Politics Can Pete Buttigieg beat Trump?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by KSF-ERIC, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Note that this is reason to cave to the Bernie Bros, because they're the second most unreasonable (after the Yang Gang) and there's a lot of them. And if you're "beat Trump no matter what" you should have no trouble caving.
     
  2. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This seems relevant, so Imma leave it here:
     
  3. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fair enough, but I don't see Sanders guilty of more snarking at competitors than other candidates, and it really does seem as if the entire Democratic Party establishment is REALLY opposed to him being the nominee.
     
  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    25,772
    Likes Received:
    8,497
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I mean, I kinda get it...he's an independent, caucusing for the (vast majority) most part with Democrats, but he's hasn't put in his party dues. In a world without "Never Trump", (lets, say, Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz was the nominee), would Bernie get anything more than Ross Perot-level votes? Or much support at all from the DNC or the Democratic base?
     
  5. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,920
    Likes Received:
    16,185
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    I will have no trouble caving - I'll vote for Bernie in the general. Or Yang. They are both infinitely better than Trump.

    But I'll also have no trouble voting in the primary for someone else.

    barfo
     
  6. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
  7. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,920
    Likes Received:
    16,185
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    It seems relevant, but not all that important. People getting together and trying figure out how to win the election happens all the time.
    I'll bet that Bernie talks to people about how he can beat the other candidates, also.

    barfo
     
    Hoopguru likes this.
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,920
    Likes Received:
    16,185
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    I don't either, but only if you limit it to the candidates themselves, and exclude their campaigns.

    I don't really see the evidence for that, myself. Who is the 'Democratic Party establishment', anyway? Tom Perez? He doesn't seem anti-Bernie to me.

    barfo
     
  9. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
  10. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is the kind of slogan you come up with when you literally have no principles and stand for nothing:


    (I'd still vote for him over Trump, of course.)
     
    jonnyboy and 3RA1N1AC like this.
  11. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the big issue with Barfo's gripe is assuming Bernie supporters were democrats and involved in the political process before Bernie reached them. Many "Bernie Bros' were not part of the equation at all before Bernie was part of the equation. The rest of the DNC is doing their part in alienating Bernie supporters then expecting them to vote for a party that they only identify with because of Bernie. Instead Bernie should be acknowledged for his ability to reach new voters and bring them into the process rather than chastised for not making them part of the establishment. His appeal is that he is not part of the establishment and if he tried he would lose those supporters himself. The amount of people who Bernie (or potentially Warren) can reach is arguably greater than the amount of independents who will be gained with a moderate candidate.

    If the DNC wanted to reach these voters they would do two things. 1) Acknowledge that the party is evolving and has a large progressive wing that wants to be taken seriously. 2) insist on a transparent legitimate process to select a nominee and move forward with whatever those results are. If both of those points were an agenda for the DNC then even if Bernie lost his supporters would be more likely to accept it and become part of the process which would grow the DNC base considerably.
     
    H.C. and VanillaGorilla like this.
  12. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
  13. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Corporations.
     
    H.C. likes this.
  14. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree with this analysis for the most part, but it is a little alarming that the turnout in Iowa was lower than in 2008, given that Bernie was supposed to bring people in.

    Of course, Iowa was such a clusterfuck, I'm not sure we can take any big lesson out of it.
     
  15. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    28,588
    Likes Received:
    13,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To add to the discussion about the DNC: I find it kind of laughable that the DNC establishment is so upset that Bernie's not really a Democrat. What is it to be a "Democrat"? It's pretty much a meaningless label, as are both party labels in the US, since they have to cover such a broad spectrum. It's as if the DNC views "Democrat" as like a sports team and Bernie isn't a "true fan". They should be glad that there is a guy who is pretty much the only one to inspire Trump-like devotion (while not being a sociopath) is prepared to identify as a Democrat to run, because the other candidates, however much some of us might like them, just don't do it for people.
     
    H.C. likes this.
  16. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2019
    Messages:
    3,016
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not one post in this thread mentions Pete is gay. Which is awesome.
     
    Hoopguru likes this.
  17. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    2,873
    Likes Received:
    4,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Podunk suburbs
    Not sure if this answers your question. Is Hillary part of the DNC establishment?

    If so, she has been waging a 4 year long public anti-Bernie campaign.

    She is on record of making many anti-Bernie quotes. Such as.

    The numbers just don't add up from what Senator Sanders has been proposing- That's why all of the independent experts, all the editorial boards have concluded that it (Bernie's platform) is not achievable.

    He was in Congress for years, and had one senator support him.

    Just Baloney, dismissing Sanders claim he represents the everyday worker.

    Nobody wants to work with Bernie. Nobody likes Bernie.



    There are many more anti-Bernie quotes over the last 4 years. Just a short sample.
     
    H.C. likes this.
  18. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The "not a democrat" is a terrible cop out. Its a way of condoning and ignoring system and personal bias against him. If Bernie ran as an independent then these same people would be way more upset when he split the democrat vote. Either way it would be Bernies fault that "their candidate" lost. Really they just want him to go away and leave all his supporters, cant have both.
     
    H.C. likes this.
  19. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hillary was the democratic party for the last cycle, many people still loyal to her are still in power. They are all owned by insurance companies and sour grapes.
     
    H.C. likes this.
  20. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    8,961
    Likes Received:
    7,208
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I really Like Pete & Amy's (and Joe's) willingness to try and build a bridge so that moderate republicans & liberals, independents & libertarian's (like me) can cross over, with a degree of compromise and willingness to help mediate ( bring together) and conciliate (over ideas and workable compromise) in our to bring about more bi partisan unity. Otherwise, the radical left and right get all the press and pleasure in think they are starting revolution. We don't need a stinking revolution, we need Civil Community Unity!
     

Share This Page