<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 18 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Still it's a bit weasely to say those things as a coach in a tell all book.without a doubt Jordan was driven and hard on his teamates. Yet he must have done it in such a way that he got the best out of them too. He relied on them more than Kobe does.and yes Jordan did have better teamates and therefore better success but there's no doubt they played better than they would have on an average NBA because of Jordan.</div>I don't know about that. Both guys needed their respective supporting casts to win rings, but MJ's role in his championship squads called for more isolation and scoring than Kobe's role on the Lakers, which was to be the playmaker. MJ definately did get the most out of his teammates most of the time because of his amazing competitiveness, but Kobe does very much the same with his teammates. The difference is that Kobe has teammates that are extremely soft (like Kwame, who MJ basically crushed when he was a teen) and they need a bit more of a nice and loose Kobe than a Kobe that will just destroy you in practice and be harsh on his teammates in and out of games. MJ had guys like Pippen and Kerr who would go back at him and play up to MJ's cometitiveness because of their toughness....Kobe doesn't have teammates like that.Of course they played better when they had the best player ever leading the way for them. But same can be said for Kobe...Shaq would have never won those rings without Kobe, and these past 2 seasons the Lakers would have had the worst record in the league had it not been for Kobe.
Also, the book was written by Sam smith who actually around the team at the time he was writing the book. He also was fed info by Phil. We also know Mj's Public comments about how he was tired of carrying Pip and Horace. The book is accurate just like Phil's book accurate. Mj being a prick isn't something new. It's also one of the reasons why he is the goat. He didn't take BS from teamates and from management.
We haven't heard once Kobe make disparaging comments about teamates. Imagine kobe telling kwame "Catch the freaking ball Samaki walker" or kobe yelling at Maurice evans "do you have brain". His whole team would break down mentally. Mj's teamates didn't, they came out and worked harder.Kobe's teamates? Lamar's busy with his record company, kwame's busy throwing cakes and Andrew's at maccas eating a big whoppa.We need to throw bias aside here. Bryant is a prick, a drama queen and a little brat. Yes we know that with his latest drama. But so was MJ. So why is Mj given a free pass and kobe isnt'? I tell you why, Winning heals wounds. Bryant is going to rock the eastern conference and wait till you see haters speechless and true 'laker fans" saying "OMG, he did in the east. Doesn't mean anything.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Jun 19 2007, 06:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We haven't heard once Kobe make disparaging comments about teamates. Imagine kobe telling kwame "Catch the freaking ball Samaki walker" or kobe yelling at Maurice evans "do you have brain". His whole team would break down mentally. Mj's teamates didn't, they came out and worked harder.Kobe's teamates? Lamar's busy with his record company, kwame's busy throwing cakes and Andrew's at maccas eating a big whoppa.We need to throw bias aside here. Bryant is a prick, a drama queen and a little brat. Yes we know that with his latest drama. But so was MJ. So why is Mj given a free pass and kobe isnt'? I tell you why, Winning heals wounds. Bryant is going to rock the eastern conference and wait till you see haters speechless and true 'laker fans" saying "OMG, he did in the east. Doesn't mean anything.</div>Right so Jordan was lucky he had teammates like that? No, it was because he was an actual leader. He knew what to say and to who. It's not luck. Kobe's not a leader. And soon everyone's gonna know how much of an ass he really is. TheKobeVideo.com. Can't wait till it's released. And so what if "haters" say that if Kobe wins in the East. They say that about LeBron now. And any other team in the East. What's your point? You're the one with bias. All Kobe homers (not even Laker homers just Kobe homers) blame his teammates for everything. No blame to Kobe. None. That's why I find opinions of homers trash. No offense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 18 2007, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know about that. Both guys needed their respective supporting casts to win rings, but MJ's role in his championship squads called for more isolation and scoring than Kobe's role on the Lakers, which was to be the playmaker. MJ definately did get the most out of his teammates most of the time because of his amazing competitiveness, but Kobe does very much the same with his teammates. The difference is that Kobe has teammates that are extremely soft (like Kwame, who MJ basically crushed when he was a teen) and they need a bit more of a nice and loose Kobe than a Kobe that will just destroy you in practice and be harsh on his teammates in and out of games. MJ had guys like Pippen and Kerr who would go back at him and play up to MJ's cometitiveness because of their toughness....Kobe doesn't have teammates like that.Of course they played better when they had the best player ever leading the way for them. But same can be said for Kobe...Shaq would have never won those rings without Kobe, and these past 2 seasons the Lakers would have had the worst record in the league had it not been for Kobe.</div>More of your what ifs. Kobe is always the unlucky one right? He should try leading for a change instead of crying all the time. Prime Shaq + Phil + any superstar guard = three-peat. Maybe more.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 19 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>More of your what ifs. Kobe is always the unlucky one right? He should try leading for a change instead of crying all the time. Prime Shaq + Phil + any superstar guard = three-peat. Maybe more.</div>It's not a matter of being unlucky, it's just that Kobe needs to take a different approach with his teammates than MJ had to take. Haha you're a moron. You SEVERELY underestimate what Kobe did for that team. He had to be the playmaker, had to score an upwards of 29PPG and had to do it on a good shooting %, had to guard the other team's best perimeter player, and also HAD to take over down the stretch as Shaq is either riding the bench or not getting touches down the stretch due to FT shooting. T-Mac couldn't have done what Kobe did, AI couldn't have done what Kobe did, etc...Also, you say sh*t about me with the what if statements, yet you come right back and say that if another superstar guard was on the Lakers they would have tied or excceeded what Kobe did with the team. Hypocrite. You're a joke, man.PS- You use the Kobe video, which he basically says that he wanted Kidd and doesnt care about Bynum's potentional, to show how much of an a$$ and "bad leader" he is, yet you totally dismiss VERY similar things MJ said about manangement and his teammates. Again, you're a hypocrite.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 19 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's not a matter of being unlucky, it's just that Kobe needs to take a different approach with his teammates than MJ had to take. Haha you're a moron. You SEVERELY underestimate what Kobe did for that team. He had to be the playmaker, had to score an upwards of 29PPG and had to do it on a good shooting %, had to guard the other team's best perimeter player, and also HAD to take over down the stretch as Shaq is either riding the bench or not getting touches down the stretch due to FT shooting. T-Mac couldn't have done what Kobe did, AI couldn't have done what Kobe did, etc...Also, you say sh*t about me with the what if statements, yet you come right back and say that if another superstar guard was on the Lakers they would have tied or excceeded what Kobe did with the team. Hypocrite. You're a joke, man.PS- You use the Kobe video, which he basically says that he wanted Kidd and doesnt care about Bynum's potentional, to show how much of an a$$ and "bad leader" he is, yet you totally dismiss VERY similar things MJ said about manangement and his teammates. Again, you're a hypocrite.</div>I stated a what if because you doing it jackass. Show me a video of Jordan being an ass. Dumb ass Kobe homer. You're the joke. You probably rape white women to show your devotion to Kobe Bryant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 19 2007, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I stated a what if because you doing it jackass. Show me a video of Jordan being an ass. Dumb ass Kobe homer. You're the joke. You probably rape white women to show your devotion to Kobe Bryant.</div>Haha, you're so naive to think Jordan wasn't an ass to teammates, manangement and even Phil at times. I have read The Last Season, and just minutes ago went to B&N to pick up the Jordan Rules, so after I get done reading it (probably by end of weekend) I will give you my interpretation of the quotes, both from Jordan himself, to Phil, and according to the back of the book, his teammates as well.And once again, it is hilarious for you to call me a Kobe homer since I probably wouldn't even consider him one of my 3 favorite players and sometimes even called a Kobe hater. I explained my views in my first post, and since then I have just defended Kobe to show that what he is doing now isn't far from Jordan. I am also posting to debate against people like you, who think Jordan could do no wrong, be it with teammates or manangement, and was the best at every aspect of the game. Melo061 made a good point...winning hides everything. MJ was considered selfish and such by most before he started winning. When he started winning, the media hopped onto his d*ck big time, and despite his playing style staying the same for the most part (along with his attitude), he was now percieved as the ultimate team player. It's funny how winning makes things right (as seen with a huge amount of people becoming Kobe fans and claiming Kobe had turned another cheek earlier this season when Lakers were like 30-17).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 19 2007, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Haha, you're so naive to think Jordan wasn't an ass to teammates, manangement and even Phil at times.</div>That is EXACTLY what im saying. Jordan cheated on his wife Juanita, cursed at Pippen for not passing him the ball, got into a fight with one of his teammates. But yet, Jordan seems to get a free pass. No matter what Kobe does he will be criticized.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (junit @ Jun 21 2007, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That is EXACTLY what im saying. Jordan cheated on his wife Juanita, cursed at Pippen for not passing him the ball, got into a fight with one of his teammates. But yet, Jordan seems to get a free pass. No matter what Kobe does he will be criticized.</div>yeah but Jordan didn't rape anyone and pay to make it go away
If he 'raped' somebody then why didn't get convicted? Exactly the girl knew the sex was consentual so she saved herself the embarassment.
Hilarious. Kate faber had like 8 different semen on her. There was simply not enough evidence for her story so then she went after a civil suit. There is no proof that kobe did it so Innocent untill proven guilty.
Hilarious that people still pull the rape card. The man was never convicted of anything. And maybe it's just me, but if somebody raped you wouldn't you want them to face the consequences? Instead, this supposed "victim" wanted no part of the criminal trial, rather she wanted to just proceed with her civil suit so she could get the money.As far as the attitude thing, Jordan was a bigger prick than Kobe. When has Kobe ever called out his teammates in public? There is this supposed video, but that's not something that was suppose to be public as he was being taped unknowingly. Meanwhile Jordan publicly stated that he was "tired of carrying Scottie and Horace's ass'." He also got on his teammates in the middle of games.You can certainly say that Kobe is equal to Jordan as far as basketball skills go; even better in some aspects. But to me what puts Jordan on another level above Kobe, a level all by himself, is the will to win that he possessed. More importantly what he did when the game was on the line. For example, take a look at this:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"The Clutch Factor"Stop saying Kobe Bryant is one of the most clutch players ever.Please watch film of Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, Robert Horry, and how about? Michael Jordan?These are approximations because it is difficult to define "clutch". Here we have defined it as shots within the last 24 seconds of a game within 2 points.Game winning shotsMichael Jordan: 33 out of 58 attempts (56.9%)Kobe Bryant: 7 out of 32 attempts (21.9%)Michael Jordan has the most known game winning shots of any player in NBA history. He has by far the highest conversion rate in the clutch.Michael Jordan led countless 4th quarter comebacks in which he singlehandedly won the game throughout his career.Among Kobe?s 32 clutch opportunities, he has yet to pass the ball to another player. He has by far the most end of game situations with no assists of any player in NBA history. He has one of the lowest conversion rates in the clutch.Game winning shots in the playoffsKobe: 5Jordan: Approximately 15 (it may be more, his early career boxscores are real real hard to find but Sean found 99% of them)</div>http://kobevsjordan.bravehost.com/part_2.html
Jordan playing in this year wouldve been drawing fouls all over the place, hes ppg wouldve been way higher if he played today in his prime.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thabo @ Jun 22 2007, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You can certainly say that Kobe is equal to Jordan as far as basketball skills go; even better in some aspects. But to me what puts Jordan on another level above Kobe, a level all by himself, is the will to win that he possessed. More importantly what he did when the game was on the line. For example, take a look at this:http://kobevsjordan.bravehost.com/part_2.html</div>I don't know where they got their stats, but they are mistaken:http://youtube.com/watch?v=NwnKpUGfl4Yhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=hsCanLulkrchttp://youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zIhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=OFa5FB-qrt4And Kobe has had a game winning assist, most notabl;y the one to Horry in the playoffs. He also had 22 assists in the clutch this season (aka last 5min of game that is within 5pts I believe) according to 82games.com.Take the stat for what it's worth, but a few years ago on NBAWire someone said Kobe had something like 25 career game winning shots. I cannot back that up, so take it for what it's worth.PS- Clutch isn't just hitting the game winner (which MJ, stats aside, was simply better at due to shot selection). Kobe, much like MJ, simply takes over games in the clutch. Hell, he had the most clutch performance of the regular season this year without even hitting the GW (Blazers game).In past seasons, check out games like the one versus Orlando where in the 4th he shut down T-Mac while dropping 24 in the 4th, including the game tying shot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Apr 14 2007, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think Kobe is great, but he is not Jordan.</div> yeah Kobe is not Jordan. Michael is Jordan,Kobe is Bryant <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Apr 14 2007, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why do people always say that? They always say sh*t like "Kobe isn't even close" like Jordan's untouchable or something. I mean, I don't care too much about this sort of comparison, in the end I just want Kobe to be the best Laker ever (being the best Laker ever is more prestigious than being the best Bull ever). But, the two players are INDENTICAL when they play. I mean they do the same things. It's hard not to wonder. But you really can't make this comparison when one of the players is the most beloved and the other is hated by everybody. Both players are judged by bias and ignorant opinions. Jordan that he's never going to be touched (bullsh**) and that Kobe is nowhere near him (also bullsh**). People are too biased towards Jordan while been to biased against Kobe. If the guy becomes better than Jordan it's because he earned it with hard work. Kobe busts his ass when he plays, he lives and breathes basketball, I think he deserves just a little bit more respect than what he's getting. These Jordan lovers are ridiculous and blind.What bothers me is, that Kobe is the closest thing since MJ yet everybody says that he can't even be compared. But LeBron James on the other hand, is a mirror-f*cking image. Let's get real.</div>I don't know what to say.very good post.its true all of it.
I can name to you more than 7 gamewinning shots by bryant off the top of my head2005-2006 regular seasonLakers vs Nuggets Lakers vs clippers Bryant hits the shot which won the game, smush's dunk at the end of the game meant nothing, the steal did thoughLakers vs clevelandLakers vs suns Playoffs2004-2005 seasonLakers vs bobcats2003-2004Lakers vs blazers (big 3 at end of ot)Lakers vs Nuggets (Jumper at buzzerLakers bs blazers again (lay up to take the lead with 31 ticks left)Lakers vs Bucks (Jumper in ot with 25 ticks left)That's 9 gamewinning shots but it doesn't take into account all of the gametying or momentum breaking shots bryant makes.Oh and btw, if anyone is wondering here is his other gamewinners1) 12/27/99: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (g-winning FTs)2) 02/13/00: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT g-winning layup with the and-1)3) 05/10/00: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)4) 06/14/00: Lakers 120 - Pacers 118 (NBA Finals, off reb and put back)5) 11/16/00: Lakers 112 - Kings 110 (OT g-tying 3 pointer for OT, & jumper for win)6) 02/07/01: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 sec)7) 01/02/02: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off reb and the jumper)8) 02/22/02: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater jumper)9) 03/24/02: Lakers 97 - Kings 96 (fade-away with 36 sec)10) 05/12/02: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (playoffs, off reb for the put back)11) 12/06/02: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)12) 04/04/03: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater jumper)13) 04/06/03: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (final jumper with 28.6 sec)
