The Bulls Just Fired One Of The Best Coaches In The NBA http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-bulls-just-fired-one-of-the-best-coaches-in-nba-history/ FiveThirtyEight > _GB
It shouldn't read "538 says", it should read "Neil Payne says", just the same as we say "KC Johnson says" or "Cowley says". It also reinforces that it's just another pundit with an opinion, and not even a very well known pundit. And still it doesn't obviate my argument: That Thibs was outstanding in some areas of his job, and decidedly less so in others. People with an elite skill or two who are otherwise not well-rounded get fired from their jobs everyday. But go ahead and refuse to look at the big picture. Just narrow in and focus on the good he did and ignore the rest. As I said before, there are only two people left mourning for him, and both of them post on this board. Even Rose has moved on. "Rose, who works well with all coaches and respected Tom Thibodeau, has told confidantes he's excited by the Fred Hoiberg hire." (I respected Thibs too.) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...utler-bits-bulls-spt-0627-20150626-story.html
Attack the source. That's standard operating procedure. Paine works for one of the top analytics sites out there and also is an analytics consultant for the Atlanta Hawks. Wow, obviate. Maybe you should work for FiveThirtyEight! (think they would hire you to be "just another pundit?") Yup, no kidding, no one is perfect. The great ones are better than the very good ones who are better than the average ones. Thibs was one of the great ones. He's on the Mt Rushmore of Bulls coaches after all. I was just responding to something you wrote, if you care to look. (By the way, you are the one who mentions Thibs in your sig. Seems like a strange thing to do if you are not interested in talking about him) Over the last 5 years, yes, the Bulls have been able to basically acquire anyone and get the most out of them. That was the Thibs' Bulls though. Now we're onto the GarPax/Freddy Del Hoiberg Bulls. It remains to be seen if that trend will continue. As Bulls fans, let's hope it does, right? That "win later" team for two years from now is going to need some work.
I'd allow that he was one of the Bulls best coaches. Zero disagreement there. His stature among the NBA coaching greats is yet to be determined.
By many metrics, he's had one of the best 5 year runs of the modern NBA. Even more impressive given the roster instability and contentious, undermining, smearing management at times. Obviously no championship, so one can just say "regular season" if they want to. Some measures indicate he got his teams to overachieve in the playoffs as well. Its safe to say he never lost a playoff series that he should have won. Some were saying that about the Cavs series from this year, but then the Cavs swept the Hawks so that pretty much killed that argument. Let's hope Freddy Del Hoiberg is at least above average.
Thibs won't be generally recognized as one of the all-time greats, or get inducted into the basketball hall of fame as a coach, based solely on a statistically significant five year run as a head coach. If he retired tomorrow he'd be well remembered and very well respected, but little more.
Is there really much more? Well remembered and very well respected. Needed a championship to start talking HOF as a head coach, I agree. He'll also be known as a basketball innovator whose defense was adopted league wide. A true innovator. What D'Antoni is to modern NBA offense Thibs was to NBA defense. And of course he's on the Mt Rushmore of Bulls coaches. Olympic goal medal. NBA Championship ring. One of the elite 5 year head coaching runs without winning a championship in NBA history. Let's hope Freddy Del Hoiberg is at least a competent NBA head coach. He could not even get his NCAA team to win a 1st round game last season.
The players are excited, his peers and the pundits are generally optimistic. Thibs wasn't returning, so lets live in reality, not the twilight zone. Was there another coach on the market you'd have preferred? D'Antoni? Mark Jackson? Make the case for your coach of choice. And again, Thibs is not an option.
You've posted to this article a couple of times and to be honest, it doesn't do anything for me. The chart seems to suggest that you can tell Thibodeau is a good coach because his teams outperform their preseason projections, which makes some sense, but then Paine never bothers to explain his methodology. I'm not going to put much stock in that. If we're looking for a cheap shot, there's also the last couple sentences of the article: Line of teams? The Pels are going to be unstoppable with Thibdoeau as coach.
I would not expect it to, given your stance. The article is written by an analytics consultant for the Atlanta Hawks and a senior writer for one of the top analytics sites out there. The Hawks are one of the "smart" teams, yes? Budenholzer. Pops lineage. Low minutes loads. (did worse against Lebron than the Thibs team this season though, so that's not the best for the pro hawks crowd) Any article anyone posts just gets "attack the sourced" anyway, which is easy to do for whatever stance one has pretty much. Thibs' record speaks for itself. One of the best 5 year stretches of all time in the regular season and he also got his teams to do better in the playoffs than projected as well. Coach of the year. Team USA gold medalist. League wide defensive innovator. NBA champion as an assistant head coach as well before joining the Bulls. Let's hope that Freddy Del Hoiberg can be at least a competent NBA head coach. His most recent coaching job ended with him not able to get his team out of the 1st round of the NCAA tournament against an inferior team. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...-fire-head-coach-tom-thibodeau-161751861.html Now let's pile on Kelly Dwyer.
I'll reserve judgement on Freddy Del Hoiberg until I see him for a year or two. He deserves a chance. Let's hope he's at least competent. Many people are very high on him, so maybe he's good. Most NBA head coaches don't really add value. Thibs on the other hand was obviously one of the best coaches of the modern NBA and certainly added value. His record speaks for itself. Short of winning a championship, he had one of the best 5 year runs of all-time, despite very trying circumstances. Extrapolate what Thibs did for more seasons and you at least have Jerry Sloan, who is considered to be one of the best ever by many. Too bad Bulls management decided to undermine and smear him this season, when the Bulls were a whisper away from likely making the NBA Finals.
With regard to the Paine article, the preseason projections are based on the "Simple Projection System" From the source:
No, we have not. Thibs was one of the greatest coaches in the modern NBA. The results speak for themselves. Del Hoiberg might be a good coach, he might be a bad coach. He will be hard pressed to have a 5 year run like Thibs did. Domination in the regular season and also getting the team to do better than expected in the playoffs as well, despite roster instability and a smearing, undermining management during a season when the Bulls were a whisper away from the NBA Finals.
Yes, its a simple system. Did you not read this part or not include it on purpose? Seems like the author is saying its a simple system, but they also anticipate it will hold up well against others. If they felt it was garbage, they probably would not publish it. (basketball reference and paine) Attack the source, attack the source, attack the source.....
