CERN Finds “Significant” Cosmic Ray Cloud Effect

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Aug 30, 2011.

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  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If the models are their best means, and they are making dire warnings about future rise of oceans, etc., then they are using the models as proof of their assertions.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 2, 2011
    #81
  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    No, that does not logically follow.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 2, 2011
    #82
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Apparently liberals need schooling for economics and logic.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 2, 2011
    #83
  4. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    My position is that items out of our control are the primary driver of global warmth or cooling. We make some difference, but it's overwhelmed by systems we play no role in. All of that being said, I'm not against being prudent to limit our impact, I just don't want to destroy our economy over it.
     
    maxiep, Sep 2, 2011
    #84
  5. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    That's basically my position...if the science states that man-made sources really are destroying the planet at a rate greater than "natural" sources, then we need to shut China and India down right the heck now. Forget electric cars and solar panels, what about exponential increase in coal consumption, air pollution, sewage, etc.?
     
    BrianFromWA, Sep 2, 2011
    #85
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Apparently you are unable to support your claim, and have to fall back on non-specific accusations.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 2, 2011
    #86
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I supported my position with the NASA link. Misreading what it says and having the logic fault is your problem.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 2, 2011
    #87
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I agree with you - although it isn't clear exactly how we are going to shut down China and India if we decide that needs doing. Nuke them out of existence?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 2, 2011
    #88
  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    What we have been debating today is your claim about 'predicting the future'. You've failed to present any evidence that any scientists ever said they could predict the future, so your statement was in fact a strawman.

    Next?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 2, 2011
    #89
  10. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    Politicians and the UN claim "the science is settled" and quote many scientists to back their assertion that we must make multiple TRILLION dollar changes / charges to the economy to avert imminent disaster.

    How are they making the claim the science is settled? What are the scientists they are hiding behind saying? What the hell was Gore talking about with his Inconvenient Truth?

    To laypeople, they are all predicting imminent doom. If you want to hide behind semantics, fine. But unless credible people DO IN FACT predict really fucking bad shit happening in the future, no changes will occur. Nor, should they.
     
    Masbee, Sep 2, 2011
    #90
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    ^^^ Bingo.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 2, 2011
    #91
  12. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    One needs to make the distinction between scientists speaking about science on the one hand, and politicians, laypeople, Al Gore, etc on the other hand. The latter category is likely to exaggerate, use hyperbole, and ignore caveats and subtleties, as they do with every subject.

    Scientists DO IN FACT predict really fucking bad shit happening in the future. They do not, however, guarantee it. They merely think, at present, that it is more likely than not, based on our current knowledge, which is admittedly incomplete.

    If you want to wait for "proof", you'll have to wait a very long time, and at that point, it will be too late to do anything about it.

    I'm personally not sure that we should in fact do anything about climate change right now. I'm not sure we have the remedies figured out, even if we have diagnosed the disease correctly. But I am sure that attacking the scientists studying the problem is a really, really bad approach. Killing the messenger will not help.

    The question that is worthy of debate is what, if anything, should be done given our current understanding (and the uncertainty of that understanding).

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 2, 2011
    #92
  13. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    You have some real reading comprehension problems. You aren't measuring Climate.

    Dude stop, it is ok to admit you don't know what these computer models are measuring.
     
    huevonkiller, Sep 2, 2011
    #93
  14. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Yeah this is pretty much it.

    I love seeing Bluefrog get all depressed when the UN owns him. The truth of the matter is, even if anthropogenic climate change is real, we are not addressing how to "solve" it. More people will benefit from warmer climates anyway, what a bunch of radical banter from the left.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
    huevonkiller, Sep 2, 2011
    #94
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I have a computer model that suggests you might get hit by a car tomorrow, the next day, or the next.... Maybe you should call in sick so you don't get hit by that car.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 2, 2011
    #95
  16. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not sure what your point is.

    If all your computer model says is that the probability of getting hit is greater than zero on any given day, well, I already knew that and your model contributes nothing.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 2, 2011
    #96
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Not only does my model project you might get hit by a car, but the more CO2 in the atmosphere, the more likely it is you do get hit by that car.

    I judge from your response that you are starting to get it.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 3, 2011
    #97
  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yeah, I'm beginning to get that you don't have anything important to say :)

    barfo
     
    barfo, Sep 3, 2011
    #98
  19. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    More drama in the science world:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14768574

     
    Masbee, Sep 3, 2011
    #99
  20. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    The U.S. just wasted a trillion dollars on homeland security. Just putting barriers in front of government buildings cost over a hundred billion dollars.

    This was done because the right-wingers in charge had a model in their heads that predicted the future. The model said that we will be attacked.

    If the country can afford that, it can afford spending the same on the consensus of scientific models predicting a much, much bigger attack from rising temperatures.

    I would like to see more articles detailing cost estimates. I don't believe it would cost trillions to have higher standards for factories and cars, especially the new ones. Higher standards for new ones, in which nothing has to be modified, would be essentially free.
     
    jlprk, Sep 3, 2011
    #100
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