CERN Finds “Significant” Cosmic Ray Cloud Effect

Denny Crane · Sep 8, 2011

barfo said: ↑

Ovens are hot, blowtorches are hot, cheerleaders are hot. Doesn't mean your pants aren't on fire.

barfo
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Occam's Razor says whatever is heating the other planets is heating ours as well.

barfo · Sep 8, 2011

Denny Crane said: ↑

Occam's Razor says whatever is heating the other planets is heating ours as well.
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Occam's Razor says you should quit fighting reality, it's a losing battle.

barfo

barfo · Sep 8, 2011

Denny Crane said: ↑

Occam's Razor says whatever is heating the other planets is heating ours as well.
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There are three fundamental flaws in the 'other planets are warming' argument. Not all planets in the solar system are warming. The sun has shown no long term trend since 1950 and in fact has shown a slight cooling trend in recent decades. There are explanations for why other planets are warming.

The basis of this argument is that the sun must be causing global warming and in fact, warming throughout the solar system. There are several flaws in this line of thought. Firstly, the characterisation that the whole solar system is warming is erroneous. Around 6 planets or moons out of the more than 100 bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling (Young 2001).

Secondly, the theory that a brightening sun is causing global warming falls apart when you consider the sun has shown little to no trend since the 1950s. A variety of independent measurements of solar activity including satellite data, sunspot numbers, UV levels and solar magnetograms all paint a consistent picture. Over the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been moving in opposite directions.

That begs the question - what is causing warming on other planets? With the exception of Pluto, climate change on other planets are fairly understood:

Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo. Global dust storms increase the surface albedo by settling brighter dust on dark surfaces. Higher albedo leads to more sunlight being reflected which has a cooling effect. Snapshots of Mars' surface in 1977 and 1999 find that the surface was brighter in 1977 and darker in 1999. However, this doesn't necessarily point to a long term warming trend - the 1977 snapshot was made shortly after a global dust storm while the 1999 snapshot occured before a dust storm. Consequently, there is little empirical evidence that long term global warming on Mars is occuring (Richardson 2007). More on Mars...
Neptune's orbit is 164 years so observations (1950 to present day) span less than a third of a Neptunian year. Climate modelling of Neptune suggests its brightening is a seasonal response (Sromovsky 2003). Eg - Neptune's southern hemisphere is heading into summer. More on Neptune...
Neptune's largest moon, Triton, has warmed since the Voyager space probe visited it in 1989. The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight (Elliot 1998).
Jupiter's storms are fueled by the planet's own internal heat (sunlight is 4% the level of solar energy at Earth). When several storms merge into one large storm (eg - Red Spot Jr), the planet loses its ability to mix heat, causing warming at the equator and cooling at the poles (Marcus 2006). More on Jupiter...
Pluto's warming is not clearly understood. Pluto's orbit is much more elliptical than that of the other planets, and its rotational axis is tipped by a large angle relative to its orbit. Both factors could contribute to drastic seasonal changes. As Pluto's orbit is equivalent to 248 Earth years and observed warming spans only 14 years, it is likely this is a seasonal response (Sromovsky 2003).
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Link.

barfo

bluefrog · Sep 8, 2011

Denny Crane said: ↑

A question I raise is why is there detected warming trends on other planets that don't have an industrial revolution?
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And here is the answer:

The Sun's energy output has not increased since direct measurements began in 1978 (see Climate myth special: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans). If increased solar output really was responsible, we should be seeing warming on all the planets and their moons, not just Mars and Pluto.

Our solar system has eight planets, three dwarf planets and quite a few moons with at least a rudimentary atmosphere, and thus a climate of sorts. Their climates will be affected by local factors such as orbital variations, changes in reflectance (albedo) and even volcanic eruptions, so it would not be surprising if several planets and moons turn out to be warming at any one time.
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The warming (on Mars) could be a regional effect. And recent results from the thermal imaging system on the Mars Odyssey probe suggest that the polar cap is not shrinking at all, but varies greatly from one Martian year to the next, although the details have yet to be published.

Observations of the thickness of Pluto's atmosphere in 2002 suggested the dwarf planet was warming even as its orbit took it further from the Sun. The finding baffled astronomers at the time, and the cause has yet to be determined.
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Denny Crane · Sep 9, 2011

Albedo.

huevonkiller · Sep 12, 2011

Denny Crane said: ↑

Wrong questions.

The data and observations for this ten year period can easily not match those of other periods.

Especially during the big chill years of the middle ages.

Besides that, there's been cooling the past ten years. Data from the prior ten years might becalmed different.
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This should be obvious to anyone that knows anything about "climate". Thanks Denny.

bluefrog said: ↑

And here is the answer:
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The temperature on Venus correlates with its atmospheric pressure, not its 96% CO2 atmosphere.

That alone would be sufficient to disprove you, Denny in fact, went over this a long time ago.

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CERN Finds “Significant” Cosmic Ray Cloud Effect

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CERN Finds “Significant” Cosmic Ray Cloud Effect

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Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

bluefrog Go Blazers, GO!

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huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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