I don't wanna judge the guy because personally I have rarely seen him play although I'm a Magic fan. But, what are his tendencies?? Is he a shooter?? Does he have a shot?? Post up player?? Defensive minded??
Diesel, you don't seem to know Eddie Jordan's game at all. He's a guards coach, that's it. He runs plays for Arenas and Caron. Why do you think Haywood is so unhappy? Ask any GM in this league, they'll tell you that Blatche is a pool of talent. Hell, Antawn Jamison told the kid the team is his for the taking when Jamison is done, everyone can recognize the kids potential. Why can't you?
<div class="quote_poster">Will637 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> What the hell? HAVE YOU COMPLETELY MISSED THE ESSAY I JUST WROTE ON HOW EDDIE JORDAN IS HOLDING BLATCHE BACK? Guys like Haywood and Thomas aren't stopping from doing anything because Blatche plays forward and Eddie Jordan doesn't get any plays run for the centers we have either, so we know the only thing holding Blatche back is the coach himself. </div> Fine so your telling me that Deshawn Stevenson is holding him back? I'm sure Butler could play some two-guard and Jamison the Three. I noticed the majority of games that Blatche got good minutes were as a back-up center becausae of injuries to Ruffin(beast) and Etan Thomas. Other than the games Jamison missed of course. So this brings me to the question: What has Andray Blatche done to make you think that this guy can become an all-star? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Damn, you're an idiot. Why didn't the doctors clear Blatche for the next 52 games, in that case? </div> Because the Wizards had 10 players that were better than Blatche and that were more NBA ready. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That's not the point, you're dodging everything I say on how Eddie Jordan is holding Andray Blatche back.</div> I'm sure if the guy was as good as you claim that he would find minutes on a non-injured team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Just because you have a job, you automatically aren't obligated to work the fullest to it? That's the problem in the NBA today, like igotask8board said, people in the NBA don't have that passion after they signed that contract, because they know they are set.</div> Obviously there's a reason that he was hired for an NBA Head coaching job. And I don't know if the same criteria follows for players and coaches. I agree with what that one dude said in that thread and that basketball won't be the same, but I'm not sure if the same applies for coaches. Coaching and playing are two completely different things. Coaching is a mental thing while playing is a physical and mental thing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That's your problem, you've only read the boxscore. Did you not read how I said Elton Brand and Andris Biedrins raped in the paint during that second half? Go stare at your boxscores once again and see how many offensive rebounds the Warriors and Clippers (specifically Brand and Biedrins) in that second half. No one's denying that jumpshot he has, but if you've actually watched the Wizards games, that's all he has. He has NO HOPS, he cannot rebound, he's too short to play center, he's too weak compared to other centers which was why Biedrins and Brand were able to score and rebound over him. I'm ripping on his choice of Songalia because Haywood and Blatche did a GREAT job on those two in the first half of play, until they barely played in those second halves.</div> Since I only read the boxscore I guess I don't know if your lying or telling the trust so it doesn't even matter than does it? How many players do you know that average 17 PPG on 66% shooting along with 6 RPG and 5 APG that suck? Now I'm not saying he averaged that, but that was his game stats. When a player gets those numbers they had a good game. Especially if it's a bench player like Darius Songalia. And you say I only read the box score? The only thing you use to your argument of Blatche being a star is a game where he got some decent numbers in 20 something minutes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Eddie Jordan doesn't emphasize it well enough. We know before training camp last year that the Wizards tried to work on it, but he just can't coach it. Deshawn Stevenson was brought in mainly to replace Jared Jeffries and bring in a perimeter defensive presence. Caron Butler has worked hard himself doing everything you can ask a player to do, make plays, play defense, get rebounds, etc. Haywood and Thomas shown that they are capable with their size to play defense against some of the better centers in the league. Last year's 2006 series against the Cavs is one I can truly remember off the top of my head.</div> Look at the top teams in the league on defense. The Spurs. Duncan, and Bowen. Two of the leagues top 5 defenders in the league and there isn't a player on their team who gets minutes who is a defensive liability. How about the Bulls? Kirk Hinrich who is a top 3 defensive PG in the league. PJ Brown who has been known for his rebounding and defense for his entire career. Ben Wallace who is a 4 time DPOY. Andre Nocioni who makes all kinds of hustle plays and forces turnovers, and takes charges. Chris Duhon plays hard nosed defense as well. Very rarely ever lets his man past him. Thabo Sefolosha with his long ass arms causing problems for opposing offensive players. Then you got Tyrus Thomas who is an amazing shot blocker. Averages over a BPG in just 13 MPG. He has definetly got to be one of the most athletic players in the league and knows how to use it too. Again the Bulls don't have nay defensive liabilities either. Top defensive teams have top defensive players. When I think of top defensive big man I think of Tim Duncan, and Ben Wallace. Not Brendan Haywood. When I think of defensive perimeter players I think of Tayshaun Prince, Ron Artest, and Bruce Bowen. Not Deshawn Stevenson. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> In game 1: Ilgauskas was held to 10 points, 6 rebounds and 3 fouls. In game 2: Ilgauskas was held to 9 points, 3-13 shooting, 7 rebounds In game 3: Ilgauskas was held to 15 points, 4-12 shooting, 8 rebounds and 6 fouls. In game 4: Ilgauskas was held to 13 points, 6 rebounds, 5 turnovers and 4 fouls. In game 5: Ilgauskas was held to 6 points, 5 rebounds, 3 turnovers and 4 fouls. In game 6: Ilgauskas was held to 6 points, 5 rebounds, 4 fouls and 2 turnovers. Now I say Ilguaskas was held to in all 6 games, because that season he averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds. His series average against Haywood and Thomas were: 9 points, 6 rebounds and quite a bit of fouls and and turnovers during that series.</div> lol Zydrunas Illgauskas is not what I would call a dominant Center. lol the Wizards and Cavs played again this year in the playoffs. Let's see how Washingtons fearsome twin towers did against a Zydrunas Illgauskas that averaged 12 PPG and 9 RPG. <u>Big Z vs Washington 2007</u> 19.0 PPG 11.0 RPG 1.5 BPG 60% FG Well above his season averages you can see. As you can see you cannot rely on one strong series to classify someone. Bonzi Wells in the playoffs last year with Sacto? Jerome JAmes with Seattle? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> CAN YOU READ? No one said that he will be good in two days, more like two effing years or so if he changes to another team. You obviously mistaken that thought that we think he is playing like Kevin Garnett RIGHT NOW, you're so idiotic. I've said it millions of times, if he does decide to leave the Wizards, he WILL reach his full potential in a few years.</div> So you agree Blatche is nothing more than a 10th man right now? ok Thanks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What makes you think of that potential? From the 0 games you've seen of Andray Blatche? You still haven't responded to like 85% of my **** that I've posted in my previous post, so why should I bother listening to you when you're just going to half-ass your responses on a topic you know nothing about?</div> What makes me think of that potential is that he has done jack **** in his first two years. Not many players have done that and went on to become all-stars. Jermaine is the only one. That is what makes me think of that potential. History repeats itself. Nice try. You have no idea how to respond to that your going to try and weasel your way out with that bullshit. Here I'll put it again so you can try again. Or getting 20 MPG at least. I can count the number of players on one hand that haver avergaed less than 4.0 PPG in their first two years in the league and went on to be an all-star. Jermaine, Ben Wallace(even though he isn't an offensive player), ughhhhhhhhhhh. Blatches maximum potential IMO is a weak starter or solid 6th man.He won't be any first, second, or third scoring options on a dominant team. There are tons more players that had nothing to rely on except hard work and practice that have not risen them to the top. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Two very different cases. You see, Kwame Brown was the first pick, Andray Blatche was 46th. Mamba a while ago talked about a story that explained the struggles of Brown mentally on and off the court that had showed why he didn't play so good. From what I can remember was:</div> Kwame Brown was mearly an example to show that even if you have the potential to be something big it doesn't always fall through. I could use many other guys if you don't like me using Kwame for some strange reason: Joe Smith, Sam Bowie, Darko Milicic, Ed O'Bannon, or even Derrick Coleman a guy who had the potential to be the best power forward ever but settled for playing until his next pay check. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kwame Brown came from a big family, with not a lot in a bad community. Only had 1 mother, so he had no father figure to grow up and look upon to. He had brothers going in and out of jail in his lifetime and basically all he had was basketball to rely on. When he came into Washington, he knew that he wanted to look up to MJ as a father figure and what not, but he got discouraged in his first couple of years as a Wizard when MJ didn't turn out the way Kwame wanted him to. They didn't have good connections with each other, Doug Collins didn't like to play him, Kwame Brown was easily discouraged coming straight out of high school as well. I'm gonna need Mamba to verify this because I don't remember the full story.</div> I'm not really sure if you want me to respond to this or if your just giving me a biography of Kwame Brown so I know why he didn't pan out the way people thought he would. Well now I know so thanks, but I've given some more examples if you didn't like the Kwame Brown example. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Wow...you truly are stupid.</div> Haha and you thought I gave bad responses. Until the guy shows me that he can take over a game on either side of the court even on a first round and out team I'm not going to become a believer that the guy will someday become an all-star. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The offense revolves around the big three because it is the princeton offense. Do you know what the princeton offense is? Hopefully I'll assume you know what it is because if you do, you know that ANDRAY BLATCHE DOESN'T FIT IN WITH IT. He's got range, but he won't rain it from downtown everyday. That's why I keep telling that if he decides to leave, he will excel in another team.</div> So the princeton offense HAS To revolve around the big three? I know Blatche has some passing skills so why couldn't he be used like Webber was when he was in Sacramento? I think if the guys got game he could be successful in a role similar to that of Webber in his Kings days. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think he's the closest coming to KG, who do you have your eyes on that's the second coming? Shaq? . </div> Yes <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> No effing ****, you idiot. But the thing is, you're acting like he's playing his prime and wondering why he even deserves a 20 year contract in the first place. Damn, get your weight up and get on with 2007, we all know that his offense needs polishing, but it will be worked on. He's already working on his shot in the gym with Oleksiy Pecherov with the video above in this thread. But then again, you obviously duck like 80 percent of this thread, so why should I even bother responding to you.</div> No fucking **** he isn't in his prime, you moron. Where did I say he's in his prime? What I;m saying is that the guy got something like 3 PPG in his first two years in the league. You can work hard all you want, but I doubt a guy who gets 3 PPG is going to end up being the next Kevin Garnett or Rashard Lewis. <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>You know what I mean. Blatche doesn't get the same treatment on the court that Odom did with the 15-67 Clippers.</div> Blatche is the 10th scoring option on a team. Odom was the third. I wonder whos name appears more in opposing teams gameplans? Hmmmm. Do you think Blatche could've done any better with those Clippers? This is the Clippers we're talking about. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> It's shown where? Obviously you haven't seen it because you don't watch any of the damn games. How the hell are you going to say "It's shown" if you haven't watched him play or even bother to respond my examples of his top performances of the season me and Garenas showed above? </div> Well the majority of the time I'm watching the Wizards Blatche isn't playing so your right. Most of the time he's on the bench during the games so it's tough to see what he can do. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the guy isn't dominating the league. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Go back to OTR. I can't believe you even try to respond with statements like that, when you know you can't respond to mine. You're such a douche, you know that? I'm not gonna bother to repeat what I said about 50 times.</div> Once again one of those evading responses. If you don't want to respond in a mature manner then just don't say anything.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Lmao, if you know any better, you would know to stop talking right now on a subject you obviously don't know about, go back to a place where you think you make members "below" your level look bad because you're just making yourself look like an idiot right now.</div> And another one... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yeah whatever, don't you have a boxscore you need to be masterbating off to right now?</div> And another one.... You really lazed off towards the end there. And you say I ignore things. Your a joke<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Diesel, you don't seem to know Eddie Jordan's game at all. He's a guards coach, that's it. He runs plays for Arenas and Caron. Why do you think Haywood is so unhappy? Ask any GM in this league, they'll tell you that Blatche is a pool of talent. Hell, Antawn Jamison told the kid the team is his for the taking when Jamison is done, everyone can recognize the kids potential. Why can't you? </div> First of all I'd like to thank you for responding like an adult when you disagree. I never said or implied that Eddie Jordan is a good coach. I sure as hell wouldn't want him on the sidelines of my favorite team. I always thought Haywood was unhappy because of Etan Thomas. Those two always seem to be going at it. Blatche is a pool of talent. That isn't what I'm arguing. What I'm arguing is that I don't believe he'll ever be the all-star some of you guys seem to think he'll become. I think at his peak he'll be a 6th man or a starter, but not a guy whos going to take over games. It wouldn't be the first time a guy with pools of potential didn't amount to what they could. By no means do I consider him garbage.
<div class="quote_poster">Diesel Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Fine so your telling me that Deshawn Stevenson is holding him back? I'm sure Butler could play some two-guard and Jamison the Three.</div> Who the hell said that Deshawn Stevenson was holding him back? I never said that. They both play two completely different positions. Butler isn't a two guard at all, and I wouldn't play him there, since we have the luxury of a talented 2 guard in our hands with Stevenson. Jamison is a true small forward, but with the lineup we have right now, we'd have to play him at the 4 for about 1 more year until his contract comes up. Any other time I'll put him at the 3. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I noticed the majority of games that Blatche got good minutes were as a back-up center becausae of injuries to Ruffin(beast) and Etan Thomas. Other than the games Jamison missed of course.</div> Etan Thomas was injured from December 13th to January 7th, so in those 13 games, Blatche played good minutes in two of those games...against the Bucks and at the Bucks. One of them, he played 12 minutes and the other played 21 minutes. Michael Ruffin was injured from November 22nd to February 7th, so in those 38 games, Blatche played good minutes in [n]four of those games[/b]....The February games do not count because Antawn Jamison was injured the entire month of February which increased the playing time of Andray Blatche. So you're wrong. Andray Blatche hasn't gotten good minutes with those two players out, Andray Blatche doesn't even play center on the team, he plays power forward. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So this brings me to the question: What has Andray Blatche done to make you think that this guy can become an all-star?</div> His athleticism that's he done in the good minutes he's gotten. The ability to make good plays during the game when the Wizards really needed it. The strength he brung in defending the bigger men in this league and being able to defend the perimeter with some of the perimeter-oriented forwards as well. The range in some of shots he made, which he's trying to improve right now. The way he plays above the rim in rebounding and scoring, all in the fact that's he's only 20. He has so many years in front of him to improve his skills and develop the talent he has that has led me to believe that he will become an all-star. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Because the Wizards had 10 players that were better than Blatche and that were more NBA ready.</div> Better than Blatche? Awvee Storey, Billy Thomas, Calvin Booth, and Michael Ruffin are better than Blatche? I agree with the part that they were NBA ready, most likely because Blatche got shot...with a gun if you didn't notice. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sure if the guy was as good as you claim that he would find minutes on a non-injured team.</div> You talking about this team? Wow...you're doing it again, you haven't responded to any of my points about Eddie Jordan holding him back. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously there's a reason that he was hired for an NBA Head coaching job.</div> Because Ernie Grunfeld knew that with a player like Gilbert Arenas the front office wanted to build on, they'd need a offensive minded head coach like Eddie Jordan to help him play off of. Did you even realize that Eddie Jordan didn't even want Gilbert Arenas to be signed in the first place and that he wanted a pass-first, shoot later type guard? You realize how different the team would be if EG listened to Eddie? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And I don't know if the same criteria follows for players and coaches. I agree with what that one dude said in that thread and that basketball won't be the same, but I'm not sure if the same applies for coaches. Coaching and playing are two completely different things. Coaching is a mental thing while playing is a physical and mental thing.</div> I don't know, maybe there's no not doing your job as a coach, but there are two different criteria for coaches as in, really putting your heart in for the job and just half-assing what you really should be doing as a coach and making idiotic decisions off-court. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Since I only read the boxscore I guess I don't know if your lying or telling the trust so it doesn't even matter than does it?</div> Well, you haven't watched any Wizards games this season, so obviously you wouldn't know. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How many players do you know that average 17 PPG on 66% shooting along with 6 RPG and 5 APG that suck? Now I'm not saying he averaged that, but that was his game stats. When a player gets those numbers they had a good game. Especially if it's a bench player like Darius Songalia.</div> He had a good game offensively, but if you haven't noticed, playing defense is just as significant if not, even more important than playing offense. You're obviously dodging my point on how Biedrins and Brand killed Songalia in the paint, but I'll say it again so it'll be clear to you: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No one's denying that jumpshot he has, but if you've actually watched the Wizards games, that's all he has. He has NO HOPS, he cannot rebound, he's too short to play center, he's too weak compared to other centers which was why Biedrins and Brand were able to score and rebound over him.</div>....Clear to you, yet? I never said he had a bad game offensively, but what we needed the most then was defense, and he didn't bring it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And you say I only read the box score? The only thing you use to your argument of Blatche being a star is a game where he got some decent numbers in 20 something minutes.</div> Have you been reading anything I wrote in the first page? I'll take you back to my first post in the thread: 1st:<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now it's the time to match and give Blatche 4 million a year because this man is definitely worth it. He's shown so much athleticism playing above the rim, showing his range, holding his own in the paint. He's still very young at age 20, could play a big role in the years to come</div> Or how about right now in my post?: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His athleticism that's he done in the good minutes he's gotten. The ability to make good plays during the game when the Wizards really needed it. The strength he brung in defending the bigger men in this league and being able to defend the perimeter with some of the perimeter-oriented forwards as well. The range in some of shots he made, which he's trying to improve right now. The way he plays above the rim in rebounding and scoring, all in the fact that's he's only 20. </div> I've only being using stats as an example, and to show what stats he's been averaging in the games you should've watched if you're a Sixer or Heat fan. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Look at the top teams in the league on defense. The Spurs. Duncan, and Bowen. Two of the leagues top 5 defenders in the league and there isn't a player on their team who gets minutes who is a defensive liability. How about the Bulls? Kirk Hinrich who is a top 3 defensive PG in the league. PJ Brown who has been known for his rebounding and defense for his entire career. Ben Wallace who is a 4 time DPOY. Andre Nocioni who makes all kinds of hustle plays and forces turnovers, and takes charges. Chris Duhon plays hard nosed defense as well. Very rarely ever lets his man past him. Thabo Sefolosha with his long ass arms causing problems for opposing offensive players. Then you got Tyrus Thomas who is an amazing shot blocker. Averages over a BPG in just 13 MPG. He has definetly got to be one of the most athletic players in the league and knows how to use it too. Again the Bulls don't have nay defensive liabilities either.</div> Where'd that get Chicago to again? Teaching defense isn't that hard though. All of those players you mentioned had defense taught to them. Bruce Bowen being undrafted, learned defense and used it it to get to the top where he is right now. Ben Wallace learned how to play proper defense in the post with his athleticism getting him to the top as well, after going undrafted. So that leaves me with this, what keeps Eddie Jordan from making this team into a good defensive team? Everybody besides Songalia has the speed to keep up with anyone in this league, we have two 6'11 guys on the team and one 7 footer to establish a presence in the paint, we have the length in our smaller guys to keep the other team from draining three's all day. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Top defensive teams have top defensive players. When I think of top defensive big man I think of Tim Duncan, and Ben Wallace. Not Brendan Haywood. When I think of defensive perimeter players I think of Tayshaun Prince, Ron Artest, and Bruce Bowen. Not Deshawn Stevenson.</div> You definitely do not need top defensive players to be the best in the game. The Pistons only had Ben Wallace as one of their top defensive players, while everyone else was just a good defender, that anyone can develop. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lol Zydrunas Illgauskas is not what I would call a dominant Center. lol the Wizards and Cavs played again this year in the playoffs. Let's see how Washingtons fearsome twin towers did against a Zydrunas Illgauskas that averaged 12 PPG and 9 RPG. <u>Big Z vs Washington 2007</u> 19.0 PPG 11.0 RPG 1.5 BPG 60% FG</div> Hello? If you haven't noticed about the beef that Haywood and Eddie had this season, you'd know that Haywood only played 34 minutes total in that series. It was Etan Thomas that played for most of the series and started against the Cavs, and Ilgauskas had a field day over him easily taking him out of the paint with his jumper and grabbing rebounds over him easily. Any Wizards fan would take Haywood over Etan defensively, and it was because of that which was why Ilgauskas was able to tower over Etan. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What makes me think of that potential is that he has done jack **** in his first two years. Not many players have done that and went on to become all-stars. Jermaine is the only one. That is what makes me think of that potential. History repeats itself.</div> Ben Wallace, no? How about all the guards that came from the bottom to be that damn good? The only reason you'd think that he hasn't done jack in his first two years is because you haven't seen him play at all in his first two years and you know it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nice try. You have no idea how to respond to that your going to try and weasel your way out with that bullshit. Here I'll put it again so you can try again.</div> How to respond? You haven't responded to most of the things I posted in this thread, while you only nitpick the stuff that you can only respond to. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Or getting 20 MPG at least. I can count the number of players on one hand that haver avergaed less than 4.0 PPG in their first two years in the league and went on to be an all-star. Jermaine, Ben Wallace(even though he isn't an offensive player), ughhhhhhhhhhh. Blatches maximum potential IMO is a weak starter or solid 6th man.He won't be any first, second, or third scoring options on a dominant team. There are tons more players that had nothing to rely on except hard work and practice that have not risen them to the top.</div> Didn't you just say this? I'll say the same thing, since you did as well: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> What makes you think of that potential? From the 0 games you've seen of Andray Blatche? You still haven't responded to like 85% of my **** that I've posted in my previous post, so why should I bother listening to you when you're just going to half-ass your responses on a topic you know nothing about?</div> And don't even dodge it as well, you know it's true. Don't try to say it's a bitchy thing for me to say to avoid whatever pointless thing you have to say. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kwame Brown was mearly an example to show that even if you have the potential to be something big it doesn't always fall through. I could use many other guys if you don't like me using Kwame for some strange reason: Joe Smith, Sam Bowie, Darko Milicic, Ed O'Bannon, or even Derrick Coleman a guy who had the potential to be the best power forward ever but settled for playing until his next pay check.</div> Now I'll say examples of how second round choices in the draft no one thought had any potential in the league turned out to become. Gilbert Arenas, Dennis Rodman, Michael Redd, Mehmet Okur, Manu Ginobili, Rashard Lewis, I believe Steve Kerr, and there are plenty others. There are just as many examples of players having so much hype, but failing at the end, then as much as players having nothing to start with, then being an all-star later on. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not really sure if you want me to respond to this or if your just giving me a biography of Kwame Brown so I know why he didn't pan out the way people thought he would. Well now I know so thanks, but I've given some more examples if you didn't like the Kwame Brown example.</div> It's because you can't. You can only nitpick at the things you know at. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha and you thought I gave bad responses. Until the guy shows me that he can take over a game on either side of the court even on a first round and out team I'm not going to become a believer that the guy will someday become an all-star.</div> You haven't seen him play at all, so how he's gonna show that he can take over the game at either side of the court, if you don't even bother watching him play? Answer that. Do you realize right now that you're basing your argument and opinion on numbers and stats? Do you realize that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So the princeton offense HAS To revolve around the big three?</div> According to Eddie Jordan, it does. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know Blatche has some passing skills so why couldn't he be used like Webber was when he was in Sacramento? I think if the guys got game he could be successful in a role similar to that of Webber in his Kings days.</div> Explain that to Eddie Jordan. Andray is still young with a lot to develop, so I'm not expecting 20 and 10 numbers right now, but I'll say it again, if he decides to leave, he will excel. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No fucking **** he isn't in his prime, you moron. Where did I say he's in his prime?</div> HELLO?! You're thinking that he doesn't deserve his contract just because of the numbers you see. You're acting like he doesn't deserve his contract, even though you haven't seen him play whatsoever. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What I;m saying is that the guy got something like 3 PPG in his first two years in the league. You can work hard all you want, but I doubt a guy who gets 3 PPG is going to end up being the next Kevin Garnett or Rashard Lewis.</div> And again, you're saying this off of numbers you're reading. Why should even bother to respond? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Blatche is the 10th scoring option on a team. Odom was the third. I wonder whos name appears more in opposing teams gameplans? Hmmmm. Do you think Blatche could've done any better with those Clippers? This is the Clippers we're talking about.</div> Hell yeah. For one, they didn't have three shooting type guards to rely on, and if Andray Blatche was the 3rd primary man, he would've gotten the numbers Odom had in his second season or just as much. I'm saying this because the Clippers offense back then, was very different with the Wizards. The Clippers were falling and losing every game because they didn't have a solid nucleus, while the Wizards right now have Arenas, Butler, and Jamison to lead them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the majority of the time I'm watching the Wizards Blatche isn't playing so your right. Most of the time he's on the bench during the games so it's tough to see what he can do.</div> Then why bother discussing about a topic you have no knowledge of? Do yourself a favor and watch some Wizards games this season, before you make yourself look bad talking about the game of basketball. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It doesn't take a genius to figure out the guy isn't dominating the league.</div> I'm sorry, did you expect him to? Because you said it yourself that he isn't in his prime right now, and so did we. We all know that he isn't dominating this season, but we do see talent and potential, you don't because he doesn't have the numbers that you expect to have in his prime. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Once again one of those evading responses. If you don't want to respond in a mature manner then just don't say anything.</div> I wouldn't have to respond in a "evading" way if you learned the topic you're discussing right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And another one.... You really lazed off towards the end there. And you say I ignore things. Your a joke</div> Lazed off there? I responded to every single thing you had to say, unlike you who only responds to half of people's posts. You do ignore things and you are a joke.
Obviously someone is logging in the minutes to prevent Andray Blatche from playing valuable time and not just garbage minutes. So who are the guys on the team who keep stealing Andray Blatches minutes? And I Want to hear some names other than Jamison. And you claim Jamison isn't a true 4 either so that also makes me wonder. So Jamison is the one preventing Blatche from getting minutes according to you it seems. He isn't the only big guy on the team. I'm sure Blatche could get a regular run in the rotation backing up Jamison then. Why doesn't that happen? Nearly every player in the league is athletic. This league is the best of the best. There are a handful of players that have amazed me with their athleticism. Some of the guys that amaze/have amazed me with their athleticism are Fred Jones, Kendrick Brown, Desmond Mason, Ricky Davis, Stromile Swift, and Darius Miles. None of them got to be all-stars however. Darius Miles was projected to be a guy that would be a perennial all-star. We found out the only reason he is in the league though is because of his athleticism and that alone was not enough for him to succeed. I'd like to know exactly what bigmen he did a good job defending as well. The game where he logged the most minutes this past year(32 minutes vs Minnesota), KG had an amazing game 26 Points, 17 rebounds, 4 Assist on 11-21 shooting while leading his team to a win. Yeah nice D. And just if your curious Blatche got 6 points and 6 rebounds on 30% shooting that game. In the game where he got the most minutes. I'll look at the other games he logged 30+ minutes. He had a 30 minute game vs the Hornets. Davis West got 17 Points and 8 Rebounds on 50% shooting. That is about his season average, so I won't say Blatche did a bad job. I just won't say that defense will get him to be an all-star someday. And finally Blatches last 30+ minute game of the year. It was against Seattle and Chris Wilcox. Chris Wilcox got 27 Points, and 22 Rebounds that game. Yes you read that right. 22 Rebounds. Wilcox averaged 13 PPG and 7 RPG for the season. That certainly isn't all-star defense. You think his range will help him be an all-star? lmfao. His 7-40 career shooting from downtown is very convincing. That's good for 17.5% from downtown. And I bet nearly all of those shots were wide open. Last year the 10 guys who were in the rotation the most were Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler, Jared Jefferies, Brendan Haywood, Antonio Daniels, Etan Thomas, Billy Thomas, Mike Ruffin, and Donnel Taylor. All were more ready to play than Andray Blatche. So who do you think would be a better player to build the teams offense around? Gilbert Arenas or Andray Blatche. Clearly Gilbert Arenas is the teams franchise player. He is still young, is a top 3 guy in the league at his position, and is a very chill dude who won't cause any TO or Kobe drama. So how do you know what Eddie Jordans coaching philosophy is? Maybe when you get into that Washington locker room you can ask him if he's halfassing his job since he already knows he's getting paid or if he's putting his heart into the job. I would be very eager to hear the answer. He had a good game offensively, but if you haven't noticed, playing defense is just as significant if not, even more important than playing offense. You're obviously dodging my point on how Biedrins and Brand killed Songalia in the paint, but I'll say it again so it'll be clear to you: Washington was winning by halftime because the team shot 64% for the first half. It wasn't because of their defense that's for sure. During the third quarter they nobody was making any plays for the Wizards, but Darius Songalia. You need some kind of offensive spark to win games. The real problem was stopping the Oakland shooters and Baron Davis. Jason Richardson shot 4-8 from downtown and B-Diddy 3-6. As a team they shot 40% from downtown. And although Biedrins raped Washington he wasn't the only one doing the raping. Darius Songalia is certainly not the only one to blame. And as for the rebounding game Washington outrebounded Golden State 44-36. Golden State was limited to 9 RPG which is actually pretty decent. For the Clippers game Brand was held to 2 Offensive Rebounds. He averages 3.4. It also took Brand 18 shots to get 18 points which is pretty bad. The Chicago Bulls got to the second round. The Wizards got to the first. That is the biggest leap between contending teams and first round and out teams. San Antonio the most succesfull franchise in the last decade never lost earlier than the second round. (They did in 00, but that was because Duncan was out.) Alright dude just because you have the physicallity to be a good defender doesn't mean you will. No coach in the league oculd ever turn Brendan Haywood into a Tim Duncan. No coach in the league could turn Etan Thomas into Ben Wallace. Gilbert Arenas won't be Isiah Thomas. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Pistons only had Ben Wallace as one of their top defensive players, while everyone else was just a good defender, that anyone can develop.</div> Oh boy you didn't just say that. I don't know if you know, but Rasheed Wallace is one of the top post defenders in the league. He's right up there with KG and Duncan. Just because he doesn't get the high RPG and BPG Ben Wallace does doesn't make him an average defender. Anyone that has seen Rasheed Wallace play knows his defensive skills. He knows all the tricks. Then you have Tayshaun Prince. Tayshaun has those long ass arms and if you watched the 04 Finals you say how he shut Kobe down almost single handly. As you can see Tayshaun still made the Second All Defensive Team this year without Ben Wallace. This past year the Pistons were the 6th rated defense in the league? Are you going to credit Flip Saunders for that? Flip is probably near the bottom of the list of top defensive coaches in the league. Even Ben Wallace publically criticized him last year for not stressing enough defense on focusing only on Offense. Here's what you initially said about the Wizards-Cavaliers Series in 2006. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Haywood and Thomas shown that they are capable with their size to play defense against some of the better centers in the league. Last year's 2006 series against the Cavs is one I can truly remember off the top of my head. Now I say Ilguaskas was held to in all 6 games, because that season he averaged 15 points and 7 rebounds. His series average against Haywood and Thomas were: 9 points, 6 rebounds and quite a bit of fouls and and turnovers during that series.</div> Here you claim Etan Thomas and Brendan Haywood caused him problems. Now your claiming something along the sort of Etan Thomas being unable to play with Z because he sucks on defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> It was Etan Thomas that played for most of the series and started against the Cavs, and Ilgauskas had a field day over him easily taking him out of the paint with his jumper and grabbing rebounds over him easily. Any Wizards fan would take Haywood over Etan defensively, and it was because of that which was why Ilgauskas was able to tower over Etan.</div> Contradiction #1 Ben Wallace, no? How about all the guards that came from the bottom to be that damn good? The only reason you'd think that he hasn't done jack in his first two years is because you haven't seen him play at all in his first two years and you know it. Ok dude, Andray Blatche doesn't have a quarter of the defense that Ben Wallace does. So don't ever do that comparison again. What guards are you referring to when you say that all those guards that came from the bottom to the top? T-Mac averaged 7 and 9 in his first two years and his potential was a phenom. Gilbert averaged 11 and 18 in his first two years. K-Mart got 3 and 11. So really which guards are you thinking of? And Blatche isn't even a guard either, but whatever. And since you think he has done something in his first two years in the league what has he done? He has proved NOTHING. It's all speculation. The fact that Blatche has accomplished nothing in this league so far is something that makes me edgy as far as his potential has gone. You can thank me for responding to that one sentence response. Now I'll say examples of how second round choices in the draft no one thought had any potential in the league turned out to become. Gilbert Arenas, Dennis Rodman, Michael Redd, Mehmet Okur, Manu Ginobili, Rashard Lewis, I believe Steve Kerr, and there are plenty others. There are just as many examples of players having so much hype, but failing at the end, then as much as players having nothing to start with, then being an all-star later on. Let's see how your examples of second round steals did in their first two years. Manu Ginobili: 7 PPG and 13 PPG Gilbert Arenas: 11 PPG and 18 PPG Mike Redd: 2 PPG and 11 PPG(He played 6 games his first year) Okur: 7 PPG and 10 PPG Shard Lewis: 2 PPG and 8 PPG Rodman: 6 PPG and 11 PPG(along with 8 RPG and he isn't even an offensive player) Now here's your guy in Blatche: 2 PPG and 4 PPG All those guys were with the same team in those years as well. They didn't need a change of environment. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You haven't seen him play at all</div> Is this your only argument at all? I see this in nearly every one of your responses. Just so you know I have seen him play. He had a nice tip in dunk over Posey during a Heat-Wizards game this year, but that's the only thing I've seen that made me go wow. And a lot of players that arn't all-star talents have done that same play so nothing about him tells me he'll be an all-star. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Explain that to Eddie Jordan. Andray is still young with a lot to develop, so I'm not expecting 20 and 10 numbers right now, but I'll say it again, if he decides to leave, he will excel.</div> What do you think he would average next year if he left Washington and what year would be emerge as an all-star in your opinion? lol and that's where we have differrent opinions. You think Andray Blatche would be just as/better than Odom was on the Clippers while I don't. There's really no way for either of us to prove their right in that aspect however. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm sorry, did you expect him to? Because you said it yourself that he isn't in his prime right now, and so did we. We all know that he isn't dominating this season, but we do see talent and potential, you don't because he doesn't have the numbers that you expect to have in his prime. </div> I wouldn't expect him to be dominating the league but I would expect a solid 7-8 PPG from the guy. The guy should at least be a regular in the Washington rotation, but he just isn't. The guy has only gotten minutes because other guys on the team were injured. Doesn't show a whole lot of confidence in him from the Washington organization.
<div class="quote_poster">Diesel Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously someone is logging in the minutes to prevent Andray Blatche from playing valuable time and not just garbage minutes. So who are the guys on the team who keep stealing Andray Blatches minutes? And I Want to hear some names other than Jamison. So Jamison is the one preventing Blatche from getting minutes according to you it seems. He isn't the only big guy on the team. I'm sure Blatche could get a regular run in the rotation backing up Jamison then.</div> Eddie Jordan only wants to use a 7-8 man rotation every game when everyone is healthy. He'll use Arenas, Stevenson, Butler, Jamison, Haywood, Thomas, Daniels, and Hayes normally just about every game. The Big Three don't like to be benched and want to play as much as they can in the entire game. Ever since Songalia returned in late February, he's been getting more playing time than Blatche because he is more fit in the princeton offense. He's been used to the princeton offense ever since his days with the Kings and he's a scoring type that Eddie likes. Most likely other than that though, you'll see Roger Mason on the floor when he's hot sharing minutes with Donell Taylor. Calvin Booth will do the same with Ruffin, but what's your point? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nearly every player in the league is athletic. This league is the best of the best. There are a handful of players that have amazed me with their athleticism. Some of the guys that amaze/have amazed me with their athleticism are Fred Jones, Kendrick Brown, Desmond Mason, Ricky Davis, Stromile Swift, and Darius Miles.</div> Notice how most of those guys are guards though. The league is packed with guards, wingmans, Jordan wannabes, whatever you want to call them, so obviously they are just a stunt double in line wanting a chance in this league. Andray Blatche plays forward and we all know that productive big men are very hard to find in this league anymore, which is why Oden's hype is so big. Yeah, those guys are athletic as well, but besides Stromile, all of them play guard or 3 spot position, so they're most likely to be athletic, I mean if they're not, they shouldn't even be in this league. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">None of them got to be all-stars however. Darius Miles was projected to be a guy that would be a perennial all-star. We found out the only reason he is in the league though is because of his athleticism and that alone was not enough for him to succeed.</div> Darius Miles is a different case though. Him, Q-rich, and Odom looked nice in Los Angeles, but being traded to the worst team in the NBA at the time, there really wasn't much Darius could've lead. I think anyone would've traded him if they drafted a guy like LeBron James. What hurt his career though was making idiotic statements and decisions in front of the media, which can really hurt a player's career. They criticized his effort and attitude when he was part of the 17-65 Cavaliers, he made a confrontation with Maurice Cheeks insulting him with racial slurs also saying that he didn't care if the Blazers only won 20 games. Even with Miles' quickness and talent, he played like he belonged in this league beginning the 05-06 season with a great start, until he got injured for 3 months. He looked to be traded once again before that trade deadline making an effort to play, but once the deadline passed and ending up in the same team, he didn't look like he cared anymore for that season. So sometimes a person's attitude and work ethic can be the kryptonite of a player's career here. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd like to know exactly what bigmen he did a good job defending as well. The game where he logged the most minutes this past year(32 minutes vs Minnesota), KG had an amazing game 26 Points, 17 rebounds, 4 Assist on 11-21 shooting while leading his team to a win. Yeah nice D. And just if your curious Blatche got 6 points and 6 rebounds on 30% shooting that game.</div> That game WAS NOT televised because of ABC's agreement with blacking out games, so they could market their games on Sunday afternoons, so I did not get a chance to see that game, but funny that you mention the T-Wolves, since the same two teams played those 5 days ago, which I was there. Yeah, Garnett had 26 points in 41 minutes, but 10 of those came off free-throws. Blatche guarded him nearly the entire game and the crowd was impressed with how he handled Garnett on defense forcing him to miss and make his shots from the foul line. I don't care about his 13 rebounds though, we all know that he's taking them away from Blount and that Garnett only had 3 offensive rebounds that game. But let's look at Blatche's statline that game. 7 points, 12 rebounds (3 off), 3 assists on 25 minutes? Good job trying to feed around the bush like they didn't play that first meeting. The statline looks pretty convincing to me for the second game, but I'm not gonna make any judgments like you do when I don't watch a game that's not televised. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In the game where he got the most minutes. I'll look at the other games he logged 30+ minutes. He had a 30 minute game vs the Hornets. Davis West got 17 Points and 8 Rebounds on 50% shooting. That is about his season average, so I won't say Blatche did a bad job. I just won't say that defense will get him to be an all-star someday.</div> Not gonna bother to mention Blatche's statline? 10 points on 50% shooting alongside 7 rebounds? I think I remember this game though because Songalia played a lot of minutes that game as well and with his lackluster defense, anyone could've shot 50% over him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And finally Blatches last 30+ minute game of the year. It was against Seattle and Chris Wilcox. Chris Wilcox got 27 Points, and 22 Rebounds that game. Yes you read that right. 22 Rebounds. Wilcox averaged 13 PPG and 7 RPG for the season. That certainly isn't all-star defense.</div> I have the game taped. Antawn Jamison was guarding him the entire game, smart guy. But let's look at Blatche's statline to put the icing on the cake for you. 12 points on 6-8 shooting, 7 rebounds and 4 assists. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You think his range will help him be an all-star? lmfao. His 7-40 career shooting from downtown is very convincing. That's good for 17.5% from downtown. And I bet nearly all of those shots were wide open.</div> I never said his range from downtown would make him an all-star, smartass. He's been shooting a lot of 18-19 foot jumpers when he got the chance, and sinking a lot of them. I'm sorry, but did Yao Ming needed 3 point shooting to make him a good shooter? Yao Ming is 1-7 in his career in 3 point shooting, but do we judge Yao's shooting by only his shooting from downtown? No, Yao took about the same shots as Blatche did from the same range, about 17-19 foot shots, and sank lots of them. I never said Blatche's range from downtown was good at all, I've always meant his range from about 17-19 feet. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Last year the 10 guys who were in the rotation the most were Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler, Jared Jefferies, Brendan Haywood, Antonio Daniels, Etan Thomas, Billy Thomas, Mike Ruffin, and Donnel Taylor. All were more ready to play than Andray Blatche.</div> Billy Thomas? Hello, do you even know who he is? Because I barely even remember him. If you're just looking at last year's statbook, let me remind you that Blatche being shot took him out for most of the season, and that this was really his real rookie season. Ask any Wizards and even they'll think last year's Blatche was more NBA ready than last year's Thomas. Most of the guys you've mentioned are guards, except for Ruffin, Thomas and Haywood. I won't lie, all of them are more NBA ready than Blatche now because they've had more experience and knew their roles in DC. If you want to compare Blatche to guys like Donell Taylor and Awvee Storey though, I'd probably choose him over Taylor and Storey anyday. Donell joined the same year as Blatche did, but try shooting Taylor on the chest forcing him to miss most of the season. Even without a bullet, he still only played 51 games. He knows the offense pretty well, but he can't execute it well as a point guard, he shoots it a lot from 3, but misses. Billy Thomas? Psh, he's not even worth mentioning...but I'm not gonna compare Andray Blatche to these 3 guys because Blatche plays an entire different position than these two, but I won't lie, Ruffin, Thomas and Haywood were definitely more NBA ready than Blatche's rookie season...when he got shot. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So who do you think would be a better player to build the teams offense around? Gilbert Arenas or Andray Blatche. Clearly Gilbert Arenas is the teams franchise player. He is still young, is a top 3 guy in the league at his position, and is a very chill dude who won't cause any TO or Kobe drama. </div> When the hell did I say that Eddie Jordan should focus this team around Andray Blatche? When did I say that Andray Blatche should be the nucleus of this team? Obviously Gilbert Arenas is the team's franchise and the team builds around him. Why do you even think the GM Ernie Grunfeld brought Arenas and Eddie Jordan together? Gilbert Arenas loves to control the offense and score, while EJ's princeton offense fits Gilbert Arenas' playing style. It doesn't fit Andray Blatche's because he's a big man that likes to play low post, while only taking a shot from 17-19, once in a while. Why don't you understand that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So how do you know what Eddie Jordans coaching philosophy is? Maybe when you get into that Washington locker room you can ask him if he's halfassing his job since he already knows he's getting paid or if he's putting his heart into the job. I would be very eager to hear the answer.</div> I'd be eager to know the answer too, but the fans here in DC definitely do not like him. We don't think he does good job coaching defense, which you need in the NBA. There's no definite answer, just opinions, but majority rules over you thinks that Eddie Jordan is halfassing his job. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Washington was winning by halftime because the team shot 64% for the first half. It wasn't because of their defense that's for sure.</div> Nope, but it was keeping our lead in shape. But thing was in the second half, Eddie Jordan freakin' sat Gilbert, Antwan, and Caron on the bench for mostly the entire 3rd quarter and nearly half of the 4th, so nobody was able to make plays to secure our lead or get us close when we lost it, until they came back in, answer that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">During the third quarter they nobody was making any plays for the Wizards, but Darius Songalia. You need some kind of offensive spark to win games.</div> I never made knocks on Songalia's offensive game. He's got a real nice jumper, but that was probably the only thing we had in the 3rd quarter. AD was only making the passes, Roger Mason wasn't capable of taking over the game, Etan wasn't much of a help, and Arvis Hayes...lol. Offensive spark? Hello? Gilbert, Caron, and Antwan were our offensive spark in the first half, if you didn't notice, but I'll say it again. EJ sat them for most of the second half, and our offensive relies on the big three...without one of those players, the team is not as successful. I think the defensive presence wasn't felt as usual, but you won't stop the Golden State Warriors with a lineup like Hayes, Daniels, Mason, Songalia and Thomas though. There was NO ANSWER for Biedrins, Daniels and Hayes were too small for B-diddy and J-rich, that was pretty much the reason for the 38-21 third quarter for the Warriors. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The real problem was stopping the Oakland shooters and Baron Davis. Jason Richardson shot 4-8 from downtown and B-Diddy 3-6. As a team they shot 40% from downtown. And although Biedrins raped Washington he wasn't the only one doing the raping. Darius Songalia is certainly not the only one to blame.</div> Didn't you see that 3rd quarter? Oh wait, I forgot, you only read the stats. Biedrins had 5 offensive rebounds that game and about 4 came in that 3rd quarter, where he just got the board and tipped it back in. He played 46 minutes that game because Don Nelson saw that mismatch with him and Songalia and knew he was able to take advantage in that 3rd quarter if he had kept Biedrins in the game. It worked, it hurt us, we lost. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And as for the rebounding game Washington outrebounded Golden State 44-36.</div> The Warriors only played 8 men that night, Biedrins was the only one doing the work on the boards, while the rest kept jacking up threes. The Wizards have a lot more big bodies to utilize, but Eddie Jordan's dumbass kept Haywood and Blatche out who were doing a great job in the first half, for all of the second half. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For the Clippers game Brand was held to 2 Offensive Rebounds. He averages 3.4. It also took Brand 18 shots to get 18 points which is pretty bad.</div> I totally forgot about Kaman as well...yes Chris Kaman. It was pretty much the same situation as the Warriors game the previous night, where EJ decides to go JV lineup, keep Haywood and Blatche out and from there, Kaman got fouled, made ALL 9 of his free-throws, him and Brand controlled the boards, took over the lead and the momentum in the second half, and it was too little, too late when EJ put back the big three. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Chicago Bulls got to the second round. The Wizards got to the first. That is the biggest leap between contending teams and first round and out teams. San Antonio the most succesfull franchise in the last decade never lost earlier than the second round. (They did in 00, but that was because Duncan was out.)</div> Hello? In case you forgot, we were kind shorthanded losing about 47 points a game...oh yeah, the 2 most important players of our team, Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler. Hello, we had a great chance of winning this series, considering how close we were in EVERY game of the 4 game series, but relying on Jamison to carry the load, wouldn't do it. You could make an argument with LeBron James still being able to take over the series, but realize how he did his overnight growing in the series against the Pistons, when he got those 48 points. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Alright dude just because you have the physicallity to be a good defender doesn't mean you will. No coach in the league oculd ever turn Brendan Haywood into a Tim Duncan. No coach in the league could turn Etan Thomas into Ben Wallace. Gilbert Arenas won't be Isiah Thomas.</div> Brendan Haywood didn't have the attitude to become a great player. We refer to him as Brenda because he would always be frustrated and upset for like nothing. His shot and baby fadeaway has never fell, he got his points off a few dunks and offensive rebounds, but that's about it. No one ever compared his game to Tim Duncan, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. The thing with Ben Wallace is that he's a one of a kind player. It's amazing looking at him being 6'9, going undrafted. It was really his heart and determination on and off the court, in the lockerroom that led the Pistons to the championship, and the Pistons were missing him when they played the Cavs. With Etan though, his game is similar to his. When Etan took the starting role once again for late rest of the season after the Haywood/EJ incident, Etan showed some great shotblocking and rebounding ability. He was never a good offensive player either, but I don't think you can make this comparison either seeming that Ben Wallace is just one of a kind, and no one else has the game like he has either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh boy you didn't just say that. I don't know if you know, but Rasheed Wallace is one of the top post defenders in the league. He's right up there with KG and Duncan. Just because he doesn't get the high RPG and BPG Ben Wallace does doesn't make him an average defender. Anyone that has seen Rasheed Wallace play knows his defensive skills. He knows all the tricks. Then you have Tayshaun Prince. Tayshaun has those long ass arms and if you watched the 04 Finals you say how he shut Kobe down almost single handly. As you can see Tayshaun still made the Second All Defensive Team this year without Ben Wallace. This past year the Pistons were the 6th rated defense in the league? Are you going to credit Flip Saunders for that? Flip is probably near the bottom of the list of top defensive coaches in the league. Even Ben Wallace publically criticized him last year for not stressing enough defense on focusing only on Offense.</div> You know what I mean, I never meant to knock on his defensive skills. You know I meant to say he was a great post defender as well, but I'm just saying with Ben Wallace, he made others look small and puny, but no offense to the rest of the Pistons squad. They're good too, but I'm just praising Ben Wallace's defensive skills a lot. Yes, I remember Prince as well. It came out the wrong way, I know how much Prince means to the team because the ABC and TNT announcers wouldn't stop praising his game as well. Yes, yes, I know that him and Sheed was just as good. I was just praising Ben's game a bit too much. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Here you claim Etan Thomas and Brendan Haywood caused him problems. Now your claiming something along the sort of Etan Thomas being unable to play with Z because he sucks on defense. </div> Wait a minute, I'll say it again, I'd take Haywood over Etan on defense anyday. The thing was though, Haywood was on Ilgauskas in that 2006 series for truly most of all 6 games. I have tape to about 2 of those games in the series, and I'll look them over and come back to the point when I get back home from New York. I'm saying the thing was though that, it's not like Haywood and Thomas had the same amount of playing time, because it mostly seemed like when Ilguaskas went in, Haywood went in, when Ilgauskas went out, Haywood went out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok dude, Andray Blatche doesn't have a quarter of the defense that Ben Wallace does.</div> Hello? It was an example of how players had nothing being undrafted and everything, but rose to the top. I never compared either of those two's games. It's 2 different things here. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What guards are you referring to when you say that all those guards that came from the bottom to the top?</div> Michael Redd (mid-late 2nd rounder), Mehmet Okur, Carlos Boozer, Cuttino Mobley, Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr, Rashard Lewis, Nick Van Exel, Anthony Mason, Jeff Hornacek, Toni Kukoc, Manu Ginobili, Mark Price and Dennis Rodman. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">T-Mac averaged 7 and 9 in his first two years and his potential was a phenom.</div> Did I say anything about him though? I don't think so. I never said T-mac had nothing, it's not like no one gave T-mac a chance here. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And Blatche isn't even a guard either, but whatever. And since you think he has done something in his first two years in the league what has he done?</div> He has shown the potential of being somebody though, and that's hard to elaborate and explain when you haven't seen him play yet, and staring at his stats won't help either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The fact that Blatche has accomplished nothing in this league so far is something that makes me edgy as far as his potential has gone.</div> Let's look at Ben Wallace though. He did nothing in his first 2 years as a Wizard. 1 point and 1 rebound a game in his year, then 3 points and 4 rebounds his second year as well. Did anyone pay attention to him? Nope, now let's look at his 3rd year as a Wizard. 6 points and 8 rebounds? It speculated trade offers, which landed him in Orlando. He had 4 points and 8 rebounds in his first year in Orlando, but it wasn't until the year after in Detroit where he averaged 6 and 13. This proves that you do not need 20 and 10 numbers in your first two years to prove that you're going to be the best or whatever. I bet you that no one gave Ben Wallace any attention until that third season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's see how your examples of second round steals did in their first two years. Manu Ginobili: 7 PPG and 13 PPG Gilbert Arenas: 11 PPG and 18 PPG Mike Redd: 2 PPG and 11 PPG(He played 6 games his first year) Okur: 7 PPG and 10 PPG Shard Lewis: 2 PPG and 8 PPG Rodman: 6 PPG and 11 PPG(along with 8 RPG and he isn't even an offensive player) Now here's your guy in Blatche: 2 PPG and 4 PPG All those guys were with the same team in those years as well. They didn't need a change of environment.</div> That's because the enviroment was right for them the first time around. They worked their asses off during those summers, while Blatche did the same last summer, but it's just Eddie's system that doesn't fit blatche. Eddie's princeton offense revolves around guards, Blatche is not one. I'm willing to sig bet you, if Blatche does decide to opt out, watch him excel in 3 years. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is this your only argument at all? I see this in nearly every one of your responses. Just so you know I have seen him play. He had a nice tip in dunk over Posey during a Heat-Wizards game this year, but that's the only thing I've seen that made me go wow. And a lot of players that arn't all-star talents have done that same play so nothing about him tells me he'll be an all-star.</div> Well thank you for finally responding to that, but even that doesn't convince me that you've watched him at all. If you're a new NBA fan and randomly saw Gilbert Arenas in that game against the Blazers were he scored 9 points of a promised 50, and it's your first time watching him play, what would you say? That he's trash right? Thing is, if that NBA fan would see him for all 82 games, he'd know what kind of player Gilbert Arenas is. This is the same with you, your first impression isn't good enough for you to believe what kind of player Blatche will be. The thing is though, you've only saw that game, unlike others where he played so much better in other plays this season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What do you think he would average next year if he left Washington and what year would be emerge as an all-star in your opinion?</div> It really depends on the team he's going to and what role he'll play on the team. Let's put this point aside for right now though, but if he does decide to leave, then we'll return to it and I'll answer it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't expect him to be dominating the league but I would expect a solid 7-8 PPG from the guy. The guy should at least be a regular in the Washington rotation, but he just isn't. The guy has only gotten minutes because other guys on the team were injured. Doesn't show a whole lot of confidence in him from the Washington organization.</div> I've said this about 20 times in the thread, but I'll say it again. Andray Blatche's real rookie season was this year. Last year was a recovery year after being shot and only then was he playing garbage minutes to get back into shape and fitness. Answer this, why do you think Darius Songalia gets more minutes that Andray Blatche does? It's because Darius Songalia fits the princeton offense, while Blatche doesn't. Songalia is firmiliar with it playing it in Sacramento, while Blatche came out of a high school. Andray Blatche doesn't fit this system because it is mostly guard oriented and one's who can shoot 3's a lot like the Big three. Blatche likes to play his game in the post a lot, get rebounds and go above the rim. That's not Eddie Jordan's game though, put him on the Nets and I'll guarantee you that he will excel.
