Bynum is better than Shaq

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Lakers' started by notmuchgame, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    He's not a Blazers fan...

    Fine. Beasley hasn't proven anything on this level, so I'd rather have Jason Collins.
     
  2. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 26 2007, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 26 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Proven commodity? He's having one good year!</div>
    Then what does that make Greg Oden? In that case, Oden hasn't proven anything in the next level, which is a fact. He has been injured the entire season.
    </div>

    Your response doesn't make sense. His point is that you are dealing with the potential of both players.
    </div>
    What do you mean? He said Bynum is not a proven commodity, so that means Oden is even less of a proven commodity
     
  3. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 26 2007, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ Dec 26 2007, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That post you made prior to this one was to baised.</div>
    So you're calling me biased? Wow. I'm not the guy who ranked Greg Oden up with Dwight Howard even though Oden hasn't even played a single game in the NBA yet. Talk about who's being biased. And please tell me why my last post was biased, because last I checked, those were facts.
    </div>

    Being biased doesn't mean one isn't using facts. You used selective facts that made your description of the players sound biased.

    As far as DHo, last season there were plenty of people questioning how good he would become and slamming his (lack of an) offensive game. Yet some still went through the debates and held fast to their belief in DHo's potential.
     
  4. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's not a Blazers fan...

    Fine. Beasley hasn't proven anything on this level, so I'd rather have Jason Collins.</div>
    This post doesn't prove anything. Collins has already proven he is not a great NBA player, Beasley and Collins are no where near the same age. Collins is a center, Beasley is a foward. So what are you trying to prove here?
     
  5. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 26 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 26 2007, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 26 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Proven commodity? He's having one good year!</div>
    Then what does that make Greg Oden? In that case, Oden hasn't proven anything in the next level, which is a fact. He has been injured the entire season.
    </div>

    Your response doesn't make sense. His point is that you are dealing with the potential of both players.
    </div>
    What do you mean? He said Bynum is not a proven commodity, so that means Oden is even less of a proven commodity
    </div>

    Again that makes no sense. No one is attempting to represent Oden as a proven commodity. However, people are taking issue with the declaration that Bynum is a proven commodity.

    Bynum has proven something at the NBA level (and yes obviously more than Oden), but any discussion about him is still based upon the potential of what he could become.
     
  6. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    I'm saying NBA success is in no way the be all and end all in deciding the potential in players.
     
  7. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 26 2007, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's not a Blazers fan...

    Fine. Beasley hasn't proven anything on this level, so I'd rather have Jason Collins.</div>
    This post doesn't prove anything. Collins has already proven he is not a great NBA player, Beasley and Collins are no where near the same age. Collins is a center, Beasley is a foward. So what are you trying to prove here?
    </div>

    The ridiculousness of your statement. He is using the same logic you used and demonstrating the fallacy of it.
     
  8. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 26 2007, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Being biased doesn't mean one isn't using facts. You used selective facts that made your description of the players sound biased.</div>
    What more do you want me to say?

    "Player X is one year younger than player Y. Player X was a great defensive presence in college. He proved he can play in college competition, but has never stepped foot onto an NBA court. Player X gets injured in his rookie year and has micro-fracture surgery, with durability concerns already mentioned before the draft. And during his year in college, he was playing with an injured wrist.

    Player Y is only one year older than player X. Player Y is already in his 3rd season in the league. Player Y has shown great improvement in each of his seasons in the league. Player Y is currently averaging a double double and two blocks, player Y was once hated by the best player in the league, who just happened to be his teammate. Player Y has changed the best player in the league's opinion of him in just one offseason, and is now being praised for his improvement and work ethic. Player Y has already proven he can play in NBA competition, already outplaying many of his opposing centers. Some names being Chris Kaman and Amare Stoudimire. Player Y has not missed a single game due to injury, let alone an entire season. Actually, player Y has not been injured at all ever since coming into the league."

    What more do you want me to add? What do you want me to add to player X? That he was dominant in high school? What does that prove. A lot of NBA players were dominant in high school. I already said he proved himself in college competition, which is true. I said he hasn't stepped a foot onto the NBA court, which is true. That also means he has not proven anything in the next level, which is also true. What more do you want me to add to player X? What do you want me to delete or add to player Y?
     
  9. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 26 2007, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 26 2007, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's not a Blazers fan...

    Fine. Beasley hasn't proven anything on this level, so I'd rather have Jason Collins.</div>
    This post doesn't prove anything. Collins has already proven he is not a great NBA player, Beasley and Collins are no where near the same age. Collins is a center, Beasley is a foward. So what are you trying to prove here?
    </div>

    The ridiculousness of your statement. He is using the same logic you used and demonstrating the fallacy of it.
    </div>
    How is he using the same logic? Please tell me. Collins and Beasley aren't anywhere near the same age, they don't even play the same position. How does this anything to do with Bynum and Oden, who both play the same position, and both are reletively the same age?

    And unlike Bynum, Collins has already shown that he is not a good NBA player.

    The comparison is irrelevant
     
  10. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    Beasley hasn't stepped on an NBA court. Collins has. Therefore, Collins is infinitely better than Beasley.

    And FYI, Collins has played PF, especially when starting with Krstic.
     
  11. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Beasley hasn't stepped on an NBA court. Collins has. Therefore, Collins is infinitely better than Beasley.

    And FYI, Collins has played PF, especially when starting with Krstic.</div>
    Collins is probably 10 years older than Beasley, what are you trying to prove? Collins has already proven that he is not a great player in the league, seeing how Net fans continue complaining about him.

    And once again, I'm not saying Oden won't be as good as Bynum, or even better, all I'm saying is that if I were to choose right now, my pick would be Bynum. It's not like Bynum is some super stiff like Collins and has the entire fan base asking the coach to bench him.

    If it's a toss up between two young, promising centers, I'd rather pick the one who has already shown he can put up a double double and two blocks as opposed to someone who is going to sit on the bench for the entire season because he is injured. At least Bynum has already proven he can play at the next level, while Oden still has not.
     
  12. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    Jason Collins is playing at the next level. Just not succeeding.
     
  13. Brand New

    Brand New so wavy

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Collins is playing at the next level. Just not succeeding.</div>
    How is he playing at the next level and not succeeding?Makes no sense whatsoever.
     
  14. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    Player X has long been the number one ranked player in his High School class. Some NBA personnel people said that Player X could join the NBA as a High School Junior and have an impact in the NBA.

    Player Y was a borderline Top 50 recruit the summer before his senior season. By the end of his senior season he became ranked in the Top 10 and caught the attention of NBA scouts that thought he could be a good center in two or three years. Player Y's ceiling was never viewed to be close to the average expectations of Player X.
     
  15. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Collins is playing at the next level. Just not succeeding.</div>
    Then what's your point. Andrew Bynum is playing at the next level, and he is succeeding
     
  16. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Dec 26 2007, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm saying NBA success is in no way the be all and end all in deciding the potential in players.</div>


    There's my point.
     
  17. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 26 2007, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Player X has long been the number one ranked player in his High School class. Some NBA personnel people said that Player X could join the NBA as a High School Junior and have an impact in the NBA.</div>
    Who cares what he was ranked at in high school. How high were guys like Kwame Brown ranked? Josh McRoberts? Shavlik Randolph? Those guys were all supposed to be top talents in high school, but look at them now. Dajuan Wagner once scored 100 points in high school, he was nothing special in the league. Many players were ranked high in highschool, but doesn't mean they will succeed in the NBA.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Player Y was a borderline Top 50 recruit the summer before his senior season. By the end of his senior season he became ranked in the Top 10 and caught the attention of NBA scouts that thought he could be a good center in two or three years. Player Y's ceiling was never viewed to be close to the average expectations of Player X.</div>
    Because player Y was practically unknown. I read that he didn't even touch a basketball until he was in high school. Who cares what player Y's ceiling was viewed as. Gilbert Arenas wasn't supposed to be special, look at him now. Manu Ginobli was practically unheard of, and barely got drafted. Carlos Boozer got drafted in the second round. I'm guessing nobody thought those three's ceilings were as high as someone like Mike Dunleavy, who was a lottery pick. Marvin Williams was drafted #2 overall because of his "ceiling." He was drafted ahead of both Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

    Who cares how high Oden was ranked in highschool. It doesn't mean anything in the next level. Who cares about how high his ceiling is. Many players were drafted because of their "high ceiling," but it doesn't mean that they will live up to all that potential.

    Once again, I'm not saying Oden won't be better than Bynum. All I'm saying is, if there are two young centers, relatively the same age, both with tons of potential, I would rather choose the one who is averaging a double double to go along with two blocks, rather than the other who is supposed to be the next big thing, but is sitting on the bench the whole season because of injury.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Bynum's better than Wilt. Wilt's dead.
     
  19. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    I love it, you are asking what could be added to tell an unbiased story and then you want to remove the stuff that takes out the bias.

    The point is that we are talking about Greg Oden, not Kwame Brown, not even Eddy Curry (who was ranked higher than Kwame). Oden's potential has been off the charts for years and it is hard to even quantify in a few short sentences. For example, simply stating that LeBron was the #1 ranked recruit in his class and that Luol Deng was the #2 ranked recruit doesn't begin to explain the differences in the expectations of them.

    The Oden back story is essentially that there are NBA personnel people that thought as a HS junior he could be doing in the NBA what Bynum is doing right now in averaging a double double with a couple of blocks. So it is nice that Bynum is doing that in his third NBA season.
     
  20. o.iatlhawksfan

    o.iatlhawksfan ROFLMFAO!!!!

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    I remember excutives and NBA scouts saying, they would have chosen Oden #1 in his shopmore year @ High School, over D Ho.
    Add that to you comparison.
     

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