<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 2 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>eddie jordan is the best coach out of scott and frank, BTW. i REALLY wish we had him. man, we had top notch assistants back in our hayday. frank, cartwright, eddie jordan, o koren on the bench with scott</div> And out of Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Vince Carter, I'd say our best player is Jason Collins. What now? </div> The Finals Nets were not an overly talented team. Rather they were a team known for playing extremely well together. Players like Lucious Harris, Aaron Williams, etc, were nothing before those years and nothing much after. Fast forward to the present, Scott's team is play disciplined, hard fought basketball. The Nets play some of the laziest, sloppy basketball I have ever seen. I get that the Nets roster has some holes, but the effort and execution is embarrassing for an NBA team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 2 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>eddie jordan is the best coach out of scott and frank, BTW. i REALLY wish we had him. man, we had top notch assistants back in our hayday. frank, cartwright, eddie jordan, o koren on the bench with scott</div> And out of Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Vince Carter, I'd say our best player is Jason Collins. What now? </div> The Finals Nets were not an overly talented team. Rather they were a team known for playing extremely well together. Players like Lucious Harris, Aaron Williams, etc, were nothing before those years and nothing much after. Fast forward to the present, Scott's team is play disciplined, hard fought basketball. The Nets play some of the laziest, sloppy basketball I have ever seen. I get that the Nets roster has some holes, but the effort and execution is embarrassing for an NBA team. </div> Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.</div> Or, for that sake, half as good as a defender as Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, or Jason Kidd.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 2 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>eddie jordan is the best coach out of scott and frank, BTW. i REALLY wish we had him. man, we had top notch assistants back in our hayday. frank, cartwright, eddie jordan, o koren on the bench with scott</div> And out of Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Vince Carter, I'd say our best player is Jason Collins. What now? </div> The Finals Nets were not an overly talented team. Rather they were a team known for playing extremely well together. Players like Lucious Harris, Aaron Williams, etc, were nothing before those years and nothing much after. Fast forward to the present, Scott's team is play disciplined, hard fought basketball. The Nets play some of the laziest, sloppy basketball I have ever seen. I get that the Nets roster has some holes, but the effort and execution is embarrassing for an NBA team. </div> Pulling straws, and the fact that you claim that this is Thorn's biggest mistake(or a mistake for that matter) just cracks me up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 2 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>eddie jordan is the best coach out of scott and frank, BTW. i REALLY wish we had him. man, we had top notch assistants back in our hayday. frank, cartwright, eddie jordan, o koren on the bench with scott</div> And out of Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Vince Carter, I'd say our best player is Jason Collins. What now? </div> The Finals Nets were not an overly talented team. Rather they were a team known for playing extremely well together. Players like Lucious Harris, Aaron Williams, etc, were nothing before those years and nothing much after. Fast forward to the present, Scott's team is play disciplined, hard fought basketball. The Nets play some of the laziest, sloppy basketball I have ever seen. I get that the Nets roster has some holes, but the effort and execution is embarrassing for an NBA team. </div> Pulling straws, and the fact that you claim that this is Thorn's biggest mistake(or a mistake for that matter) just cracks me up. </div> Pulling straws? The signs of a well coached team are preparedness, not making mental mistakes, giving consistent effort. Can you honestly say the current Nets do any of those well? I've made no secrets of Scott's deficiencies. I've admitted there are weak spots on the Nets roster. But a majority of the people replying here seem to have their head in sand about how poorly the current Nets squad is playing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.</div> Or, for that sake, half as good as a defender as Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, or Jason Kidd. </div> I am not asking the current Nets to run teams out of the gym like the Scott Nets, or win as many games as Scott's Hornets, but level of play of Frank's Nets is embarrassing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 2 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>eddie jordan is the best coach out of scott and frank, BTW. i REALLY wish we had him. man, we had top notch assistants back in our hayday. frank, cartwright, eddie jordan, o koren on the bench with scott</div> And out of Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Vince Carter, I'd say our best player is Jason Collins. What now? </div> The Finals Nets were not an overly talented team. Rather they were a team known for playing extremely well together. Players like Lucious Harris, Aaron Williams, etc, were nothing before those years and nothing much after. Fast forward to the present, Scott's team is play disciplined, hard fought basketball. The Nets play some of the laziest, sloppy basketball I have ever seen. I get that the Nets roster has some holes, but the effort and execution is embarrassing for an NBA team. </div> Pulling straws, and the fact that you claim that this is Thorn's biggest mistake(or a mistake for that matter) just cracks me up. </div> Pulling straws? The signs of a well coached team are preparedness, not making mental mistakes, giving consistent effort. Can you honestly say the current Nets do any of those well? I've made no secrets of Scott's deficiencies. I've admitted there are weak spots on the Nets roster. But a majority of the people replying here seem to have their head in sand about how poorly the current Nets squad is playing. </div> This Nets team is poorly built with pieces that hurt each other instead of helpoing each other. Im not saying Scott is not the 'motivating type' but the fact of the matter the Hornets success is hardly his doing plus the Nets' decline is not due to his departure. Coaching has a lot more to do than "motivation." Thats why there is a huge ass difference between Riley and Scott. It's due to a big list of things this management has failed to do. "a majority of the people replying here seem to have their head in sand about how poorly the current Nets squad is playing." And who the hell here is denying the fact the Nets suck. Everyday i see a plethora of posts saying how bad this team is. Again, even if Scott were the head coach here, things would actually be the same or even worse. Do not attribute the Nets decline to the coach. Granted a coaching change is imminent; however the main reason why this Nets team is doing so poorly right now because of the way it has been built.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.</div> Or, for that sake, half as good as a defender as Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, or Jason Kidd. </div> I am not asking the current Nets to run teams out of the gym like the Scott Nets, or win as many games as Scott's Hornets, but level of play of Frank's Nets is embarrassing. </div> And again, what in the hell makes you think that is mostly Frank's fault. For crying out loud, this board overhyped the team before the season started and now posters are looking for scapegoats, even though the true guilty party is the one who constructed this mess.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.</div> Or, for that sake, half as good as a defender as Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, or Jason Kidd. </div> I am not asking the current Nets to run teams out of the gym like the Scott Nets, or win as many games as Scott's Hornets, but level of play of Frank's Nets is embarrassing. </div> And again, what in the hell makes you think that is mostly Frank's fault. For crying out loud, this board overhyped the team before the season started and now posters are looking for scapegoats, even though the true guilty party is the one who constructed this mess. </div> Losing is one thing. It is part of the game. If the Nets give effort, improve, and lose, I can handle that. I never over hyped the Nets and have an honest opinion of their talent level. But Nets do not just lose, they play careless, sloppy basketball with very little effort. You can say whatever you want about how a team is constructed, but when a team plays as bad as the Nets do, a certain percentage of that has to fall on the coach.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.</div> Or, for that sake, half as good as a defender as Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, or Jason Kidd. </div> I am not asking the current Nets to run teams out of the gym like the Scott Nets, or win as many games as Scott's Hornets, but level of play of Frank's Nets is embarrassing. </div> And again, what in the hell makes you think that is mostly Frank's fault. For crying out loud, this board overhyped the team before the season started and now posters are looking for scapegoats, even though the true guilty party is the one who constructed this mess. </div> Losing is one thing. It is part of the game. If the Nets give effort, improve, and lose, I can handle that. I never over hyped the Nets and have an honest opinion of their talent level. But Nets do not just lose, they play careless, sloppy basketball with very little effort. You can say whatever you want about how a team is constructed, but when a team plays as bad as the Nets do, a certain percentage of that has to fall on the coach. </div> 1) Management is the main cause for this team's poor construction. 2) You claim letting go of Scott is the biggest mistake Thorn has ever made. Again, how many times do I have to tell you that his firing was actually a plus. Even if Scott was the coach for this current Nets squad, things would be no different. The team in 2004, a squad which gelled perfectly together, did not listen to Scott. And again, motivation isnt what makes a coach. It is an aspect of a coach, but without the other skills, then a coach is no good. This current team is playing like shit, but that blame goes all around. From management, coaching, the players, injuries, etc...all are to blame. I dont see how anyone thinks firing Scott was actually a negative.
In addition, you are right in the sense that this team needs some motivation, but realize this: during the Byron Scott era, Kmart was the main "motivator" on the Nets, not "forget practice and lets go bowling to celebrate losing" Scott.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) Management is the main cause for this team's poor construction. 2) You claim letting go of Scott is the biggest mistake Thorn has ever made. Again, how many times do I have to tell you that his firing was actually a plus. Even if Scott was the coach for this current Nets squad, things would be no different. The team in 2004, a squad which gelled perfectly together, did not listen to Scott. And again, motivation isnt what makes a coach. It is an aspect of a coach, but without the other skills, then a coach is no good. This current team is playing like shit, but that blame goes all around. From management, coaching, the players, injuries, etc...all are to blame. I dont see how anyone thinks firing Scott was actually a negative.</div> Poor construction only takes you so far. A team with Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson should not be playing as sloppy, with as many mistakes, and with as little effort (especially on the defensive end), as this team does. And what makes it even worse, the Nets have accepted that level of play. Losing to the Spurs and teams of that caliber, fine. But to lose to teams like the Knicks? And be "ok" with it? The Nets are headed right back to one of the laughing stock franchises of the NBA. Would Scott make an impact on the Nets record this season? Probably not. But he wouldn't be complacent either. One of the hardest things to do in all of professional sports is to turn a perennial loser into a serious team. Scott changed the culture of the Nets and never received much credit for that. Another year or two and the Nets will be right back where they started.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1) Management is the main cause for this team's poor construction. 2) You claim letting go of Scott is the biggest mistake Thorn has ever made. Again, how many times do I have to tell you that his firing was actually a plus. Even if Scott was the coach for this current Nets squad, things would be no different. The team in 2004, a squad which gelled perfectly together, did not listen to Scott. And again, motivation isnt what makes a coach. It is an aspect of a coach, but without the other skills, then a coach is no good. This current team is playing like shit, but that blame goes all around. From management, coaching, the players, injuries, etc...all are to blame. I dont see how anyone thinks firing Scott was actually a negative.</div> Poor construction only takes you so far. A team with Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson should not be playing as sloppy, with as many mistakes, and with as little effort (especially on the defensive end), as this team does. And what makes it even worse, the Nets have accepted that level of play. Losing to the Spurs and teams of that caliber, fine. But to lose to teams like the Knicks? And be "ok" with it? The Nets are headed right back to one of the laughing stock franchises of the NBA. Would Scott make an impact on the Nets record this season? Probably not. But he wouldn't be complacent either. One of the hardest things to do in all of professional sports is to turn a perennial loser into a serious team. Scott changed the culture of the Nets and never received much credit for that. Another year or two and the Nets will be right back where they started. </div> You are giving Scott too much credit. Changed the culture? How many times must this be stated? The arrival of Kidd and Kmart brought the new "culture." And why would you assume he would be complacent with it? And what in the hell makes you think that Frank has gotten complacent with the losing? The guy gets pissed off. Again, i still dont understand why in the hell you think Scott's departure was ever a huge deal. The basis of your argument now is based off assumption and what ifs. I mentioned this before it seems you ignored it: when the 04 Nets did poorly under Scott, nothing improved till his firing. How in the hell is taking the team to go bowling instead of practice sign of an adequate coach? In the great words of (ok i forgot the who said this ) NO NAME CALLING PLEASE With that, I say "good day"(Fez-70's Show. )
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 3 2008, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"Don't argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and beat u with experience." With that, I say "good day"(Fez-70's Show. )</div> Wow. Classy. I guess to not be an "idiot" on this board you have the share the popular opinions. And for the record, the only "if" I have said is that "if" the Nets at least gave effort I can handle the losing. Right now they are an over paid, under performing group, being led by a minor league coach who caters to his star players. The Nets are a season or two away, or a Kidd trade, from being as bad as they ever were. There are no "if's" there, just the truth. Meanwhile the Hornets, led by Scott, are winning in the same manner the Nets used to (solid PG play, dominant defensive big, etc).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 3 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any player on the current Nets that's half as good as Jason Kidd was in 2001.</div> Or, for that sake, half as good as a defender as Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, or Jason Kidd. </div> I am not asking the current Nets to run teams out of the gym like the Scott Nets, or win as many games as Scott's Hornets, but level of play of Frank's Nets is embarrassing. </div> So they don't have anywhere near as talented a superstar as those Nets or anyone who plays defense anywhere near as well as those Nets, but the reason they are playing at a lower "level" is because Scott was a master motivator and Frank isn't. OK.
In 2001 and 2002, Jason Kidd was the best player in the NBA. He was better and more important to his team than LeBron is right now. Do the Nets have the best player in the NBA now? Anyone in top 20? Top 50? This argument is ridiculous.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So they don't have anywhere near as talented a superstar as those Nets or anyone who plays defense anywhere near as well as those Nets, but the reason they are playing at a lower "level" is because Scott was a master motivator and Frank isn't. OK.</div> I'm being pretty clear about this. I do not expect the current Nets to have the same success as the finals Nets. I realize the difference on talent between the two teams and I realize the difference in talent in EC at both points in time. I am comparing the performance of each team in their current situation. I believe the current Nets are under performing in respect to their talent, which the finals Nets overachieved in respect to their talent. Additionally I do not think that the Hornets are the most talented team in the WC, but they are playing above their talent level and have the best record. To me, that is how you judge a coach...if he gets more or less out of the talent base of a team. The coach can be a motivator, a X's and O's guy, whatever your flavor is, but what is he doing with what he has.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In 2001 and 2002, Jason Kidd was the best player in the NBA. He was better and more important to his team than LeBron is right now. Do the Nets have the best player in the NBA now? Anyone in top 20? Top 50? This argument is ridiculous.</div> Again, am I asking the for the Nets to be competing with the Celtics? No, not at all. Am I asking for the Nets to be better than 20-27 (in the EC none the less) and being swept by the Knicks? Absolutely.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In 2001 and 2002, Jason Kidd was the best player in the NBA. He was better and more important to his team than LeBron is right now. Do the Nets have the best player in the NBA now? Anyone in top 20? Top 50? This argument is ridiculous.</div> Again, am I asking the for the Nets to be competing with the Celtics? No, not at all. Am I asking for the Nets to be better than 20-27 (in the EC none the less) and being swept by the Knicks? Absolutely. </div> I'd sure like that, too. What does it have to do with this discussion?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghost of Jason Collins @ Feb 3 2008, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Poor construction only takes you so far. A team with Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson should not be playing as sloppy, with as many mistakes, and with as little effort (especially on the defensive end), as this team does.</div> The above comment demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the NBA game. That is a perfect recipe for sloppy, mistake filled play with crappy effort on the defensive end. Frank's coaching has taken the Nets furher the last few seasons than the on paper roster had any business being.
