Championship: Ohio State vs. Florida

<div class="quote_poster">A.F. Venom Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can you beat a team twice and they are still being better for you? I mean it's a pointless argument for me, because the team I support got theirs. But for some reason when people say this it annoys me.</div>The first game was practically from another lifetime as far as this Ohio State team is concerned. I don't really care what happened in that game when I'm trying to decide who the better team is.

And, from last nights game, Florida's big big edge was the three point shooting. You can say, what if OSU made two more, they'd be 6-23, still horrible. What if Florida made two less, they'd be 8-18, still very good. And suddenly, despite there still being a huge edge on threes for Florida, Ohio State would have won. So I'm sure some people say, "Well, if it wasn't for Florida having a spectacular night from 3 and OSU having an awful one, OSU would have won, therefore, I think they're the better team." However, that's just not what happened. Afterall, you can also say that Oden played better than he usually did this tournament and come up with things going the other way. Florida won, and that's the way it is, so I myself am not going to try to claim we were better or anything, just letting you know why other people might since you asked.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Let me give you an example. The Milwaukee Bucks won both meetings against the San Antonio Spurs this year. Would you say the Bucks are better than the Spurs because they are 2-0 against them?</div>
No they aren't. But it's not the same to me. The Gators were a number one seed just like Ohio State was, both teams had to win all of their games in the tournament to get to the championship game. The Gators didn't play Ohio State in two regular season games. They beat them regular season, they beat the same amount of opponents OSU beat to get to the Chip', and they beat Ohio State in the championship.

This argument has came up both years UF has won, and I don't even understand why people bother. What do you think these ball clubs care about? Which team is considered better or which team actually wins the tournament?

I'm not really into college basketball, but isn't it the objective of a team to win when it matters?

Of course there are instances of a team thats going to get a tournament win, just because it was that night, but I'd be willing to bet UF would do this to OSU in a 7 game series. It doesn't matter, cause that'll never happen.

All I know is UF got what they came for, so forget being the best team, Ohio State can have that title if you guys want to give it to them. I'm content with the real Hardware.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^^I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's not a clear cut decision you make it out to be either. Florida essentially played two home games against Ohio State this year. Florida had a tremendous homecourt advantage playing in Atlanta for the Championship game.</div>

I think that's a valid excuse but a weak one nonetheless. Ohio State ultimately shot themselves in the foot that night and had a very atypical performance from all of their veterans and their wings. That's why I say that Ohio State is the better team, because they proved that even with Cook, Lewis, Butler, and Harris playing the worst ball of their career, they hung in with the Gators until the end.

What I don't get is why AF cares so much. He keep saying that all he cares about is coming home with the hardware, or some cliche bullshit like that, and yet he perpetuates the argument about the legitimacy of the tournament in crowning the league's best team. If he doesn't care who the better team is, then why keep responding to people saying that Ohio State is better?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think that's a valid excuse but a weak one nonetheless. Ohio State ultimately shot themselves in the foot that night and had a very atypical performance from all of their veterans and their wings. That's why I say that Ohio State is the better team, because they proved that even with Cook, Lewis, Butler, and Harris playing the worst ball of their career, they hung in with the Gators until the end.

What I don't get is why AF cares so much. He keep saying that all he cares about is coming home with the hardware, or some cliche bullshit like that, and yet he perpetuates the argument about the legitimacy of the tournament in crowning the league's best team. If he doesn't care who the better team is, then why keep responding to people saying that Ohio State is better?</div>
Maybe if you read what I said already:
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean it's a pointless argument for me, because the team I support got theirs. But for some reason when people say this it annoys me.</div>
That and I like arguing, so what?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ""******"":</div><div class="quote_post">Don't back-track. You said experience would carry them through the game, implying that Ohio State was inexperienced, but it was actually their inexperienced players that had the greatest impact.</div>
I'm not backtracking. I picked Florida to win because they had the experience coming into the Finals meaning they would know how to handle certain situations like countering an Ohio State run, for instance. I never said Ohio State was too inexperienced to win, I said Florida's experience would carry them to the victory hence why I said Florida was that much better in my second post.

I understand people's tale on Ohio State being better, but at the end of the day, they came up short when it mattered most.

 

Are you people serious? The #1 overall seed won quite easily and they aren't the best team? WTF? Jesus christ, Noah was right when he talked about the hating that we were receiving.

Boo hoo on the home games. It was basically the exact opposite at the BCS National Championship game(about 70-30) and the Gators still won that, so that argument is weak as hell. Let me guess the better team didn't win that game either? I mean obviously a 27 point win is just a fluke.

Is it just coincidence that both games that Ohio State played Florida, Ohio State "just shot bad"? Is it coincidence that nearly every game the Gators play the opponent just "shoots bad"? I think not. The Gators are so good because they absolutely dominate the 3 point line on both sides. The main reason for it is that we have Noah, Horford, Brewer running at them full speed and they have to get a little more arc on their shot or release it quicker to not get blocked. There is a reason why teams don't shoot well against us.

I'll eat my crow on Oden, but they let him play and they didn't let our guys play against him. Some of those no calls on Oden and some of the calls on Richard/Speights were an absolute joke. The refs basically let him dictate what the hell he wanted to do, while blowing some pretty ticky tack stuff on the Gators. I'm not gonna say that the game was unfairly called, because quite frankly I wasn't close enough and didn't have a good angle at it, but they certainly let Oden play. Oden is a helluva player and will be a damn good pro, but I still stand by my comment on him not being the leader on their team(Conley is) and him not being the greatest collegiate big man of all time like all the hype is. In the same breath Noah is horribly overrated. I was very disappointed in Horford though. He was so timid with the ball and settled for jump shots or fade aways after backing in. He needed to go right at Oden every single time.

I called it. I said it didn't really matter what Oden did, Ohio State had to win the Conley Jr vs. Green and Lewis vs. Brewer matchups and they didn't win either.

Did anyone actually think that Noah could guard Oden? I don't know why everyone is surprised and I don't really understand how his defense is now overrated because Oden dominated him in the couple of series that they matched up. Noah will NOT be a center in the NBA, so he won't have to play the man childs like Oden/Dwight/Amare, etc. He did a very good job on Harris and he is one of the main reasons why teams struggle shooting the 3 pointer against us.

You can keep hating on how we aren't the better team, but the fact of the matter is this team is one of the greatest teams in the history of college basketball and you can't take that away. Not only are we the first team to go back to back with all 5 starters, we are the first team to go back to back with the top 7 people in the rotation. So was the tournament really that weak last year?

I would just like to thank Humphrey and Richard for everything they have done for this program. They both don't get much publicity but if we didn't have either of them then we wouldn't have won either championship. Humphrey thrashed the career tournament 3 point record and always seems to come through when it matters. Richard played probably his 2 best games of his career in the Final 4 this year and both of them could have taken home a share of the MVP of the Final 4.

Also gotta say thanks to the 04's for everything they have done for the university. They put Florida Gator basketball on the map and we will miss all of them(if they leave). Right now I see Brewer moving up into the Top 10, Horford in the top 5, Noah on the line for the lottery, Green 2nd rounder. I could see Noah and Green returning, but I think all are gone.

btw, if Billy stays, don't count on Florida basketball to fall off the map. We still have some big talent coming in this year and last years class should be pretty good. Assuming everyone leaves our lineup should have Hodge, Calathes, Mitchell(i think he'll be pretty good), hole at PF(mitchell/tyus/werner), speights manning the middle. Hodge is gonna be a damn good offensive player, Calathes is one of the best incoming freshman in the nation and Speights is gonna be an absolute beast. We won't win it all next year, but don't be surprised to see us make the tourney and advance past the first weekend.

Even if Billy leaves, we will likely get Anthony Grant who did wonders over there at VCU. He knows the area to recruit and could probably keep the staff and same system that Billy D used. So I don't think we'll go off the map anytime soon.

 

Mmm.. good three point defense doesn't make a team shoot 4-23, no matter how good that three point defense is. I'm sure they caused some of that, but OSU was also missing open looks. Also, I think a lot of people here really don't like Florida's basketball team, but I don't have a problem with them, and think they definitely were the beast team the last two years.

Good riddance to Richard though, I really think that guy is a just plain crappy person after he elbowed an Ohio State player for no reason during a time out in the first game this season.

 

It depends what you consider doubting Oden. Many call him the second coming of David Robinson, which I strongly disagree with. I also heard some comments during the NCAA Finals saying Oden would be better than Patrick Ewing, which is clearly overrating him. I think Oden will not be as good as some of your young, premiere big men today: Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Yao Ming, Chris Bosh, etc. I do expect him to be a very solid pro though, but a future Hall of Fame player? No.

 

How can you make predictions like that when he's still in college? I mean those comparisons are pretty ridiculous too (mainly the Ewing one), but they're more taking into account his frame, his style of play, and his potential. He may very well be the second coming of David Robinson, when you look at how he plays the game and how he's built. That doesn't mean he's going to have an identical career, but rather its more of a projection of how he'll play in the NBA. Ultimately, his career (whether its a HOF one or a bust), will be in his own hands. Saying that he won't be as good as current players means you not only have to arbitrarily predict how his career will be (when you don't know what team he'll be on, what coach he'll play under, what his role will be, etc.), but also how all of those players will develop in the next few years. Based merely on his potential, work ethic, style of play, etc. I think he's as good a prospect, if not a better one, as all of those players.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you make predictions like that when he's still in college? I mean those comparisons are pretty ridiculous too (mainly the Ewing one), but they're more taking into account his frame, his style of play, and his potential. He may very well be the second coming of David Robinson, when you look at how he plays the game and how he's built. That doesn't mean he's going to have an identical career, but rather its more of a projection of how he'll play in the NBA. Ultimately, his career (whether its a HOF one or a bust), will be in his own hands. Saying that he won't be as good as current players means you not only have to arbitrarily predict how his career will be (when you don't know what team he'll be on, what coach he'll play under, what his role will be, etc.), but also how all of those players will develop in the next few years. Based merely on his potential, work ethic, style of play, etc. I think he's as good a prospect, if not a better one, as all of those players.</div>
In terms of build and style of play, he is somewhat comparable to David Robinson, but when I heard ?second coming? of David Robinson (either on the radio, ESPN, can?t remember) it was in the context that he could replicate some of their accolades, which I believe he won?t do. And better than Patrick Ewing is one I heard during the NCAA Finals. If calling Oden better than Patrick Ewing is considered ?doubting him? then I am indeed doubting Oden.

At the end of the day, the NBA draft is pretty much a prediction game, right? Based on what I see now, I don?t see Oden being better than Howard, Amare, Bosh, which isn?t a bad thing. I could be wrong, but that?s just a mere prediction I?m making now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In terms of build and style of play, he is somewhat comparable to David Robinson, but when I heard ?second coming? of David Robinson (either on the radio, ESPN, can?t remember) it was in the context that he could replicate some of their accolades, which I believe he won?t do. And better than Patrick Ewing is one I heard during the NCAA Finals. If calling Oden better than Patrick Ewing is considered ?doubting him? then I am indeed doubting Oden.

At the end of the day, the NBA draft is pretty much a prediction game, right? Based on what I see now, I don?t see Oden being better than Howard, Amare, Bosh, which isn?t a bad thing. I could be wrong, but that?s just a mere prediction I?m making now.</div>
Well the thing is, you need some sort of argument behind those predictions. With the "second coming of Robinson" statements, people are basing it around their similar games and his potential. It at least has some validity because of that reasoning. As a prospect, he's much more promising than Bosh or Amare were at this stage. He's more developed, has a better frame, and has produced more at this stage. So, while there's nothing wrong with predicting that he won't be as good as those players, or that there's no way he'll be a HOFer, you need to provide some sort of explanation. Otherwise that prediction is as arbitrary and pointless as that dude saying he'll be better than Ewing.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Fast Luck Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Mmm.. good three point defense doesn't make a team shoot 4-23, no matter how good that three point defense is. I'm sure they caused some of that, but OSU was also missing open looks. Also, I think a lot of people here really don't like Florida's basketball team, but I don't have a problem with them, and think they definitely were the beast team the last two years. </div>

Yeah, but it's not just coincidence when the majority of teams shoot a crappy 3 point percentage against the Gators. They shot 7-23 against the Gators in the first meeting, which adds up to 11-46 24% in both games.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Good riddance to Richard though, I really think that guy is a just plain crappy person after he elbowed an Ohio State player for no reason during a time out in the first game this season.</div>

I don't remember the elbow honestly. I'm sure it wasn't that bad, that just doesn't seem like something he would do. He normally conducts himself very good on and off the court. From what I hear Richard is one of the classiest and nicest players on the team. We never really had a problem with Richard throughout his Gator career. I hope he can go the Udonis Haslem path and make it to the NBA one day. I couldn't be happier for him and Humphrey honestly.

<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Is Noah going pro? God, he's so f'n ugly. </div>

Not sure on that yet. I could definitely see him and Taureen both staying for another year, although this year was extremely tough on Jo with all the taunting and the higher expectations from him. I doubt Brewer or Horford come back, both are pretty much Top 10 locks now, but Noah and Green could both still improve.

 

I'm really happy for the Gators, I do believe they are the better team, they certainly were Monday night. I actually missed the game because I was on an airplane.

 

I just remembered this post, here we go....

<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You and 99% of America.</div>

It feels great to be hated by everyone. It's tough to watch a school dominate the way this school has.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Florida fans are the most obnoxious fans on the face of the earth. They feel entitled to so much respect after having two good seasons, whereas there are teams out there who have been playing this caliber of ball since the 1950's against better competition and don't get the same respect.</div>

We are in an elite crowd of teams that have won back to backs. I won't disagree that Florida fans are the most obnoxious, because I know we are from personal experiences. Ohio State has to be
2nd(since they can't get first over Florida in anything. ) I've never said we are an elite program and deserve to be mentioned in with the UCLA's, UNC's, etc, but we are well on our way.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not only that, but the players are obnoxious as well, celebrating after every single play, be it a layup or a dunk, and they play a soft schedule all season long before they reach the tournament.</div>

Yeah playing 2 Sweet 16 teams twice(who lost by a combined 3 points), 1 Elite 8, and 1 championship game opponent during the season makes it cupcake. I thought teams that played "crappy" schedules were supposed to get exposed in the tournament. Obviously Florida didn't.

I don't care what you say about Noah, Brewer, and Horford(since those are the 3 that celebrate), but they can celebrate any time they like in my eyes considering what they have accomplished on the collegiate level. It pumps the crowd up and it pumps up the entire team. I can see why you hate it, but your hate is what fuels these guys.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, it's hard to like hicks from the Sorry Educational Conference.</div>

Very mature Voodoo. Stop crying because your beloved Big 10 has been garbage in the tourney the last 2 years. 1 team in the Sweet 16 in 2 years, what a power conference. (roll eyes) Not to mention your conference can't even count since they have 11 teams. Just to let you know, Florida and Vandy are 2 very good academic institutions, so we aren't all that dumb.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't worry though. This title will put them in the class with Syracuse, Maryland, etc. and a bunch of C-level legacy teams, not in the same class as Indiana, UCLA, Duke, Kentucky, Michigan State, North Carolina, UConn, Arizona, etc. and all of the historically "elite" teams, so after a year or two, you won't be hearing anything more from this club.</div>

We WILL be the team of the 00 decade. That puts us in elite company. Sure we haven't been doing it for as long as the other schools, but Florida is currently a powerhouse in college basketball right now. That's all Florida fans want to hear.

Hate on the Gators as much as you want, it fuels our programs. It just makes us feel better that everyone wishes they were at our level. It's great to be a Florida Gator!

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yesterday on the radio, Bill Walton said they told him, if one decides to comeback they will all comeback.</div>

I think it's all on the shoulders of Corey Brewer. If Brewer comes back, everyone will come back. If he leaves I bet Al follows and possibly Noah/Green. Last year Brewer coming back is what got everyone to come back. Noah said he would feel like a total ass if he left when Brewer who needs the support came back. I don't blame Corey for leaving(if he decides to), his dad is in hard times and likely won't make it much longer. Not to mention that I doubt his stock gets any higher. Although around campus he seems to be the guy that is having the most fun out of everyone, so who knows.

 

<div class="quote_poster">GatorsowntheNCAA Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It feels great to be hated by everyone. It's tough to watch a school dominate the way this school has. </div>

No, I explained why everyone hates the Gators. It has nothing to do with the winning but rather the lack of class. Duke has dominated college basketball, yet a large part of America still loves them. Why? Because their players are humble, they're an amazing academic institution, and they always exhibit class. Florida's an in-your-face SEC school that's got a history of classlessness. America hates that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah playing 2 Sweet 16 teams twice(who lost by a combined 3 points), 1 Elite 8, and 1 championship game opponent during the season makes it cupcake. I thought teams that played "crappy" schedules were supposed to get exposed in the tournament. Obviously Florida didn't. </div>

Florida's non-conference schedule:

- You played Kansas, and you lost.
- You played Ohio State at home, when they didn't have Oden worked into the offense.

Then you played:

Samford
North Florida
Jacksonville
UT-Chatt
PV A&M
W Kentucky
Southern
at Florida St --- First true road game of the year, and you lost to the NIT-bound Seminoles.
Providence
at Florida A&M
Stetson
UAB --- UAB (15-16) led this game with two minutes left.
Liberty

Yeah, that's an amazing schedule.

Compare that to some of the team's Arizona played: @ Virginia, New Mexico St., UNLV, Illinois, @ Louisville, @ SDSU, Memphis, and then play in the Pac-10, a conference exponentially greater than the SEC.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Very mature Voodoo. Stop crying because your beloved Big 10 has been garbage in the tourney the last 2 years. 1 team in the Sweet 16 in 2 years, what a power conference. (roll eyes) Not to mention your conference can't even count since they have 11 teams. Just to let you know, Florida and Vandy are 2 very good academic institutions, so we aren't all that dumb. </div>

(You see, you don't have to type out "rolleyes." There's a smilie for it.

Well, it's certainly not immature. Certain conferences has nicknames. The Big 10, for example, is called the Big 11, because there are eleven teams in the conference yet they still have the number '10' in their name. The SEC, on the other hand, is called the Sorry Educational Conference, because that's what it is, the sorriest of any major conference academically.

The Big Ten is probably the best major conference academically with Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Penn State being better than every single SEC university outside of Vandy, the great anomaly. The only other conference that compares is the ACC.

Is Vandy a hell of an academic institution? Sure, maybe not on Northwestern's level, but it's becoming more reputable as the year's pass. Do you have any idea what the admissions requirements are at any of the other schools though? I have a brother who's at Ole Miss who didn't even graduate from high school. It's not "hating;" it's the truth. The SEC is weak academically, and that's why they got that nickname. I'm not the one who made it up. I'm not that clever.

As for basketball, the Big Ten has had two atypically bad years, but historically, they're arguably the best conference in college basketball history. The SEC only boasts three NCAA title winners, despite having more teams than most conferences, and only one of those title winners, Kentucky, has a legitimate legacy.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hate on the Gators as much as you want, it fuels our programs. It just makes us feel better that everyone wishes they were at our level. It's great to be a Florida Gator!</div>

It's not hate, bro'. I called the Gators winning this one once it got to the elite eight or so. Go back and look at the polls, because I voted for Florida every single time.

I also respect you as an intellectual and a poster. And yes, a lot of my posting on the topic is spurred on by jealousy, but at the end of the day, the things that inspire those emotions in me more than anything are the obnoxiousness of the Gator players, the way the national media overrates them, and the general arrogance of their fans. You had two great postseasons. That does not put you on the same level as all the other legacies, nor does it mean that Florida is going to dominate the NCAA in the years to come. If anything, they won't even be ranked at season's end next year. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, because I know you've never said these words, but I'm rather paraphrasing the national media and the average Gators fan on those statements.