small forward projects go. I think there had to been a reason why Mully went out to Italy to check out Angelo Gigli during the regular season and why Ersan Iyasova was so hyped up and is mysterious in finding information or any video footage on.</div>
I like that idea f tradign the 9 for the 20 and 22. But my only problem with that is that we can grab Granger with the 9. He is pretty good and could be a great backup for whoever stays at Sf. I have my heart set on him. I even had a dream that we got him

But if we get the 20 and 22 picks, we could get Diogu and maybe even Rudy. Both are good prospects and are somewhat local. So if we can nab one of the, Monty knows how they can play and can help them adjust. What do you guys think of Martell Webester?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">I like that idea f tradign the 9 for the 20 and 22. But my only problem with that is that we can grab Granger with the 9. He is pretty good and could be a great backup for whoever stays at Sf. I have my heart set on him. I even had a dream that we got him

But if we get the 20 and 22 picks, we could get Diogu and maybe even Rudy. Both are good prospects and are somewhat local. So if we can nab one of the, Monty knows how they can play and can help them adjust. What do you guys think of Martell Webester?</div>
You like it? I'm kinda iffy about the idea now. The problem about dropping so low is it may backfire and we may end up getting role players rather than potential draft sleepers and it's hard to determine who exactly will be left that's worth taking. Diogu I think had a good chance of slipping, but I don't know now. His workouts have been pushing him up higher. I guess the idea behind splitting the picks is it would allow us to go really risky (Andrei Kirilenko was #24 in the 1999 draft, Tony Parker was #28, Tayshaun Prince fell to #23, Mo Pete at #21, a lot of interesting picks last year as well in that 20 to 30 range like Victor Khryapa, 7'5 Pavel Podkolzine), also let's not forget past drafts that should have had at least one or three more 2nd rounders show up in the first (Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Marko Jaric, etc). Nenad Krstic of the Nets is putting up numbers and he was a late round one and Primoz Brezec is looking okay with that second chance with the Bobcats. But the downside is we may end up getting a sure-fire bust if it's Dalibor Bagaric, Mamadou N'diaye, Jake Tsakalidas who were all 7 foot something projects without skills (pretty much what we could be looking at right now at #9 if we're going for a big).

Granger I like a lot, Martell Webster looks like he could be a solid pro based on his rave reviews. Rudy Fernandez, I think is interesting. It's between him and Leni Roko Ukic. I think Rudy is more of a prototypical two guard and Leni Roko Ukic is more of a scoring point guard with playmaking abilities. Both are about the same size, both have long wingspans, both have very polished offensive games. I think Ukic would be an interesting guy to take on even though we don't really need him. ... or he could end up being a worse version of Jamal Crawford that isn't good enough for the one and is understrength for the shooting guard spot. The idea of having a bigger, faster offense where we can send in our big guards to step around smaller defenders or post them up would be huge. Of course we'd be taking away time from Derek Fisher and Pietrus, and not really ensuring we'd have better playmaking and defense off the bench.

Another reason for splitting the picks might be to make up for using next year's pick and/or Philly's pick (acquired from the Dallas trade for Dampier) as incentives to take our salary deadweights away. BYC no longer applies to Adonal Foyle and in Biedrins 3rd year, he may be ready to start for good. Hard to say where Philly will go barring injuries or trades... Also if we'll need those picks for some reason or another. Trading the #9 right now might be better for us if it weren't for Foyle's BYC2 status... doh!

 

The Clips have pick 12 and one of rd 2's highest picks. I think Dwayne Jones-IF he stays in,would be the steal among big men,and salim can become a bargain as a backup point G..and both seem to be early rd 2. Diogu won't last past 15. Not certain he'd last till 12. If not,Blatche,Frye,Bynum(?) and Simien can be options. I REALLY want to get 2 or more guys who add useful talent,can evolve into really good players,are NOT going to be flops. Blatche,as a hs guy is a bit scary for me,but he has been a beast on the boards,a versatile scorer and is smart enough to adapt and hustle. He easily can become a Jermaine O'neal. He's a 6-11 or 7-0 guy who runs the floor well,which fits our plan,and he's suited to PF,but has C potential too. Basically,the BEST HS senior big man in the USA,tends to be a pretty good player.

I still like Diogu,Granger,at 9 as a "sensible" approach. Either improves us on D,while having an impact in many areas. Neither will be a dumb SOB we want to dump a year later. Being an old SoB myself,I get to say that,but I save it mainly for Sprewell.

My radical move would be trade up,with the Blazers and attempt to get Gerald Green. No draft pick is EVER sure to be what you expect,and yet this guy has all kinds of things going that just say "Superstar". I don't feel half as good about Marvin W. Marvin can't get into blocking out. Marvin thinks he can take it inside on Sheldon Williams (schooltime,kid!) with no jukes no ferocity...a concept proven wrong 4 times in one game...so he's a slow learner. Green,a wiry swingman and 3 pt sharpshooter had 13 boards a game. That would have led the Ncaa. He shot 60% from the arc,Salim's 52% was amazing,he had 7 assists a game,more than R Felton,33 pt per...well,it was HS,but so were the stats for Lebron,Kobe and KG. Green can actually out jump J Rich...ain't that freaky?

 

I'm sure I probably asked this question last year, but what the hell...I'm always going to think about it at some point every year 'round draft time:

How many of you who want the Warriors to take a conservative, sensible approach to the draft also repeatedly criticized St. Jean for drafting Fuller and Foyle instead of Kobe and T-Mac (even though Kwan has pointed out repeatedly that St. Jean wasn't the one making the picks)?

If ever there was a time to make a gutsy, risky pick, this is the year.