Politics Can Pete Buttigieg beat Trump?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by KSF-ERIC, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Some of our most famous/best Presidents were VERY rich...but yeah, I don't see wealth as necessarily a detriment.
     
  2. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Why?

    He's barely a democrat.
     
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  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Barely a democrat? That seems like an odd thing to say. What positions does he have that you think are outside the party tent?

    barfo
     
  4. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    Democrats like to bash Trump and his swamp, yet don't seem to be able to see the swamp monsters lurking in their own party.

    The last democrat elected to office was Jimmy Carter, we have had nothing but republicans since. Both Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama were moderate republicans. Obama even says he was.

    Every president beyond Jimmy Carter sold America out to corporations and their billionaire donors. It's time to stop the corruption, 40 years of it is destroying America.
     
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  5. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    His core tenets are reducing deficits and government spending for education/healthcare. I exaggerated a bit, but as someone who is desperately awaiting a drastic change, I don't feel like he's going to bring it.

    The key to a dem victory in November is increasing voter turnout, and he has done absolutely nothing to inspire the youth or minorities to take interest. His moderation policies will win no ex-Trump votes in the general.
     
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  6. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    Healthcare is the #1 concern amongst the working class, which is the biggest demographic in the country. Poll after poll, time after time. Sanders is the only one addressing it in a straightforward way, all the others flip flop and produce caveats, excuses and disclaimers. It shouldn’t be any surprise Bernie is leading.
     
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  7. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I don't think that's at all accurate, unless you left out a comma after 'deficits'.

    That is certainly fair. He's not an advocate for drastic change.

    That is one theory of the election - turn out the base, because swing voters don't really exist anymore. And simultaneously try not to energize the opposing base.
    An alternative theory is try to appeal to the widest group of people and try to pick off disaffected Trump voters or motivate non-voters to vote.

    Maybe.

    barfo
     
  8. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

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  9. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

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    What happened to ACTUAL Commie Pinko barfo? How did he become "generic centrist" barfo?
     
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Pete is a commie pinko, you just don't realize it yet. All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

    barfo
     
  11. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

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    Well it DID take him forever to come out as gay, so perhaps he's just a very private person.
     
  12. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

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    Its his wall...over free stuff and tnhey shall follow....he's going to get some push back from dems that like their current healthcare and dont want the government pushing them on to something they dont want. Unions will not go for his medicare for all or nothing approach. He needs to convey just how he would govern all his free stuff besides the 1% will pay for it.
     
  13. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Bielsa!

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    I have a memory of feeling positively toward Buttigieg. I think it's when all I knew was he was that guy who learned Norwegian to read more novels by an author he liked.

    I can't imagine how actually worthy candidates like Harris or Booker or Castro feel towards him as they watch panicked billionaire donors fawn over him.
     
  14. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    This is the kinda centrist bullshit that angers me.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/12/biden-allies-eye-alternative-bloomberg-114596

    Pick a side. Bernie did. Worrying about your local elections and down-ballot races should not be an issue. Bernie's whole point is to motivate people to join his side-- not appeal to the masses by being moderate, while not pushing any of his core agendas at the end of the day.
     
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    That Buttigieg still exists... you can rekindle the flame, it's Valentine's Day Friday. Maybe get him something special?

    I don't know why those candidates didn't appeal more to donors, all three seemed like good candidates to me, but hopefully they are analyzing what they did wrong so they can do better next time. One thing I think they did wrong was dropping out too early.

    barfo
     
  16. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Booker, for sure. Especially given Joe's drastic drop. Think he could have filled a nice void the political spectrum there.
     
  17. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I'm with you on that - Manchin is a pain in the ass. Nevertheless, people like that do exist, and their votes count.

    Why shouldn't it be? It's hugely important. It's not just about the presidency.

    And if he can do that, great. But as of now, he's only motivated 26% of Democrats to join his side.

    He may get nominated and elected, we'll see. He's very unlikely to be able to implement his revolution if he does get elected. I fear he'll actually accomplish less than one of the more centrist candidates would, toward the same goals.

    barfo
     
  18. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    For a long time, I felt the line that defined the difference between communism and socialism was very blurred. A former Russian citizen, now living in the USA, gave me his version of the difference.

    Communism is a one party system that "elects" their leaders. Much like democracy is our two party system that elects our leaders.

    Socialism, the government owns and controls the economic system. We use the capitalist system were the public, as individuals or groups, owns and controls the economic system, under government regulations.

    I asked him what it was like living under a socialist economic system. He thought for a moment, and these are his exact words. "It was like being raped everyday".
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  19. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    In 08, Obama was inspirational, he was progressive, and won on a platform promising change. But the recession kinda fucked him over and losing majority in Congress magnified his inability to truly bring about change. Making sure to keep Congress blue is a big concern, but not if it comes at the cost of Bernie compromising his agendas to satisfy the masses in DC. I think he'd be different than Barack in this regard and wouldn't kowtow to the calls of him becoming more moderate.

    Plus, I think he'd actually help the people down ballot moreso than Obama, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong...
     
  20. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Obama didn't kowtow to calls to be more moderate, he worked to get done what was possible. He went into health care reform wanting a proper public option, but it became obvious that the "blue dog" Democrats wouldn't vote for something that progressive. It was get what ended up the ACA done or nothing at all, and even getting the ACA through was a massive slog and almost didn't happen.

    And soon after, Republicans took the House. This is what I mean about people not recognizing that we don't elect emperors--you can't just get anything you want done as long as you care enough or believe enough. There was no way in hell a Republican House was ever going to vote through more progressive legislation, so Obama tried to get more moderate things done--things that incrementally moved the needle rather than holding out for things that had no hope because the opposing party obviously had no reason or incentive to go along.

    You're setting Sanders up to fail you even if he did get elected President. You seem to think he can get his agenda through via sheer force of will. He can't--he needs a majority of the House and Senate to agree with him. If Republicans control either chamber (and, right now, odds are Republicans will still hold the Senate), his agenda is dead on arrival. And even if Democrats win the Senate, it'll be by a tiny margin. Any defections will tank more liberal agenda items, as Obama discovered. Then it'll look like Sanders either was ineffective or else kowtowed.
     

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