<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">Well of course black ppl dominate the NBA, they love basketball the most. Most white ppl are focused on other things. If white ppl only luv'd basketball and practiced it day and night, they would be just as good as black ppl. But most white ppl focus on school and other things thinking they wont become a famous NBA player, thats why, values in different things. Look at hockey, its a white dominated sport. Lotsa black ppl just hate ice and snow in general, but if they luv'd it, there would be a large amount of black hockey players. Different values in different things, thats all.</div> Those are definitely some stereotypical (borderline racist) comments right there. I could rip your whole argument apart but I have better things to do w/ my time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">birds comments aren't offensive, i know they aren't intended to a hurt any segment of the population but factually they are spurious and stupid. to suggest that blacks are the best athletes in the world is to tacitly indicate that race as biology is real. well genetics has proven that race is not real; no racial group is inclined to be more athletic than another race. although, athletes disproportionately come from the poorer rungs of society , this is an universal trend. plus, i think there is a stigma against white american players to play a certain way. the chris anderson?s, bobby sura and jason williams who play "black" have been routinely criticized by the media for their style of play. phil taylor of si wrote a compelling piece a few years back when the european invasion of the nba occurred, he argued that european players like dirk nowoski (sp.) don't play "white" but play a more athletic game. Arguably the 3 most athletic 7 footers in the game are pau gasol, dirk and kg. ironically kg is the only black player on that list. moreover, u guys think ginoboli plays "white"? black athletes work incredibly hard at their craft to suggest its inherent racial ascribed gifts eviscerates their hard work.</div> Also Jonathan Bender and Odom, , can't forget Bender. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Iron Shiek":</div><div class="quote_post">Those are definitely some stereotypical (borderline racist) comments right there. I could rip your whole argument apart but I have better things to do w/ my time.</div> About Intrepid's post, I've gotta agree with him here. I know just as many white basketball players that play a lot and love it just as much as black guys I know, but many of the good black ball players I know are also good in school, many times also the ones who have African parents (I'd know since I do), look at Emeka and Deng, both pretty godo students. I also know a guy name OJ who went to Stanford for football and got drafted to the CFL, and he played every sport, but was also one of the top students in his school. Also even if they aren't thinking about the NBA, they could be thinking about making it in another professional sport. I don't know what it is, but I don't think you can say it's because most white people focus on school, and most black people focus on trying to make the NBA or NFL or whatever. Hockey is a white dominated sport, but I don't think it's the same as basketball in terms of people playing it, because I know about as many white people that play basketball as black people, but for hockey, I know quite an amount of black people, but not close to the amount of white people. Also hockey costs money, basketball you can just go to the courts, buy a $5 ball and play, but hockey you need the equipment if you play in a league, and that a lotta dough. Even to play at home you need some stuff to get going. About Bird, I don't feel he was racist, I think it's fine what he said, and true too, people like someone they can relate to, not that white people won't like black players, or black people won't like white players, but if you're white it sounds more reasonable for you to say I want to be Brent Barry than I want to be Ray Allen or something. Just like Ginobili excited more people in his country, Yao excited more people from Eastern Asia about basketball, a white American player will excite more young white Americans about basketball because they can say I want to be the next Bobby Barry (made up name) or whatever.
i think bird was trying to give black people a complement, however it was at the expense of white people.. saying he didn't want a white guty on him playing D may be an insult to white basketball players.. however i wouldn't consider him rascist. I think it was just a little conversation which people and the media have blown out of proportion.. as they do with everything. Its no reason for people to say "black ppl are better at this and white ppl are better at that".. we're all people and have our passions and goals in life (wether it be making the nba, or working at mcdonalds).. race only becomes an issue to narrow minded people.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Originally Posted by intrepid1983 Well of course black ppl dominate the NBA, they love basketball the most. Most white ppl are focused on other things. If white ppl only luv'd basketball and practiced it day and night, they would be just as good as black ppl. But most white ppl focus on school and other things thinking they wont become a famous NBA player, thats why, values in different things. Look at hockey, its a white dominated sport. Lotsa black ppl just hate ice and snow in general, but if they luv'd it, there would be a large amount of black hockey players. Different values in different things, thats all.</div> The dumbest thing i have ever heard heard.
Don't get on Bird for saying that because he didn't bring up the issue, the reporter did. I also think Bird approached the answer well and made his point, I which ever one is allowed to have their own opinion.
How I feel it is that it's an argument that should've been avoided. The reporter shouldn't have asked the questions leading to this. And Larry should have had enough sense to avoid his comments. Especially being in the position that he is. How is it going to look for future drafts and trades (is he drafting such and such because "we need more good white players" or because of his talent)? And he has a point from a marketing standpoint that some fans want cheer for a player they can relate to. But I'd rather relate to someone who came from a similar background and lifestyle instead of someone because of their color (like what do most African-American people have in common with Kobe ). Usually the crowd cheers for a Madsen, Walton, or Buechler because of the energy they bring, not the color of their skin. And the question should be asked of themselves (the fans that want a white, latino, asian to relate to) are you a true fan of the game? Because if you are, you won't care who dunks the ball or takes the charge.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sabretooth:</div><div class="quote_post">How I feel it is that it's an argument that should've been avoided. The reporter shouldn't have asked the questions leading to this. And Larry should have had enough sense to avoid his comments. Especially being in the position that he is. How is it going to look for future drafts and trades (is he drafting such and such because "we need more good white players" or because of his talent)? And he has a point from a marketing standpoint that some fans want cheer for a player they can relate to. But I'd rather relate to someone who came from a similar background and lifestyle instead of someone because of their color (like what do most African-American people have in common with Kobe ). Usually the crowd cheers for a Madsen, Walton, or Buechler because of the energy they bring, not the color of their skin. And the question should be asked of themselves (the fans that want a white, latino, asian to relate to) are you a true fan of the game? Because if you are, you won't care who dunks the ball or takes the charge.</div> Yeah. I agree. I don't really think it's a matter of race on who I cheer for. More often than not, it's a matter of nationalism. The way Argentina cheers for Manu, France cheers for Tony and China cheers for Yao. It wasn't a racism comment but still, he should've avoided saying those things for this reason exactly. That some people will misunderstand his comments.
'Melo For all those who had a chance to see this segment of the Jim Gray's interview there was something else that was a bit disturbing to me. Why was Carmelo backing up all of Bird's statements? Carmelo recently turned 20 and during his brief time in the limelight, he has already made some pretty questionable comments. He is very engaging and honest w/ the media and I am sure that media members know this and will soon be looking to get him caught up in his own statements. Things that Carmelo has said thus far in his career: I don't want to go to the Olympics if I'm not going to get any playing time. I have better things to do in my spare time. I'm not going to the All-Star game if they pick me as a replacement player. I should have definitely been picked over Andrei Kirileinko. The Rookie of the Year trophy is slowly flowing down the ocean (when asked if his refusal to go back into the game would affect his ROY chances--in the midst of his team's playoff run) Last but not least I want to thank myself for getting this (player of the year from the ESPY's) award. I'm the one who put in all of the work. The hardest transition that I have dealt w/ from college to the pros is dealing w/ all of the new women in my life. --He also laughed very hard when Charles Barkley implied that he was already rich from the money he received while he was a freshman at Syracuse, w/o denying that he received anything-- (All of these quotes are paraphrased and taken in the context from which it was intended) Carmelo is one of my favorite players in the league for a variety of reasons, one of which is his naivity. I'm concerned that he is going to say something very stupid when prompted by a overzealous reporter, and that those statements will end up haunting him. Hopefully Carmelo has people in his ear that are helping him understand that he can't expose himself too much to the public. I think that he got a taste of how quickly a superstar athlete can be brought down by the media after he refused to re-enter the game against Detroit. I think that he needs to only to look at his buddy LeBron who seems to understand what to say and what not to say (notice he didn't say a word during Bird's rant). I think that honestly he deserved the ROY award (and I think that he is a better player than LeBron), but b/c of a very few poor decisions (that were blown up by the media) he didn't receive the award (or an Olympic invite). I just hope that the young man from Baltimore doesn't put himself in a position where the LeBron vs Carmelo debates become Good Cop vs Bad Cop analysis.
On Carmelo, nothing wrong with saying what's exactly on your mind, I respect those athletes a lot more than the ones who give typical, PC, answers to every question. I wouldn't be surprised if one day he says something and the media makes him out to be a bad guy, ala Randy Moss, Barry Bonds, Rasheed Wallace, etc. The media isn't going to help him be successful on the court though, so I wouldn't worry about it if I was a Carmelo fan.
This is the NBA, fans/media don't care that much what you do with your own time as long as you can perform on the court (something I wouldn't worry about in 'Melo's case). Just look at the popularity of AI or Rasheed. Questionable behaviour off-court has not diminished their popularity or reputation on the court at all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">On Carmelo, nothing wrong with saying what's exactly on your mind, I respect those athletes a lot more than the ones who give typical, PC, answers to every question. I wouldn't be surprised if one day he says something and the media makes him out to be a bad guy, ala Randy Moss, Barry Bonds, Rasheed Wallace, etc. The media isn't going to help him be successful on the court though, so I wouldn't worry about it if I was a Carmelo fan.</div> Well said, I just want the youngster to be careful. He seems to be a good guy and I don't like how the media is subtly trying to make him out to be a headcase. Things that happen (or written) in the media sometimes can affect people's play (good publicity can result in a better play and vice versa). I think that Carmelo is strong enough mentally to withstand some of the negative publicity that he will undoubtedly receive, but then again (dependent on the situation) you never know.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Well said, I just want the youngster to be careful. He seems to be a good guy and I don't like how the media is subtly trying to make him out to be a headcase. Things that happen (or written) in the media sometimes can affect people's play (good publicity can result in a better play and vice versa). I think that Carmelo is strong enough mentally to withstand some of the negative publicity that he will undoubtedly receive, but then again (dependent on the situation) you never know.</div> Well Lebron already has this "Magic Johnson good guy image". Maybe the media and the NBA is trying to give the bad boy reputation to Melo.
To me, Larry Bird is the man and he can pretty much say whatever he wants and nothing will be held against him. It was just an opinionated statement and Im pretty sure most of the white fans agree with him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sabretooth:</div><div class="quote_post">How I feel it is that it's an argument that should've been avoided. The reporter shouldn't have asked the questions leading to this. And Larry should have had enough sense to avoid his comments. Especially being in the position that he is. How is it going to look for future drafts and trades (is he drafting such and such because "we need more good white players" or because of his talent)? And he has a point from a marketing standpoint that some fans want cheer for a player they can relate to. But I'd rather relate to someone who came from a similar background and lifestyle instead of someone because of their color (like what do most African-American people have in common with Kobe ). Usually the crowd cheers for a Madsen, Walton, or Buechler because of the energy they bring, not the color of their skin. And the question should be asked of themselves (the fans that want a white, latino, asian to relate to) are you a true fan of the game? Because if you are, you won't care who dunks the ball or takes the charge.</div> I dont' neccessarily agree with this because when Kyle Korver comes in the game with a minute left the crowd goes nuts. Kyle Korver cannot bring energy into the game down 15 with 60 secs. left sorry. I think the cheers are because he is white.
I respect Bird even more for speaking his mind like he did and not trying to sugar coat the issue attempting to be politically correct like everyone else. Nothing that Larry said was wrong, and frankly what Larry said about trying to get more white superstars in the NBA is NO DIFFERENT AT ALL than NASCAR and Magic Johnson trying to get more black drivers and attract more black fans. NASCAR and Magic Johnson can talk all they want about trying to attract more black drivers and fans, but as soon as Larry Bird talks about wanting to attract more white fans he is labeled a racist? That's a load of BS and just another example of the huge double standard in this country.
I think in an essence Bird was right, the NBA needs more white stars for young white boys to look up to. I'm white myself, so I know about this, when me and my friends was younger (11-13 yrs old) we would play and immatate player, most of the time we would try to be guys like Detlef Schrempf, John Stockton, Larry Bird, Steve Kerr, Toni Kuckoc, etc. Sure sometimes we would pretend we was Shaq, Kemp, or the Mailman, but most of the time we would try to shoot threes like Schrempf or Bird. It kinda gave us hope, because when you are younger, you look up to people who are like you, its just basic human nature. Also, who ever said black people always worked harder on basketball than books and thats the reason they was better, I would like to say thats not true, that depends on the individual. I love the game more than anyone else, in fact, I was always the first one to basketball practice and the last one to leave when I played, and the sad fact about that I lived the farthest away from the gym (~14 miles) than anyone on the team. Bird never said anything wrong, I think our culture has just got to sensitive and is always looking to make something out of nothing, no matter what the subject is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Also Jonathan Bender and Odom, , can't forget Bender.</div> Odom is actually 6'10", lol.
First of all basketball is a black sport and that follows black stars of course. The only white stars in this leuge, that i can think about is:The whole kings and spurs team! no just kidding. It is Bibby, Stojakovich, DIRK, Nash, Ming.....and maybe J-will and brad miller to.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Those are definitely some stereotypical (borderline racist) comments right there. I could rip your whole argument apart but I have better things to do w/ my time.</div> How is that stereotypical? I'm from Canada (pure hockey knowledge), and I came from Jamaica (went to an all black school, never saw a caucasian till i hit 14 and came up to canada). I was actually giving a reasonable explanation for it. Pretty reasonable actually. Mine pretty much says all races are the same, but what they focus on makes them better at what they do with it. THat is in no way racist in comment. And it is out of being and pure observation. Im talking about majority of ppl here. Not saying all, Ensign Carter is a fine black hockey player winning gold for Canada, but majority of black ppl would prefer basketball over hockey any day. Do caucasians like rock music more? Or do black ppl? If you answer caucasians then u are racist then, based on what u said about my comments. Like i said, if you focus on something, you will be better at it than others. black ppl focus on bball because they like that sport, so they will be better at it, IF i said their bodies were made to be better than caucasians at bball then that would be a racist comment. Caucasians like more variety of things than black ppl (definitely a tru statement) BUt no, i said they enjoy it more, so they try to play it more often and improve at it obviously, really think about it before calling it racist. No shots to you, im jus tryin to have you see it in my view. Any race which focuses on certain aspects will get better at it, and if they like doing things more, are they racist for stating it? DO chinese ppl like playing raquet sports? like table tennis? If you can answer a yes or a no, then you are racist (based on what you were saying of my comments).
