Marbury's a bad example...he doenst play defense and doesnt get along with anyone. Better example would be Luke Ridnour, Kirk Hinrich, Sam Cassell or Joe Johnson. Would a Detroit team with Joe Johnson at the point be less than the #1 seed? Would Detroit not be a contender for the championship with Sam Cassell manning the 1? In my personal opinion Billups is better than all 4 of them, but not by THAT much. Those 4 players arent even considered the cream of the PG spot and yet its not a huge step down from Billups to Hinrich/Cassell/Johnson/Ridnour. Billups hasnt proven he's an MVP. He's hit some clutch shots and had some big performances in games, but he hasnt made his teammates better. Rasheed, big Ben and Rip are already good...Tayshaun is already a terrific defensive player and role player, and i dont think any of that would change if Billups were to up and leave. That said all you can do is speculate at the idea. Fact is that Billups has a very good starting lineup around him..has for years. Fact is that the bench knows their role and isnt as bad as NTC187 makes it out to be. Fact is that the Detriot team Billups has been a part of has always had top notch NBA coaching. This year Billups has played well for the team that most exected to run away with the title. Nash lost 2 starters in the offseason, then 1 more and one of the new starters at the beginning of the year. He's playing through much more adversity and he's leading his team to where they are. If someone had of asked you at the beginning of the year where the Suns would be with a linup of Nash, Marion, Jame Jones and Raja Bell, with Diaw playing the post..they'd probably say 8th seed or out of the playoffs. They're a 2 seed though. MVP in my mind honourable mentions to Lebron, Kobe, Dirk and Billups...though thats the order i feel it should go in as far as runners up goes. you take Lebron, Dirk, Nash, Kobe off their teams and replace them with a 10 day contract guy, that team drops 6-8 spots in the standings. Could you say the same about Detroit? Sure they'd be worse...they'd probably be a 2 or 3 seed i'd say. Thats what seperates Billups from the guys i mentioned.
NTC187 If you were a GM for a team that wanted and needed to win THAT year, and you had the first overall pick, would you take Billups over Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Nash?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>since</u> aquiring Billups we have had 5 back to back 50+ win seasons. </div> Detroit's record 2001-2002(the year before Billups) was 50-32, they got knocked out by the Celtics in the 2nd round of the playoffs. In 2002-2003 they added Mehmet Okur, Billups, Richard Hamilton and drafted Prince. They finished that season with a record of 50-32, exact same as the prevous year. They did however go one round deeper in the playoffs before getting loosing getting swept out by the Nets. Tell me know how you're quote A) is true means that Billups was the key to advancing 1 round further and not Okur+Hamilton+Prince C) means Billups is the MVP this season
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Believe it or not Billups could be replaced with a different point guard. He is a great assest to the team but he isn't as giant a factor as most think. So what if he is averaging X stats Marbury gets X statsas well but he isn't winning games.</div> Believe or not, any one on any team could be replaced with a different point guard. Simply put, you're a moron if you think Detroit without Billups wouldnt be a big factor. Actually I'm shocked I've even read those words, I mean how stupid can you be to say that Detroit, without its floor general, wouldnt be a big factor! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can use the same defense that you used for Billups, but but but Marbury does his job its not his fault his teamates don't come through......puh pleaase.</div> Stephon Marbury is averaging 16, 2, 6. The thing is, Marbury doesnt do his job, he is disruptive, is embroiled in an ongoing feud with his coach and has shown with every team he has ever been with, that he isnt a leader. Not to mention he is playing on a team of players who laugh and joke around after a loss. End of story. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He will get the blame for his teamates doing bad because he is the floor general. He is the leader he is the one that has to be there day in and day out making his teamates better by giving them excellent looks, "easy points", etc. just like Nash does. This is Billups fault for the same reason it would be LeBron, Kobe, and Nash's fault if their teamate missed the game winner.</div> This doesnt even make sense. First of all, Billups does do those things, second, you cant blame a loss on your PG unless its his fault. That loss was not his fault, if you want to blame anyone, blame Tony Delk for missing those free throws or Antonio McDyess for missing the tip in after the Delk miss. Billups helped bring Detroit back from 15 points down, and they lost by 2, I'd say that he did his job that day. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Billups hasnt proven he's an MVP. He's hit some clutch shots and had some big performances in games, but he hasnt made his teammates better. Rasheed, big Ben and Rip are already good...Tayshaun is already a terrific defensive player and role player, and i dont think any of that would change if Billups were to up and leave.</div> Hasnt proven he's an MVP? First of all to your comment on his stats. Well then I guess Nash is out of the running, since 19, 3, 8 arnt MVP numbers, Nash averages 19, 4, 10, so I guess hes out. Dont the 2 finals appearances, 1 championship, all star spot (bringing this up since most judge this for some stupid reason) and finals MVP dont ammount to anything? How much does Billups have to prove before some one gives him some damn credit? You're right though, Sheed, Ben, Rip & Prince are already good, but the thing with them (apart from maybe Rip), is they're not great at creating their own scoring options, they need some one there to help them out, which is what Chauncey does and is another reason why he is such a vital asset to the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That said all you can do is speculate at the idea. Fact is that Billups has a very good starting lineup around him..has for years. Fact is that the bench knows their role and isnt as bad as NTC187 makes it out to be. Fact is that the Detriot team Billups has been a part of has always had top notch NBA coaching. This year Billups has played well for the team that most exected to run away with the title. Nash lost 2 starters in the offseason, then 1 more and one of the new starters at the beginning of the year. He's playing through much more adversity and he's leading his team to where they are. If someone had of asked you at the beginning of the year where the Suns would be with a linup of Nash, Marion, Jame Jones and Raja Bell, with Diaw playing the post..they'd probably say 8th seed or out of the playoffs. They're a 2 seed though.</div> Should we punish Billups for playing with a good team? As I pointed out, every MVP ever has played with a great team and has usually come from the top 3 teams in the league (which would mean Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas). Again, punish him for having a good coach? He's played through 3 coaching changes in 4 seasons. The thing with the suns line up this season, is guys like Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, James Jones etc. came from teams where they were warming the bench, seeing very little time. In other words, they're a team that needs to prove somthing. Answer me this, if you were in Boris Diaws position, where you warmed the bench for 2 years, then had a chance to start for one of the leagues premier teams, would you play your heart out? or just coast through, taking it easy until the team is back to normal? I know what I would be doing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you were a GM for a team that wanted and needed to win THAT year, and you had the first overall pick, would you take Billups over Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Nash?</div> No I wouldnt take Billups over those other guys, but I'm sure if you asked me the same question before last season with Steve Nash in place, I would've said I'll take the other guys over him aswell. However, this has no real bearing over who I think should be MVP of a season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Detroit's record 2001-2002(the year before Billups) was 50-32, they got knocked out by the Celtics in the 2nd round of the playoffs. In 2002-2003 they added Mehmet Okur, Billups, Richard Hamilton and drafted Prince. They finished that season with a record of 50-32, exact same as the prevous year. They did however go one round deeper in the playoffs before getting loosing getting swept out by the Nets.</div> You are right, I apologize, I misread the years/records when I was checking up. However, notice how Detroits entire starting 5 changed in 2002-2003 (apart from Big Ben), yet they still managed to notch up a 50+ win season, remind you of anyone? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tell me know how you're quote A) is true means that Billups was the key to advancing 1 round further and not Okur+Hamilton+Prince C) means Billups is the MVP this season</div> A) Answer listed above. You're right again, we cant prove that, just like we cant prove how bad Phoenix might be without Nash, or how bad the the Lakers might be without Kobe. C) Why does Chauncey deserve it this season? Because he is averaging good numbers around the same as Nash who everyone thinks deserves the award, he has taken the role of the general and our offensive game runs through him which has helped lead Detroit to the best record in the league, he has 13 wins over Steve Nash and this has been Chauncey Billups best season on record. All while playing under a new coach. I think thats everything, lol.
If Billups wins it, it should be a bigger "controversy" then last year's picking of Steve Nash. Case in point; take Billups out of the Pistons and they still have a playoff worthy, if not contending (although that could be a stretch, but theyare in the East for god's sake) team on thier hands. Take Nash out of the Suns and you have a decent team that really struggles without him. As Hubie said on TV, Nash is the engine of that Suns team. Billups might be the engine of the Pistons but even if his engine were to crash, the car that is the Pistons would keep on going, although they may fall to a certain degree. I really fail to see how Billups should win MVP....I mean, I know he's more important to the Pistons then say the likes of Tayshaun but I fail to see how Billups is worth more to the Pistons then Rip? Or even Ben? The Pistons are the Pistons because they thrive off the ability to make ONE-ANOTHER better, rather then one person making the whole team better. Billups does not make thier team better; he doesn't make them worse. They are what they are because they play with no defined roles. My belief is that the MVP race comes down to three names: Kobe, Lebron and Nash. I would include Dirk as well but if it was down to who I think has the greatest chances to actually win it, it's those three, with Kobe or Nash most likely getting the nod. It's a very tight race, unfortunetly, I really don't feel Billups would be deserving of the award over someone like Nash. And as for Billups vs. Nash, personally I would perfer Nash for I believe (my opinion) that he is a better shooter (he's clearly one of the best in the NBA) then Billups, although Big Shot is essentially clutcher. However, Billups can't pass like Nash does, nor can he orchestrate an offense as beautifully as Nash either. Billups is more of a scoring point guard, on the likes of Stephon Marbury whereas point guards the likes of Nash are much more so a rarity. Therefore, I would choose Nash, plain and simple.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Believe it or not Billups could be replaced with a different point guard. He is a great assest to the team but he isn't as giant a factor as most think. So what if he is averaging X stats Marbury gets X statsas well but he isn't winning games.</div> The same could be said with Nash, you stick any pg that likes to play high tempo would be basically the same player if not better. If you put kidd on the suns they would be the same team? If you put chris paul on that team would they be the same team? And finally if you put Sam cassell on that team would be they be the same team? I could put more players on there if i needed the answer is simply yes if ou put a pass first pg that loves to play uptempo you will have similar numbers. Im not saying nash is bad im just saying that other players could do it as well. I could also say no one wanted any players on the pistons but somehow they mesh together and become all stars, so basically the same thing nash did chauncey did with the pistons.
NTC187 you are obviously biased toward Billups. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">C) Why does Chauncey deserve it this season? Because he is averaging good numbers around the same as Nash who everyone thinks deserves the award, he has taken the role of the general and our offensive game runs through him which has helped lead Detroit to the best record in the league, he has 13 wins over Steve Nash and this has been Chauncey Billups best season on record. All while playing under a new coach.</div> Garbage fact and you know it. Nash has lost a lot of his key players and still keeping Phoenix in the race. Billups team hasn't suffered a dang thing, Detroit is in the East, and even if he is averaging the same stats if not a bit more in scoring than Nash doesn't mean he is a giant focale point in the Detroit team as your putting him out to be
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">If Billups wins it, it should be a bigger "controversy" then last year's picking of Steve Nash. Case in point; take Billups out of the Pistons and they still have a playoff worthy, if not contending (although that could be a stretch, but theyare in the East for god's sake) team on thier hands. Take Nash out of the Suns and you have a decent team that really struggles without him. As Hubie said on TV, Nash is the engine of that Suns team. Billups might be the engine of the Pistons but even if his engine were to crash, the car that is the Pistons would keep on going, although they may fall to a certain degree. I really fail to see how Billups should win MVP....I mean, I know he's more important to the Pistons then say the likes of Tayshaun but I fail to see how Billups is worth more to the Pistons then Rip? Or even Ben? The Pistons are the Pistons because they thrive off the ability to make ONE-ANOTHER better, rather then one person making the whole team better. Billups does not make thier team better; he doesn't make them worse. They are what they are because they play with no defined roles. My belief is that the MVP race comes down to three names: Kobe, Lebron and Nash. I would include Dirk as well but if it was down to who I think has the greatest chances to actually win it, it's those three, with Kobe or Nash most likely getting the nod. It's a very tight race, unfortunetly, I really don't feel Billups would be deserving of the award over someone like Nash. And as for Billups vs. Nash, personally I would perfer Nash for I believe (my opinion) that he is a better shooter (he's clearly one of the best in the NBA) then Billups, although Big Shot is essentially clutcher. However, Billups can't pass like Nash does, nor can he orchestrate an offense as beautifully as Nash either. Billups is more of a scoring point guard, on the likes of Stephon Marbury whereas point guards the likes of Nash are much more so a rarity. Therefore, I would choose Nash, plain and simple.</div> Truth has been spoken
God, stop it with the Kobe stuff. I don't care if he's leading his team to the playoffs without 3 other allstars to back him up. I don't care, Billups for MVP, period. Or even Nash, or even LBJ, or even Dirk, but Kobe? I don't think so.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hustler:</div><div class="quote_post">God, stop it with the Kobe stuff. I don't care if he's leading his team to the playoffs without 3 other allstars to back him up. I don't care, Billups for MVP, period. Or even Nash, or even LBJ, or even Dirk, but Kobe? I don't think so.</div> Billups is not MVP material, period. Thats end of story. Take him out they still would be contenders. Take Kobe out and you got a garbage team. Face the facts and be realistic. I like Kobe, MVP? Maybe he sure has earned it but Nash if anything has put the strongest case. Billups has had all his people, who are incredible players, all healthy. He puts up good numbers yes, but he isn't the big shot on that team. He doesn't make players better as good as Nash. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care if he's leading his team to the playoffs without 3 other allstars to back him up.</div> Put Billups on the Lakers, with Kobe gone. They won't be contenders at all. He carries his team, CARRIES. It should be traveling by now but Kobe takes all the slack to push his team into that 7th seed. Face it Pistons/Billups fans, he doesn't deserve MVP. He is a good player but thats like giving Tony Parker MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Billups is not MVP material, period. Thats end of story. Take him out they still would be contenders</div> I don't mind you or anyone thinking Billups isn't the MVP but to make garbage statements like this is stupid. The Pistons are a mess without Billups running the offense. As good as Hunter and Delk are they don't run the Pistons offense very well and neither did Arroyo. The Pistons could play several minutes with the bench on the floor with Billups and still keep the score going but you take out Billups and everything comes to a stop. He is very important to the Pistons success and to say they still would be contenders without him is foolish. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Put Billups on the Lakers, with Kobe gone. They won't be contenders at all. He carries his team, CARRIES. It should be traveling by now but Kobe takes all the slack to push his team into that 7th seed. Face it Pistons/Billups fans, he doesn't deserve MVP. He is a good player but thats like giving Tony Parker MVP.</div> Terrible logic once again, you can't comparea PG's job to a shooting guard who purely scores alot of points. It's crazy to do so. Billups If he was in L.A he would be averaging likely 20-25 points a game because thats what his role would be. Kobe is scoring so much because L.A has no other choice and neither does Jackson. You could put many other top players in a position where he has the green light to shoot and dominate the ball and still be successful. Not to take anything away from Kobe as to me he may be the best player in the game RIGHT NOW but he doesn't deserve MVP. No player deserves MVP when his team has only just clinched a playoff berth. Not saying Billups should win It either but he certainly deserves to be mentioned in the top 5 for having a career year and leading a team with over 64 wins. Nash has had my vote since the all-star break and I still stand by that vote. Nash deserves the award more than anybody.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not saying Billups should win It either but he certainly deserves to be mentioned in the top 5 for having a career year and leading a team with over 64 wins. Nash has had my vote since the all-star break and I still stand by that vote. Nash deserves the award more than anybody.</div> Never said he shouldn't be mentioned or be top 3 but to say he is a MVP over Nash and Kobe is crazy. Just because he got 7th seed, that shouldn't negate him from MVP talk. MVP mean most valuable player and thats what Kobe is to the Lakers. He is the leagues MVP in my eyes, not taking anything from Billups but he shouldn't get it because of his superb team. Nash made due with what he got and he had nothing. To me that deserves MVP, as well as Kobe getting it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">NTC187 you are obviously biased toward Billups. Garbage fact and you know it. Nash has lost a lot of his key players and still keeping Phoenix in the race. Billups team hasn't suffered a dang thing, Detroit is in the East, and even if he is averaging the same stats if not a bit more in scoring than Nash doesn't mean he is a giant focale point in the Detroit team as your putting him out to be</div> Oh for christs sake, get over yourself man. How is that a "garbage fact"? How, please explain to me, since all of that stuff has happened this season, Chauncey has done all of that stuff this season. I'm not biased at all, any sane person with half a brain can see that Chauncey <u>SHOULD</u> definatley be in the running for the award. Really, how is Billups not a focale point in the Detroit team, how? You still have yet to give me a reasonable explanation for this, probally because you simply cant. Picture Detroit without Billups, who is going to take control of the offensive game? who is going to run the floor like Billups does? Ben? Sheed? Prince? LMAO, gimme a break.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not biased at all, any sane person with half a brain can see that Chauncey SHOULD definatley be in the running for the award. </div> I never said he shouldn't be in the runnings, I said he didn't deserve MVP. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">who is going to take control of the offensive game? who is going to run the floor like Billups does? Ben? Sheed? Prince? LMAO, gimme a break.</div> http://www.nba.com/pistons/history/2000s.html Looks like they suceeded without Billups in 01-02 season. He isn't as key of a factor as you think people......The only reason the Pistons had such a weak season in 00-01 was because <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dumars could not convince Grant Hill to remain a Piston. The responsibility to save a franchise and had become too much for Hill, and he decided to join Tracy McGrady in Orlando with the Magic. Instead of simply letting Hill go, Joe completed a sign and trade deal to bring Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins to Detroit. Dumars would use the 2000-01 season to retool the club for the future, by making moves to increase salary cap flexibility and gathering draft picks. Dumars made 21 roster moves during the season, including replacing Irvine with rookie head coach Rick Carlisle. Dumars would also approve the team uniform changes, scrapping the teal and burgundy for the traditional red, white, and blue colors and a new logo. </div> They were holding their own without Billups, even when the Wolves had Billups their record was respectable but get this.....even after he left they had a good record winning 3 more games than last season. The losing and or addition of Billups showed that he isn't an MVP such as the likes of Kobe, and Nash.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post"> Really, how is Billups not a focale point in the Detroit team, how? You still have yet to give me a reasonable explanation for this, probally because you simply cant. Picture Detroit without Billups, who is going to take control of the offensive game? who is going to run the floor like Billups does? Ben? Sheed? Prince? LMAO, gimme a break.</div> Thats ridiculous. Of course the backup's cant do it as well as the starter (billups). Of course the SG, SF, PF and C arent gunna run the floor and run the offense like the PG does. But thats not MVP. Take Chris Paul off of the Hornets and i could say the same thing. Who's gunna run the offense? Who's gunna run the floor like Paul? Does that make him an MVP? Take Chris Bosh off the Raptors...Matt Bonner cant do what Chris does...look at how the offense has fallen apart and how the already weak defense has gotten weaker. Look at how they struggle to get going, and stay ahead from not having his pushing..his leadership. Does that make him an MVP? Billups is Detroits MVP no doubt...but he's not the league MVP! Just because he runs the offense on the best team doesnt mean he should get the award. His stats are solid, but not spectacular. Their a bit weaker than Nash's but more importantly..Billups has not done for Detroit what Nash has done for Pheonix. Seriously....Billups is solid but he CAN be replaced without the team totally falling apart! They are the 3 seed in the East at worst without Billups. Without Nash the Suns arent in the playoffs. And thats what seperates the solid players from the elite players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats ridiculous. Of course the backup's cant do it as well as the starter (billups). Of course the SG, SF, PF and C arent gunna run the floor and run the offense like the PG does. But thats not MVP. Take Chris Paul off of the Hornets and i could say the same thing. Who's gunna run the offense? Who's gunna run the floor like Paul? Does that make him an MVP? Take Chris Bosh off the Raptors...Matt Bonner cant do what Chris does...look at how the offense has fallen apart and how the already weak defense has gotten weaker. Look at how they struggle to get going, and stay ahead from not having his pushing..his leadership. Does that make him an MVP? Billups is Detroits MVP no doubt...but he's not the league MVP! Just because he runs the offense on the best team doesnt mean he should get the award. His stats are solid, but not spectacular. Their a bit weaker than Nash's but more importantly..Billups has not done for Detroit what Nash has done for Pheonix. Seriously....Billups is solid but he CAN be replaced without the team totally falling apart! They are the 3 seed in the East at worst without Billups. Without Nash the Suns arent in the playoffs. And thats what seperates the solid players from the elite players.</div> 1. Yes that doesnt just make an M.V.P, but again you're not taking the other things he does/has done this season into consideration. Also Chris Paul in on a failing team as is. 2. No that doesnt make Bosh an MVP contender, as again he is on one of the worst teams in the league. 3. I dont get it, you say Detroit without Billups would still be the same side, yet you claim how he is Detroits M.V.P, this doesnt make any sense. Again you have failed to take into consideration everything else he has done and does do for the side. His stats are 2 assists behind Nash's. What hasnt Billups done for Detroit that Nash has for Phoenix? They're both on good sides, they both have good records, they're both playing with alot of new players this season. As AllNet said, any player can be replaced, Nash can be replaced.
