Can someone tell me what our record is???

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by yenniedn, Nov 25, 2008.

  1. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Those five games are still accounting for a third of our games played, so there's no discounting them. And if you know the NBA, it's no great secret that even the elite teams typically only win about half of their road games, so despite the wins and losses of our opponents the fact of the matter is that our S.O.S is weighted differently than if we had a more even split of home and road games.

    So the real question is, what are you getting so fired up about?
     
  2. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I got fired up at one post, that said we're young and progressing. This post I'm just saying that "hardest schedule in history" has been over and done with for 2 weeks. Now we're playing cupcakes, and barely winning. We're losing to good teams on the road, so not a lot of shame there. i don't necessarily like the way we're losing, and think it's because our team isn't playing well rather than, say, the Suns just being that much better than us, but I'm "ok" with road losses to good teams.

    That's all.
     
  3. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Since when have we played the Wizards, Thunder and Bobcats? the rest of the "bad" teams we've played are what I would consider the borderline "bad" teams in the NBA (T-Wolves, Kings, etc.).

    The fact of the matter is that the Blazers are not an elite team yet, and expecting them to be right now, is probably premature. I'm being presumptuous, but I'm guessing you're in that category of fans that think we should win something like 55 games this season and get a fourth seed. Am I close?
     
  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    You're actually low. 58 and WCF. I admit that I'm on the "homer" side of the predictions. And I'll submit that "cupcakes" was too strong. In 6 of our last 7 games, we've played SAC twice, CHI, MIN, GSW and MIA. Those aren't "elite teams", either. And while I was ecstatic at how we played vs. CHI and SAC (the first time), I'm disappointed at how we played the others. Not because of the final score, but b/c of how the team played.

    But I asked this all preseason, and continue to ask it now...what's the difference between last year's Hornets and our 2008-09 Blazers?
     
  5. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    Most people here are more even keel then your characterization. There are some individuals overreacting who seem to be everyone as they're the ones starting topics but most here are not in that camp.
    I predicted 55 if everything went well injury wise and still think it's possible. I don't think that makes them an elite team this year though. They look really big and talented, it's just a matter of putting things together which should come with time as they figure things out. In the meantime their superior team size and depth has been helping grind out close games. Heres guessing they'll be playing much better in a months time.

    With Batum Greg Rudy and Sergio all being worked into the rotation, I expected more early season struggles... young players do tend to go through streaks. I'm glad to see Bayless getting a little run as well lately. I expect his PT to pick up the 2nd half of the season as he's a likely future starter.
    superior Blazer depth? They had more time a unit to jell? Chris Paul is not Brandon Roy and vice versa?

    There are some similarities in the players, but is that supposed to be a bad thing? They did win 56 games...

    STOMP
     
  6. yenniedn

    yenniedn Transplanted Blazer Fan

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    Ahhh, thank you for providing that recap from back in BBF - where I was more a lurker and not much of a poster yet.

    Those numbers above pretty much prove one of my points: most people (on average) had predicted us right around .500 ball through 22 games. Through 15 so far, we're AHEAD of most expectations yet so many act as if this team should be 12-3 and winning by double digits every night out.
     
  7. yenniedn

    yenniedn Transplanted Blazer Fan

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    Yeah, of course we can stop with this line of thinking - since it is really only one of many factors that we should think about and yet still be happy with our team so far. As previously mentioned, even without the toughest 5 opening game schedule yadda yadda yadda, you still got to account for the youth, the players not knowing each other, four significant rookies, two rookie starters, Oden injury, etc. etc. So there are still plenty of things working against this team and . . . they're still 9-6.

    OK, now I understand where Brian's coming from. I, for one, didn't foresee a 58 win and WCF for this team this year. I told anyone around me that would listen that this team is going to be scary good . . . in another year. They need this year to tinker and get to figure things out. They'll probably be a 7th or 8th seed and get beat by a more experienced team in the playoffs - which happens all the time so there's no shame in that. Even where we're at now, if they get bounced as a 7th seed this year, I'd still be OK with it. Anything above and beyond that is pure gravy for me, honestly.

    I kept thinking that the expectations on this young team are so high, so early that they couldn't possibly live up to them this year. That seems to be the case from what I'm seeing now.
     
  8. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Stomp, that's exactly my point. I see us as being AT LEAST the equal, if not better, than the lineup the Hornets fielded last year. And yet it seems many on here are thinking it's ok if we squeak into the playoffs with ugly wins, b/c we're "progressing".

    Set the bar high. The team's talented enough to hit it, but they have to put in the effort.
     
  9. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    Last yar the Hornets had a superstar year by Paul and an allstar year by West.

    Will Brandon have a superstar year and will Aldridge be an allstar?
     
  10. yenniedn

    yenniedn Transplanted Blazer Fan

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    I'm all for setting the bar high - but at what point do expectations become unrealistic?

    As of right now, we have Brandon Roy. Period.

    Coming into the season, the talk was of a "big 3" - but it was more speculation than fact. Roy was/is our only All-Star. LMA is/was supposed to break out and is still struggling to. The rest are pretty much either unproven or slightly above mediocre. We still don't have a solid "true" point guard. All the clamoring for a solid SF and all we have is an intense love/hate relationship with both Martell and TO . . . and a 19yr old rookie who shows great promise but is still raw.

    Oden? Again, immense potential but unproven.

    Rudy? Awesome player - already my favorite Blazer. But as his last few games show, despite his extensive Euro pro experience, this is still his first NBA season and he'll have his ups and downs.

    Bayless - the other rookie so many were expecting so much from? Can't find any playing time.

    Add all those things up and I see a team that will most likely make a return to the playoffs after many years of missing them - not a team that's a lock to get to the WCF. Can it happen? Absolutely - if everything falls into place. Would I be happy if it did, hell yes! But am I expecting it? No.
     
  11. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I see Brandon this year as being where CP3 was last year...yes.

    I think that LMA should be quite close to the level of West. Maybe not all the way there, but close.

    Our SFs should be > Peja was

    Our C's should be > Chandler was

    And our bench is much better than the NOH bench last year.
     
  12. BoBoBREWSKI

    BoBoBREWSKI BURP!

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    If we keep winning at the rate we are, we'd finish the season with 49 wins. Not bad!
     
  13. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    You have completely unrealistic expectations. Please stop bashing the team for failing to live up to your ridiculous pie-in-the-sky assumptions about this team.

    Aim high? Sure, but you paragraph after paragraph bitching about what now appears to be your own disappointment vis a vis your "expectation" of the team makes a person wonder what you really do know about the NBA, how it works, and how rare it is for a team this young to be playing this well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  14. yenniedn

    yenniedn Transplanted Blazer Fan

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    Brian, I don't disagree with you on any of those points. But if there's one thing those Trader Bob & Rasheed Wallace led Blazers teams should've taught us, just having the talent there isn't everything.

    AND(!) all of those guys were experienced guys! What we have here is a bunch of talented guys with little NBA experience in general, even less playoff experience and very little experience playing together.

    Here's to hoping they progress, gel and sing songs by the campfire together and make a deep playoff run!!! I'm just not telling myself that if we don't reach the WCF or win the championship this year that this season's a bust!
     
  15. Crimson the Cat

    Crimson the Cat Well-Known Member

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    2005-2006 Season - 21 wins
    2006-2007 Season - 32 wins
    2007-2008 Season - 41 wins

    See the numbers rising?

    What are we on pace for right now? 49 wins.

    My expectations entering this season were kept in check. I wasn't sure what to expect. To say I'm ecstatic is an understatement. There may be a few snags that we've come across heading down this road, but for the most part, they're snags that I think will quickly be long forgotten about (Aldridge, Oden, and Frye). Otherwise, for me, there's a bunch of exciting things that I see developing.

    Individually, Steve Blake, Joel Przybilla, and Brandon Roy are playing the best basketball of their careers. In fact, Roy is better than I could have ever hoped he would be. I never thought that Sergio would get back on track or Outlaw would learn how to do more than just launch awkward looking jumpers. Rudy Fernadez has adapted to the NBA game faster than I thought as well. And this is all with Webster breaking his foot, Bayless sitting, and Batum barely getting any burn (who by the way is light years ahead of where I thought he would be).

    Team-wise, I wasn't sure how everything was going to mesh together. And with the players being so young and having to take on the worst part of their schedule at the beginning, I was expecting them to inconsistent and near the bottom of the league standings.

    We ended last year on a high note (even if we sputtered at the end). We started out this year well above my expectations. So yeah, I still think they're continuing to better themselves and progress. To me, the team is rising.

    And for the record, I wasn't referring to you with my Chicken Littles comment. It's not my fault you felt guilty as a Blazer fan to think that I was calling you out. I actually enjoy reading your thoughts. I don't agree with you some of the time, but I do appreciate your takes on things. It's a few select posters that drive me crazy.

    Every team is going to have those types of games throughout the season. It all evens out. First do you think Portland's the only team to win games on low-percentage shots or have the opposition missing high-percentage shots? If you take those 3 games away from us, you better consider taking them away from every other team as well. Also, you're weighing heavily the significance of those last-second plays. While you're at it you might as well contend that any low-percentage shot that Portland or any team makes in the first quarter should be counted against us/them. Or that any high-percentage shot that is missed by us or the opposition in the 2nd quarter should be counted against us/them.

    The point is that Portland put themselves in a position to be up against the Spurs in the final possession of the game. San Antonio didn't. Portland put themselves in a position to have the last possession in the Houston game and hit a tough shot. Portland put themselves in a position to be leading with the last possession of the game and Sacramento could not hit their shot.

    These close games happen all year long. The bottom line is Portland has put themselves in a possession to win games and other teams haven't. Coulda, shoulda, woulda doesn't matter this season and hasn't mattered in the past seasons. Unless, do you want to go back and start rewriting history?

    Because I'm looking at more than just his shot. His shooting is the least of my concerns. Good shooters, over large samples, will shoot a high percentage. I expect him to. If after this road trip, he's still shooting poorly then I'd be worried.

    What I'm excited about is watching the rest of his game develop. His commitment to defense, rebounding, turn overs, passing out of doubles, and team play. Young players are always going to be inconsistent. They always have been. I expect him to be as well, but I also want to see more consistency this year than last. And I am. He's by far improved defensively to me. His rebounding rate is in line with last year, while playing further away from the basket. He's turning the ball over less and he's passing the ball better.

    Again I've said this before, but all players struggle with their shots at time, especially long ball and mid-range chuckers. What I like to see is players that still find ways to contribute even when their shot isn't falling.

    You act as if he's choosing to shoot the 22 footers. I'm pretty sure it's drawn up that way. Oh and strange how when he's not playing in the post he doesn't get more rebounds. Weird how that works. Why do people continue not to put some perspective around these numbers. You think he just became a bad rebounder over the summer. Different roles produce different results.

    Frye is playing a brand new role for this team. It seems that he has the green light to shoot whenever open; however, he's only getting so many minutes due to how deep this team is, so he's having to produce in very few minutes. Pretty big adjustment and may be a role that he's never going to be suited for. I feel bad for him. Sometimes I'd like to see him back in the primary reserve PF role.

    Well we're pretty darn good the majority of the time. I'll take that.

    And it's fine if you want to be critical, I could care less, but don't get all bent out shape because I don't want to join in. This team is young and it's very early in the season. They've dealt with some adverse conditions. They've added a Oden, Batum, Fernandez, and given a larger role to Rodriguez. It takes awhile to sort things out. But you know what? They've been sorting it out on the fly and winning more games than losing. I'm actually enjoying watching the team work through all this.

    Maybe your expectations were/are too high?
     
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  16. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    You completely undersell the effect of having tried and tested veterans rounding out your roster. Look at the Hornets last year and their young nucleus of "star" players -- namely Paul, West and Chandler -- is surrounded by veteran role players ... and even David West was no spring chicken at 27. To put things into perspective New Orleans average is age is 28.7 compared with our average age of 24; nearly a five year difference

    There is more than a grain of truth to the old saw about age and treachery beating youth and exuberance; young guys have so many little tricks to master, and have to go through growing pains to find out just what their game is at the NBA level. Veterans also know exactly what kind of preparation it takes to bring it every night, because they've been there, done that. As young as the Blazers were last year (and this year) they are a little like a gifted, but awkward teenager who still doesn't quite know his limitations and how to produce consistent results night in and night out.

    Think of it this way, if you have a veteran that averages 13 points per game and the variance in his FG% never goes much more than +/-5% up or down, compared to a young guy that averages 18 points per game but his FG% varies +/- 20% on any given night, who would you rather have on the floor as a coach? You take the consistent, but lesser production because it's predictable and this predictability also allows you to solidify your rotations. The wildly inconsistent (but sometimes brilliant) player is a coaches headache because he's never quite sure what he's going to get from that player on a night in and night out basis; the coach is left to constantly tinker with lineups trying to find the combination of players that produces the most reliable result, which is ultimately winning.

    Once we have a roster that produces fairly consistent results from most of its positions then we'll know we have something special ... assuming that at least two or three of those players consistently produce at a high (all-star caliber) level.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
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  17. Crimson the Cat

    Crimson the Cat Well-Known Member

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    That wouldn't make any sense to ignore that. Considering our team, we had fantastic record during the "hardest schedule in NBA history". It's no myth. It's fact. Why would not speak of it anymore? So you can feel better about being critical of team currently?
     
  18. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    I like the optimism.

    But outside Blazer fans, I don't think you will find many fans who think Roy will be as valuable a player to his team as Paul is to his team.

    I also think most NBA fans would give the strong nod to West . . . although I haven't really followed West and I'm a big LA fan so maybe I'm wrong about this.

    I also don't think many would say that Batum, Outlaw or Webster are better tham Peja. :dunno:
     
  19. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Roy is clearly in the ALL-Star category this year (PER of 23, with 20 being an all-star).
    Paul was in the super-star category last year (PER of 28m with 25 being a super-star).
     
  20. Crimson the Cat

    Crimson the Cat Well-Known Member

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    So your upset because of the last 2 games. Because the 2 games prior to those, the team was looking more than adequate. Are you upset about the loss at GS? That's 3 games.

    Geez. From your tone, you'd think that we've lost more than half our games and playing worse than last year.

    They're a young team. They're going to be inconsistent at times. You're either going to have to get used to that or it's going to ruin time following the team.
     

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