<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Francis is more than just above average. He is a three-time All-Star, and a starter in all of those three appearances. The only reason people think he sucks now is because of Yao and Jeff Van Gundy. If he goes to a team like Orlando, he might even get better stats that T-Mac is getting right now.</div> Trip, don't kid yourself. Francis will do more harm to the magic than good. Everyone here is claiming that Tmac is not a leader, but guess what neither is Francis. Remember a few years ago when the Rockets blew ass? Where was Francis to help and lead the team? The funny thing is that he couldn't make an impact on that team and they had a better supporting cast than tmac has now. So stop assuming that he would have better stats than Tmac. If Houston wants a chance to get Tmac they need to offer Francis and something more.
Where was Francis? He was injured, just like what T-Mac has been for at least 20 games each season. Losing exposes character, and T-Mac is now blown up into a selfish player who bitches about just everything in sight. Francis has been turned into the same character with Yao around. If you say that Francis didn't make an impact, you're wrong. Two seasons ago when the Rockets blew ass with a 28-54 record, Francis missed 25 games. The Rockets were 2-23 without him. His supporting cast was also injured much of the time. T-Mac did not make an impact, he just got chances to score and he ran with it. His style of play is detrimental to almost any team, and that is why I think he is worth Francis, but not worth trading for.
uh..? Everyone considers the "Rockets Offseason" as offloading Francis, and getting a new player.. Thats not the way it has work. Trading McGrady for Francis straightup may not be the smartest idea, but it could happen.. The Rockets may not have to trade Francis at all to get McGrady.. "Thats total bull" you may say, but if you think about it: Trading Otis Thorpe for Clyde the Glide - who everyone back then knew he would be a hall-of-famer- was so stupid it was laughable.. But it did happen, didnt it? Otis Thorpe, one of the <u>role players</u> for the Rockets gets traded for Clyde Drexler <u>the man that could do it all</u> type player.. Well if I remember correctly, It was an <u>11 man deal</u>. Could that work for the Rockets? Just throwing this in: The Magic lack a dominant big man, right? Rumours had it that the ther was a deal for Francis and Elton Brand.. Not saying this would happen but.. The Clippers GM isnt the smartest guy in the classroom.. So, again, just a thought, Francis and Cato, to the Clippers, who trade Brand and Cato to the Magic, who then bring McGrady to Houston.. In turn, the Magic can draft a college kid to take McGrady's place.. Im not a college bball fan as of this year, so I dont know who they can get.. Again just a thought, i dont want all of u gettin crazy.. When you talk about the season where the Rockets "blew ass" then you might wanna look at the Magic's current predicament.. eh? You could say: McGrady was injured, but, You did go 0-18 or whatever, right?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Eclipse, you're crazy man.. Tmac might have more talent than Yao, but even then, Yao has the potential to be the best big man in the NBA. I would still build around Yao. Why? Because championship teams revolve around great big men, not guards. Unless your name is Michael Jordan, not even the best guards like Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, not ANY guards can have a championship team that's built around them. Big men make dynasties. Remember that.</div> I don't buy that....you should always build around the most talented/best player. Yao is never going to average 32 points a season EVER. He's just not capable of putting up those kind of numbers. His ceiling isn't really that high, just because he'd rather pass then shoot. If he wants to become an elite player in this league he has to change some of his tendencies. It's too early to be talking about dynasties with Yao. He is nowhere close to Russell, Chamberlain, Shaq, Olajuwon in terms of skill and talent. "Big men" don't make dynasties, ELITE big men make dynasties. Yao has the potential to become the best center in the league after Shaq retires only because of the current state of the NBA and not because he's an elite player (yet). Until he shows me that he can dominate on a nightly basis, T-Mac would always be my first option.
I wasn't trying to make a point that Yao will be the next Olajuwon but, I would rather take a chance with building a dynasty with Yao simply because he's a big man (big men have better chances as history shows) and it is super duper rare that guards make dynasty. Unless Tmac hooks up with a good big man and share the ball, he sure as hell won't be making a dynasty, I can guarantee you that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tmac is far more superior than Steve FRancis is now or will ever be.Trading him straight up is just plain dumb. Just because Tmac wants to go to Houston doesn't mean the magic will be dumb enough to trade him to a team that is not capable to offer an equal trade.</div> Well, there's a good chance T-Mac will leave the Magic when he can because his contract expires. The last thing any GM wants is to lose his star player to free agency and in return get nothing but cap space. You want to try to get something more out of it, even if the players involved aren't quite equal. The Magic may get no say in who they trade for, as there are only a few teams T-Mac has said he wants to go to. So either they let him walk, or try to get something out of him while they still can. They had the worst record in the league this season, and obviously the current team isn't working. Steve Franics has a smaller contract, and more years left on it. So Orlando would be getting a PG, which they need, and he would be staying a while(5 seasons left on his contract). While Houston are likely to be getting the better deal, Orlando doesn't have much choice.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tmac15:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, there's a good chance T-Mac will leave the Magic when he can because his contract expires. The last thing any GM wants is to lose his star player to free agency and in return get nothing but cap space. You want to try to get something more out of it, even if the players involved aren't quite equal. The Magic may get no say in who they trade for, as there are only a few teams T-Mac has said he wants to go to. So either they let him walk, or try to get something out of him while they still can. They had the worst record in the league this season, and obviously the current team isn't working. Steve Franics has a smaller contract, and more years left on it. So Orlando would be getting a PG, which they need, and he would be staying a while(5 seasons left on his contract). While Houston are likely to be getting the better deal, Orlando doesn't have much choice.</div> Don't worry Tmac is staying.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post"> Rocketlaunch- Tmac does way more than just score. If you ever see a magic game you will know that Tmac is not selfish like everyone claims he is. The problem is that he is surrounded with garbage players. IF tmac had players who could help him out he would average at least 7 or 8 assists. You claim Tmac is terrible on defense, but actually the whole team is terrible at defense. No superstar would be able to help this team out</div> The number of assists you have doesn't mean he's not selfish... If he would have played defense, as the "leader," the rest of his teammates would have followed. Since the Magic offense was pretty good that team didn't need a great defense, it needed a decent one, had McGrady played defense the other players would have as well and you would have seen at least a decent defense and a winning record. You don't need, Eric Snow, Ron Artest, Duncan, and Ben Wallace type defensive players to have at least a decent defense, all you need is effort and leadership, the Magic didn't have that though. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Trip, don't kid yourself. Francis will do more harm to the magic than good. Everyone here is claiming that Tmac is not a leader, but guess what neither is Francis. Remember a few years ago when the Rockets blew ass? Where was Francis to help and lead the team? The funny thing is that he couldn't make an impact on that team and they had a better supporting cast than tmac has now. So stop assuming that he would have better stats than Tmac.</div> What year are you talking about? Francis' rookie season? Francis' migraine season? Those are the only 2 seasons Francis has ever had an under .500 record. No, he won't have better stats, but I guarantee you he does not lose 19 straight, he does not have his team in the bottom of the Leastern Conference.
The reason why the Rockets had a winning record this year is because of Yao, not because of Francis. If the rockets were not lucky enough to get the first round pick they would still be losing. Francis does not have the leadership to make the team better by himself. Not only is he not a leader like Tmac, he is also not a GREAT player. He is a good player, but he is no where close to Tmac as a player and he would not contribute as much as Tmac has done to the Magic. Just look at the way he played this season. He is coming off his worst season in the NBA, shooting horribly and also feuding with coach Jeff Van Gundy. He is also among the top in turnovers per game. I find it funny that Francis nickname is titled the Franchise even though he is not even the franchise player of the Team, Yao is. Also stop blaming Tmac for the magic 19 games losing streak. The reasons why the MAgic lost 19 in a row was due to the lack of chemistry, poor TEAM defense, injuries, weak interior presence, and poor players selection from the Gm. On the flip side, if Tmac was playing for houston and Francis was playing for orlando you would be pissed as hell to trade Tmac for Francis.
There was no Yao in Francis' second season, a rookie Yao last season, yet they were still over .500. They weren't losing while Francis was healthy, they were an over .500 team with lottery team talent,last year aside from Francis and Yao they had lottery team talent. No superstar is a leader like McGrady, no superstar in history would lead his team to a last place finish. No he isn't the player McGrady is but YOU could have contributed as much to the Magic as McGrady did, I mean, YOU weren't going to have them anywhere lower than last place. You should ask Van Gundy if it was his worst season, he'd tell you he wasn't succesful, he was very successful, that from a coach he was feuding with! Every playmaking guard in the league will have a high amount of turnovers, especially on a team as sorry as the Rockets. Everyone knows the only reason he was nicknamed Franchise is because his last name is Francis... That's fine, but I can't think of another All-Star in the league that would lose 19 in a row... If McGrady had the Rockets in last place I'd be hoping for a winner like Francis... Just so we aren't getting off the subject... Give me Brand over McGrady...
Rockets should go for Brand because they are not getting Mcgrady! Not with a straight up deal for francis, anyway. The orlando magic fans would not have that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Rockets should go for Brand because they are not getting Mcgrady! Not with a straight up deal for francis, anyway. The orlando magic fans would not have that.</div> I wouldn't be so sure about that. Don't spout about things you have no idea of.
^any source to that? I haven't heard any trades that are a closer value to T-Mac than Francis. Although I'm sure many teams will be intrested in trading for McGrady I haven't heard any offers yet. Back to the topic.. If they could get either of these guys I would have to say go with Brand. He plays defense and works hard every night. You know what you will get from Elton almost every night - 20 and 10. I also think he would be a perfect fit next to Yao. Elton is a small PF and I think it would complement his game if he got to play with a huge center on the offensive end. Francis and their draft pick for Elton Brand? If I were the Rockets I would take that. from the Clippers point of view that might not be so bad either, considering they could draft Howard and they still have Wilcox.
JVG would balk over trading Jim Jackson... JJ is his favourite player and he does a lot of little things on the floor. The Rockets need Brand more than they need McGrady. Brand takes the pressure off Yao, something Cato could never do. He can hit the open 15 footer and also clean up the glass. Yao's not really a very strong rebounder, any Rockets fan should have noticed that by now. The Rockets primary focus this offseason will be finding a PF. Other than that, they should find a SF or SG who is a better passer than Mobley (or find a PG and move Francis to the 2). IMO Mobley should go back to the bench - the Rockets 2nd unit has no scoring in the backcourt which is why Francis, Mobley and Jackson have to play 40+ minutes every night.
Yeah johnny, thats very true.. The Rockets bench IS Mo Taylor.. No one else contributes consistently offensively... Look at the major bench players: C. Weatherspoon: He Really was a great down low, dirty man player, that cleaned up the trash and stuff, but, he cannot guard the KGs, TDs, and theres no way he can guard Shaq, tho a valiant effort was set forth in the Playoffs.. S. Padgett: I was very happy when we aquired him, I was so sure he'd be in the rotation.. His lack of defense and consistensy sat him on the bench, and outta the rotation.. E. Pitakowski (sp?): Another player i was very pleased to aquire, I thought we'd play him at SF, until J.J. came.. His barrage of airballs, and horrible defense put him on the bench and outta the rotation.. M. Taylor: The only reason this guy was on the Rockets ROSTER was because he could score.. Instant offense, ala NVE (see other board). Looking back at the season, I'm glad he dint win 6th man... he cant play defense, cant rebound, and in The Wild West, that aint good enuff.. He might play well in the East, so we could look to trade him.. If we can aquire Tmac, Brand, Mcdyess, anyone that can put up 15 a game, than we really can trade him.. McGrady scored more than Mobley and Cato combined, I think Brand is a little under.. Mcdyess was able to do it all, so he could score, and defend, which is what we have in Cato+Taylor. And hes cheaper too. M. Wilks: This guy reminds me of the undeveloped Eric Snow.. If we trade Francis and Mobley for McGrady, this guy could be a solid contender for starting PG. Why? He can make the mid-range shot, hes fast, passes better than Francis, and is a total role player. His season was, in my opinion, a C.. He dint get minutes, but in the minutes he had, i thought he did well for a back-up.. B. Nachbar: Nachbar was one of those players that was supposed to be great, but lack of experience and patience kills him.. Kinda like Darco, eh? Yeah he did alright, you sorta get the feeling that he tries to hard.. I give him a B.. for the performance he put on Malone.. hahahaha.. what good fun.. that was really great.. He can develop into a great Role Player, or Even a Super Star, but I'd rather see him at the backup 3, until J.J. leaves or retires.. I dont think Yao will grow biceps, i think the Rockets should accept that.. I've never seen a center like Yao, someone so huge, but someone so frail.. Yao neeeds a right hand, someoen who can Rebound, and block from the weak side.. Someone who can take double teams away from Yao, and draw his own double team.. Someone who can, for once, let Yao come from the weak side and get a block.. Sorta soemoen like Otis Thorpe was to Hakeem, a great role player, who did the things metioned above. Someone who could very well be Elton Brand or Antonio Mydyess.. Theres something to sleep on..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting magnomonkey:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont think Yao will grow biceps, i think the Rockets should accept that.. I've never seen a center like Yao, someone so huge, but someone so frail..</div> Hehe, what about Manute Bol?
I think Houston would be much better with McGrady rather than Brand, becuase McGrady is one of the hardest players in the NBA to gaurd.
