Hey just wondering, what happened to Luol Deng? When's he coming back, and how does the Salmons/Deng scenario play out?
Just a quick correction, you didn't make Kobe shoot 6/10 from the free throw line, TS% is not perfect in that sense. Efficiency fieldgoal was better than FG%, since he broke even on three pointers.
He got sand in his vagina and seems to be out for the year (but will be fine just in time for the European Championship!!!).
Bulls don't need scoring from BG to win. He was the third and fourth leading scorer in their last two wins I think. What the bulls do need is for BG not to be a TO machine. If BG limits his TO's it doesn't matter if he has another off shooting night. But when he starts throwing fast breaks to the opponent, that's when the bulls aren't going to win.
agreed. to's are an instant rhythm killer he had 7 mf'ing of them! not to mention the quick horrible shots are just as bad. it'll be great when vdn figures out what the rest of us knows which is gordon is not a heavy minutes player. -14 for the night 40 minutes played. horrific. imo, the better salmons, rose, any any other player are gordon gets all insecure and starts trying to be more then he is and it hurts the team. i guess i shouldn't be surprised he is a typical all about me, myself, and i player.
oh and i forgot to mention, vdn inability to understand the limitations players have is the reason he is a joke as a nba coach. how can you prepare for knowing your competition when you don't even know your own players. he needs to be fired.
This game was a prime example as to why Gordon isn't a point guard. Just will end up not working, even in Miami with Wade managing most of the ball handling duties. Bulls have tried this many times and it always end up with the same result.
Listen to the ridiculous arguments you guys are making. The Bulls don't need Ben Gordon to score to win? Maybe not a single game, but over the course of the season we need him to score to win, and we've greatly depended on him to win, as evidenced by him leading the team in win shares. He's averaging 20.4 PPG on 57.4 TS%, which is great. Yes, Gordon hurt the Bulls. But come on, how many games have there been this season where Gordon missed 4 wide open threes and turned the ball over 7 times? (I can count it on one finger....) Rose/Gordon/Salmons with Hinrich at backup and a bit of Thomas is the part of the Bulls that is fine. The sorry front court is what needs to be fixed.
BG has scored 25+ 18 times. He's had at least as many TO's as Ast's 27 times and more TO's than ast's 20 times. Bulls are 7-9 when BG scores 25+. The Bulls are 5-15 when BG has more TO's than Ast's. So it's actually a lot more important that BG doesn't rack up the TO's than that he scores big. My own pet theory on that one is that the fabled "BG TO" is more likely to result in a fastbreak layup, but that's completely unsubstantiated at this point. But I am working on that... And while 20.4 ppg and 57.4 TS% is the best on this current team, historically, it's not that great.
And by not that great, you mean not as good as Jordan. Not as good as Kobe. Not as good as Wade. Why are we comparing Ben to these guys again? Sure, guys can do that once in their career, but this is now Gordon's second time. Look at the list of guys who have done what Gordon has scoring wise over the past 3 years. http://www.basketball-reference.com...=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts_per_g
Here's a better comparison: http://www.basketball-reference.com...usg_pct&c4comp=gt&c4val=25&order_by=pts_per_g You're right that BG is a special player. Just not in an exceptionally great way. His TS and ppg don't translate into something bigger. In the history of the NBA there have only been a few players as mediocre overall as BG while shooting as well and as often as he does. Based on PER, he is 198 out of 198 guys with a TS%, PPG and USG at least as high as he has over the history of the NBA. You could say no one has done less with as much as BG has. http://www.basketball-reference.com...c4val=25&order_by=per&order_by_asc=Y&offset=0 In fact, the average PER for guys who averaged between 19 and 22 ppg with a TS% at least as high as BG is 21.83214286, that's more than 5 pts higher than BG's current 16.8. Please stop telling us how special he is. Based on what I've seen of Salmons the last few weeks, I'm pretty sure that a lineup of Rose, Salmons, and Deng (if he's healthy) with Kirk off of the bench does better than one with BG as the starting SG and any combination of the other guys around him.
Ben is what he is. He's a great scorer, and he comes with his deficiencies, but also comes with a great clutch ability that helps to negate those deficiencies. The facts on Ben are this. He is currently one of the best fastbreak players in the NBA. We are trying to build an up tempo system here around Derrick Rose. He is the best young three point shooter in NBA history. He is 7 three pointers away from setting the record for most three pointers made in the first five years of a players career. Of the guys in the top 100, Gordon has the third highest percentage....and the two guys with a higher percentage made less than half the number of threes Ben has. Three point shooters are always a necessity on championship teams, and they usually get better at shooting the three as their career goes on. Since entering the NBA, Ben Gordon is tied for the fifth most game winners made, with 13 career game winners. All the other players ahead of him had 1 more season though in the 82games.com stats...but because Carter/Allen were among the leaders in 03-04, we can subtract their totals....so now lets amend that to at least being tied for third since entering the league, only behind Lebron James (17) and Kobe Bryant (14)....Gordon shoots a higher percent than both on game winners. (It's also quite possible that Kobe is tied with Gordon at 13, or even at 12 since Gordon's been in the league. Couldn't find whether he's hit any game winners in 2003-2004 season or not). So what's this place Gordon at? One of the best clutch scorers in the league. We've seen just this year a 4 point shot against the Clippers that got us back into the game which we won. He had the game winning 4 point shot against the Pistons. He went on a massive three point barrage and hit another big three pointer to bring it to the second overtime, so please don't come in with that BG's not clutch anymore crap. So what are the facts on Gordon to summarize? -Very good scorer. Volume with a high TS% -One of the best fastbreak players in the NBA. -The best young three point shooter in NBA history. -Super clutch (at 13 three pointers made, he's already halfway to Jordan's 25 game winners. If Gordon signs a 6 year deal with the Bulls, he could set the record for most Bulls game winners....) We know Ben Gordon isn't a number one option, so stop judging him to be one. Derrick Rose is supposed to be the number one guy and superstar on this team. Gordon is just holding down the fort while Rose develops. When Rose develops, he will need a #2 scorer, a good #3 scorer. Gordon/Salmons fit into that perfectly. Gordon/Salmons =/= Salmons/Deng. Deng stinks now. His TS% has been poor every yera but 06-07. He is officially injury prone. If Deng returned to 06-07 form, than he would be perfect to keep. But all signs point to him not being that player. Ben Gordon is a special player. Not a special player in the great Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Lebron James sense. But a special player because of his innate abilities. His great three point shooting, his great fastbreak instincts, and his clutch ability are what makes him so valuable. Yes, he has his deficincies, but when you have a solid front court, as evidenced in 04-05 through 06-07, those deficincies don't even matter.
This game put me in a bad mood for all of Saturday evening. I was so confident they would win this too and they looked amazing the first half of play. As soon as my roommate's bad luck girlfriend walked in the door, they started losing. I can't forgive her for this.
Where do you come up with this stuff? How could you possibly say that? If you're not his publicist...
I don't have the exact numbers you can find those if you want, but Gordon is among the league leaders in fastbreak points. Crazy to call a guy that does that as one of the best fastbreak players in the league.
I'm going to have to see a source before I believe that one. I'm still waiting for a source on the score by quarters ranking as well.
