Bonzi: "I've been healthy for 10 days, it's up to coach when I play"

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I already knew this. I didn't ask you what his strengths were </div>

No, but I expected you to charge that I was only looking at his weaknesses while ignoring his strengths, so I listed them. Amazingly, doing so didn't prevent you from making that charge (below).

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ur tellin me that you wouldn't be IRRATE if Bonzi didn't play in the playoffs? Ur cherrypickin ur criticism on a player who's already proven he can be a force in the playoffs. So let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and say he really has "drawbacks" . Then we'll compare him to Stackhouse, who's playin a similar role off the bench for Dallas.</div>

How can you say I'm cherrypicking when I also covered his strengths in the same post? You asked for weaknesses, and I listed them along with the strengths. If you didn't want me to list them, you shouldn't have asked.

As for his numbers in the playoffs, yes they look good. It's uncertain (I'd argue unlikely) if he can produce anywhere close to that on our team in games that are only a month away. He's been in and out of the lineup all year, he can't stay healthy for more than a few weeks in a row, and while he's been on the court the production hasn't looked very good. I think what he's done on our team this season is just as relevant as what he's done on other teams earlier in his career. Actually, I think it's probably a better indicator of what we can expect.

You compared him to Stackhouse. Well, Stackhouse is having a far better year this season, and he's never had a season where he's been as unproductive as Bonzi has been this season. Plus, Stackhouse would probably be a better fit on our team because he can shoot threes (36% for the year), and Bonzi can't. Plus Stackhouse hits his free throws. Guess who's the worst free throw shooter on our team this season (I'll give you a hint -- it's not Chuck Hayes).

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say I'm cherrypicking when I also covered his strengths in the same post? You asked for weaknesses, and I listed them along with the strengths. If you didn't want me to list them, you shouldn't have asked.</div>
Ur "drawback" are ur personal opinions. I've NEVER heard a analyst complain about Bonzi's turnovers or defense. If so, please give me proof.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">As for his numbers in the playoffs, yes they look good. It's uncertain (I'd argue unlikely) if he can produce anywhere close to that on our team in games that are only a month away. He's been in and out of the lineup all year, he can't stay healthy for more than a few weeks in a row, and while he's been on the court the production hasn't looked very good. I think what he's done on our team this season is just as relevant as what he's done on other teams earlier in his career. Actually, I think it's probably a better indicator of what we can expect.</div>
Actually, he's BEEN healthy for a while now. But our coach doesn't wanna activate him. The same case earlier this season. So his injuries aren't a factor, considering the coach chooses not to play him even when healthy. Even when he's played he hasn't averaged over 10 shots a game, and JVG has used him VERY sparingly (like the Dallas game when he scored 8pts in the first half and didn't see any action in the 2nd). Instead of being the go-to 3rd option, he's been used as a decoy on the weakside. His strong points are postups, but he's seen very little of those on this team.

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You compared him to Stackhouse. Well, Stackhouse is having a far better year this season, and he's never had a season where he's been as unproductive as Bonzi has been this season. Plus, Stackhouse would probably be a better fit on our team because he can shoot threes (36% for the year), and Bonzi can't. Plus Stackhouse hits his free throws. Guess who's the worst free throw shooter on our team this season (I'll give you a hint -- it's not Chuck Hayes).</div>
Nice try. But we knew Bonzi wasn't a 3pt threat when we signed him. He's a post up wing. Bonzi's production has been a product of playing time. He doesn't have any plays ran for him, so basically he's regulated to garbage time player. NO PLAYS ran for him! Nada, not one! I've seen atleast 3 different plays ran for Stackhouse by Avery. You mentioned Bonzi's shooting%, and for the record it's BETTER than Stackhouse's.

Bonzi has said he wants to play. Regardless of what JVG says, I believe he has a place on this team. So are you, Durvasa, sayin that JVG SHOULDN'T PLAY BONZI FOR THE PLAYOFFS? Yay or Nay?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Actually, he's BEEN healthy for a while now. But our coach doesn't wanna activate him. The same case earlier this season. So his injuries aren't a factor, considering the coach chooses not to play him even when healthy. Even when he's played he hasn't averaged over 10 shots a game, and JVG has used him VERY sparingly (like the Dallas game when he scored 8pts in the first half and didn't see any action in the 2nd). Instead of being the go-to 3rd option, he's been used as a decoy on the weakside. His strong points are postups, but he's seen very little of those on this team. </div>

He's been healthy for a while because he isn't playing. Whenever he's actually gotten on the court, he's gotten himself injured shortly thereafter.

His scoring attempts while on the floor have come just as frequently this season as last season, actually. He's only playing 21 mpg. But, you're right, with Yao and McGrady healthy, Bonzi's role on the offense would likely be reduced.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nice try. But we knew Bonzi wasn't a 3pt threat when we signed him. He's a post up wing. Bonzi's production has been a product of playing time.</div>

As Feigen says, when we signed him we expected to play Battier at PF a lot, which would put given us an extra spot up shooter on the floor. You can afford to have a SF who doesn't shoot from the outside in that case. But we've gone away from that, because it hurts our rebounding and overall defense.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He doesn't have any plays ran for him, so basically he's regulated to garbage time player. NO PLAYS ran for him! Nada, not one! I've seen atleast 3 different plays ran for Stackhouse by Avery. You mentioned Bonzi's shooting%, and for the record it's BETTER than Stackhouse's.</div>

Yes, because he doesn't take 3-point shots. And you also have to take his poor free throw shooting into account. His TS% (i.e. overall scoring efficiency) is 45.5% (which would rank him right at the bottom of the league), while Stackhouse's TS% is 52.2% (only slightly below average for a SG).

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi has said he wants to play. Regardless of what JVG says, I believe he has a place on this team. So are you, Durvasa, sayin that JVG SHOULDN'T PLAY BONZI FOR THE PLAYOFFS? Yay or Nay? Either he'll play or not. What are ur thoughts?</div>

I don't have a Yay/Nay opinion. It's a tough decision, and I'm not going to take a side just for the sake of taking side. I see the difficulties of playing Bonzi, but I also recognize the potential benefits.

There's a lot of uncertainty/risk with trying to integrate him back into the rotation this late in the season. So I don't have a problem just sticking with our current group of guys (including Snyder). At the same time, I wish Bonzi would have kept himself in shape and had his attitude in check from the beginning of the year so we could have gotten a good look at what he can give us. If the coach decides to give him another look, I'll be worried about how it could impact our chemistry and change the roles of other players on the team, but I'll accept that decision.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He's been healthy for a while because he isn't playing. Whenever he's actually gotten on the court, he's gotten himself injured shortly thereafter.</div>
But the injuries have been naggin, nothing serious enuff to keep him out significant time.

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">His scoring attempts while on the floor have come just as frequently this season as last season, actually. He's only playing 21 mpg. But, you're right, with Yao and McGrady healthy, Bonzi's role on the offense would likely be reduced.</div>
He's a postup player. But yet he doesn't get many touches on the block or plays ran for him. That's a tribute to our wonderful coach.


<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">As Feigen says, when we signed him we expected to play Battier at PF a lot, which would put given us an extra spot up shooter on the floor. You can afford to have a SF who doesn't shoot from the outside in that case. But we've gone away from that, because it hurts our rebounding and overall defense.</div>
Hurts our rebounding? Bonzi's a great rebounder. He also plays 3 different positions.


<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, because he doesn't take 3-point shots. And you also have to take his poor free throw shooting into account. His TS% (i.e. overall scoring efficiency) is 45.5% (which would rank him right at the bottom of the league), while Stackhouse's TS% is 52.2% (only slightly below average for a SG).</div>
We don't need more 3pt shooters, we already take enuff of those. Players comin off injury always struggle with free throws, Tmac's a perfect example. He's a better shooter than Stackhouse, better rebounder than Stackhouse, better defender than Stackhouse and quite younger than Stackhouse.


<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't have a Yay/Nay opinion. It's a tough decision, and I'm not going to take a side just for the sake of taking side. I see the difficulties of playing Bonzi, but I also recognize the potential benefits.</div>
So even with the pressure on the line you REFUSE answer my question. Then it's pointless debating with you. Ur playin both sides of the fence so you won't be held accountable if we get ran outta the first round. By refusing to answer, you have absolutley no say.

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There's a lot of uncertainty/risk with trying to integrate him back into the rotation this late in the season. So I don't have a problem just sticking with our current group of guys (including Snyder). At the same time, I wish Bonzi would have kept himself in shape and had his attitude in check from the beginning of the year so we could have gotten a good look at what he can give us. If the coach decides to give him another look, I'll be worried about how it could impact our chemistry and change the roles of other players on the team, but I'll accept that decision.</div>
So in nutshell you have no idea what you think lol. You sit up here and criticize ROCK4LIFE for his views, but when asked what you think on a issue you all of sudden become confused. One thing is clear, you support JVG in his decisions. Bonzi's attitude and game shape has been used as an excuse not to play him. Whatever incident that happened early, JVG has held a grudge against Bonzi. Ultimatley, sitting Bonzi will cost the team. By siding with JVG, ur opening urself up to criticism if his strategies fall FLAT. I'd pray that JVG's making the right decision, because if not, ur gonna be made to look EXTREMLEY silly. Good luck

Thank you,
ROCK4LIFE

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
So even with the pressure on the line you REFUSE answer my question. Then it's pointless debating with you. Ur playin both sides of the fence so you won't be held accountable if we get ran outta the first round. By refusing to answer, you have absolutley no say. </div>

There's a good chance we'd be run out of the first round either way. We'll be playing a good Jazz team, and there's a strong possibility we won't have home court advantage. You revving up to blame JVG for anything that happens short of a championship win. I get it. No matter what happens, you'll be right and everyone else will be wrong.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So in nutshell you have no idea what you think lol. You sit up here and criticize ROCK4LIFE for his views, but when asked what you think on a issue you all of sudden become confused. </div>

Talking in third person now? You sure have a high opinion of yourself. No wonder you're never wrong.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">One thing is clear, you support JVG in his decisions.</div>

Sometimes. Not all the time. And with a lot of coaching decisions, there isn't just one right approach. I'll see why JVG made his decision, but also see the wisdom in other approaches.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi's attitude and game shape has been used as an excuse not to play him. Whatever incident that happened early, JVG has held a grudge against Bonzi. Ultimatley, sitting Bonzi will cost the team. By siding with JVG, ur opening urself up to criticism if his strategies fall FLAT. I'd pray that JVG's making the right decision, because if not, ur gonna be made to look EXTREMLEY silly. Good luck</div>

One thing is clear to me, and that is you'll support Bonzi no matter what he does, because your preseason prediction was he'd help us. Therefore, if he doesn't help us, it can't be his fault. That's the screwy logic that goes on in your brain. You're never wrong, after all.

I'm going to look silly to you regardless of what happens. Because, no matter what happens short of winning it all (and maybe not even that would be enough), you'll say that it was a mistake not to play Bonzi. I honestly don't care. You're credibility has gone down the toilet in my eyes long, long ago. Sorry.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There's a good chance we'd be run out of the first round either way. We'll be playing a good Jazz team, and there's a strong possibility we won't have home court advantage. You revving up to blame JVG for anything that happens short of a championship win. I get it. No matter what happens, you'll be right and everyone else will be wrong. </div>
Now I realize the difference. Ur expectations of the Houston Rockets are much lower than mine. Sayin theres a "good chance" we'll get ran outta the playoffs by Utah just confirms that you don't think of this team as highly as myself, therefore holding them to much lesser standards. That's why you disagree with just about every notion (Chuck Hayes, Bonzi etc...) There should be ABSOLUTLEY no excuse for the Rockets not to get outta the first round this year. We should beat a team like Utah. With Mcgrady attackin, Yao dominating and our bench at full strength, there should be NO WAY Utah can touch us.

Ur standards are much lower. My standards are much higher. There lies the difference. Pointless to go back & fourth with you

 

It's like reading a conversation between two people here...i love it xP

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ur standards are much lower. My standards are much higher. There lies the difference. Pointless to go back & fourth with you</div>

You're right. You think we should be much better than we are, and you blame the coach's decisions on offense for that. I think we're about as good as we should be. In a 7-game series against the Jazz I like our chances, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we lose. With or without Bonzi.

 

I'd like to see Bonzi get considerable minutes, but definitely not OVER Battier!

But then again, I also want Snyder playing and Head ... not enough minutes.

 

Bonzi is a cancer and needs to be kept off the court as much as possible.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're right. You think we should be much better than we are, and you blame the coach's decisions on offense for that. I think we're about as good as we should be. In a 7-game series against the Jazz I like our chances, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we lose. With or without Bonzi.</div>
So ur saying you like our chances against Utah. But heres what you said earlier in this very same thread

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There's a good chance we'd be run out of the first round either way. We'll be playing a good Jazz team, and there's a strong possibility we won't have home court advantage.</div>
I'm a little confused......


The pressure is on JVG to get us past the 1st round. The talent is there. I think JVG is a good coach, but lacks the decision making to be great. He's also stubborn. Whether Bonzi plays in the playoffs, I don't know. But a great coach would never keep a player of Bonzi's potential off the roster. Why? It's too risky. You never know what could happen. Hypothetically speakin, if Tmac goes down in a playoff game, how stupid will it look if Bonzi's not even on the roster to fill in. JVG's playin with fire by not activating Bonzi, which might ultimatley cost him job after the season. I wouldn't complain either

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So ur saying you like our chances against Utah. But heres what you said earlier in this very same thread

I'm a little confused......</div>

Good chance, relative to the chances you'd give them. In my opinion, it's closer to 50/50 then what you may think (we should just roll over Utah, no problem).

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Good chance, relative to the chances you'd give them. In my opinion, it's closer to 50/50 then what you may think (we should just roll over Utah, no problem).</div>
Not quite...You said "Theres a good chance we'll get ran outta the playoffs by a good Jazz team". That's about as cut & dry as we're gonna get.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not quite...You said "Theres a good chance we'll get ran outta the playoffs by a good Jazz team". That's about as cut & dry as we're gonna get.</div>

There is a good chance they'd win. I think we'll have a better chance.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There is a good chance they'd win. I think we'll have a better chance.</div>
Okay....Go back and read ur own posts. U clearly contradicted urself

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Okay....Go back and read ur own posts. U clearly contradicted urself</div>

It depends on how you interpret "good chance to win". I already explained what I meant by it. Nothing further to say.

 

<div class="quote_poster">dallasdude Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bonzi is a cancer and needs to be kept off the court as much as possible.</div>
Being a dallas fan, Bonzi not playin is a DREAM for you guys lol.

 

Sorry Durvasa, but I'm just as confused here. A good chance obviously means more than 50/50. 50/50 is more like just plain even chance.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is a good chance they'd win. I think we'll have a better chance.</div>

If that's your explanation of a good chance, then I think I'll drop off a 3 Storey building since there's a "good chance" I'm gonna live.

If you say theres a 50/50 chance between the 2 teams, why would you the say that we have a BETTER chance? tha'ts obvously more than 50%.

This is just too confusing.
-----

Back on topic:

To figure out whether JVG's decision is a good one.. why not answer me a simple question.

Are we better with or without Bonzi in the playoffs?

You can spew out all of this years stats to prove that Bonzi ain't worth it. But what about all the obstacles that have been put in his way. Irregular playing time, his fitness (btw he's fit now as the article says), and his quarrels with JVG.

JVG's a great coach, but can we win a ch'ship with him?

I don't know. There are still missing pieces in this roster puzzle.

 

I really don't understand the big deal about Bonzi. He has hardly played all year and you guys have been successful, why go screw that up? It doesn't make sense to me to bring in a guy and mess up the chemistry on a team.

And to the JVG getting fired thing....why? He's done a fantastic job with this team this year. He's turned them into one of the best defensive teams in the league. Beyond that, when Yao got injured, this team could have fallen apart completely, but (and R4L will likely argue) due to the fact you have a very good coach like JVG, you didn't. He's done much more good than harm on this team and getting rid of him would be stupid. R4L, just because you have this man-crush on Bonzi doesn't mean JVG should get fired over not playing him. It makes no sense.

And one last question, what happens if you guys do succeed in the playoffs and make it to the Finals without Bonzi? Are you gonna change your stance than R4L?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I really don't understand the big deal about Bonzi. He has hardly played all year and you guys have been successful, why go screw that up? It doesn't make sense to me to bring in a guy and mess up the chemistry on a team. </div>
You'd have to understand our team & frustration of previous years. On the outside, you'd prolly say "Gee, the Rockets have a good record. Do they really need Bonzi?". But the truth is, we do. Our team is primarily a jumpshooting team. That style of play doesn't suit well for a team aiming to go far in the playoffs. Even if JVG decided not to place Bonzi in the rotation, it's highly stupid to not atleast have him in uniform (in case of injuries). Personally, I think he should be in rotation considering we need another low post option when jumpers aren't falling.

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And to the JVG getting fired thing....why? He's done a fantastic job with this team this year. He's turned them into one of the best defensive teams in the league. Beyond that, when Yao got injured, this team could have fallen apart completely, but (and R4L will likely argue) due to the fact you have a very good coach like JVG, you didn't. He's done much more good than harm on this team and getting rid of him would be stupid. R4L, just because you have this man-crush on Bonzi doesn't mean JVG should get fired over not playing him. It makes no sense.</div>
Again, check the history of years past. We've alwayz been "one player" away from being contenders. We tried to beat Dallas in the playoffs years ago, but fell short due to lack of size and a consistent 3rd option. So when we FINALLY get a player like Bonzi who can create, and has LOADS of playoff experience, JVG decides he doesn't want him on the team (I guess he'd much rather have David Wesley back ). The Rockets are a good team, but we rely WAY to heavily on 3's to win. We play more like a Eastern Conference team. Ya'll love to exaggerate my support for Bonzi, but ANY team in the league would want this guy come playoff time.

Even tho we're havin a good season, if we don't get past the 1st round JVG's toast. Simple as that.

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And one last question, what happens if you guys do succeed in the playoffs and make it to the Finals without Bonzi? Are you gonna change your stance than R4L?</div>
Obviously anything can happen. But our chances increase dramatically with Bonzi. Outside of maybe Mutumbo, he's the most experienced player we have playoff wise.