Chemistry renewed.

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by KingSpeed, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I didn't call you names, I said you've got an act. that is to say I'm fairly certain that you are not an idiot, but you play one in order to illicit a response.

    As for who you would have thrown the ball into at the end of games it's impossible to answer because Brandon is the one taking that shot.
     
  2. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    where are these stats coming from? Link please
     
  3. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    You called me the "Villiage Idiot." Sorry but that is name calling.

    As for your second statement. Yes, Roy is our first option but let's say Roy fouls out or misses a game. Who do you go to in the post? LMA or Oden?
     
  4. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    They were already posted here with a link. I do not have it on me though. Roy and Blake have each had 13 assists to Oden. Miller has had 7. Anyone who watches all the games knows this already though. Hell, look at the last time we played Minnesota. Blake had FOUR assists to Oden in the third quarter. In one quarter! Miller has had only 7 all season!
     
  5. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    I need to see it for myself or have someone else corroborate your story.
     
  6. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    We're quibbling over semantics, but I will say one thing, I probably crossed a line, so you have my apology for that.

    But back to basketball, you almost never see a big man for any team take the last shot because they typically can't handle the ball well enough in isolation plays to beat a man off the dribble and almost certainly will be double or triple teamed so the point is mostly moot. The only bigs that I can recall ever seeing as a go to scorer at the end of a game consistently is Dirk in the past ten years.
     
  7. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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  8. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Excellent. We're back to basketball talk, but I respectfully disagree with you. Duncan has been a very effective player to go to at the end of games in the last 10 years. Also, Rasheed Wallace, Yao Ming (esp since he hits his free throws), and Kevin Garnett.
     
  9. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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  10. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Nate's the guy who said Nate didn't want to incorporate Oden into the offense. Can't blame us.

    And your bolded premise (like many others you try to base off of pseudo-stats) is faulty.

    Greg has 92 FGs this year. 18 of those are dunks. 76% of those are assisted. So 14 of his dunks were assisted. Tips account for 12% of his 92 FGs, or 10 FGs.

    So the stats show that, even if all of Oden's dunks were assisted by Roy/Blake (which they're not), and if all of his "tips" were putbacks, it would still only account for 28 of his 92 FGs, which at 30% doesn't qualify as "most" of anything. In fact, that's the exact same number as his "unassisted close shots", which is a pretty close phrase to "Greg's own post move". Combined with the stat (fact?) that 57% of his FGs come from other than tips, dunks and jump shots--you're just simply way off base with this premise.
     
  11. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    4 of those were by Blake in the third quarter of the Minnesota game.
     
  12. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Okay.
     
  13. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    So in the other 20 games, he's passed the ball 9 times to Greg in position to get a score? One time, every two games, our starting PG passes the ball to our starting C in a position to score? What are we talking about here?
     
  14. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Look, my intention is not to say that Blake needs to be shot or something. My intention is to refute using stats, observations and analysis the premise that I presume you are advancing: that Blake is just fine in the 30+ mpg role Nate's defined for him as our starting PG. (please correct me if this isn't what you're trying to say) I don't think Blake's doing fine; I think that it's admirable that he's attempting to pass it in to the center as much or more than anyone else, but that it was nowhere close to enough; I think that his sub-10 PER with a lack of other redeeming non-PER qualities is anathema to a starter getting 30+ mpg; and I think that the sooner his role is reduced the better our team will play.

    Obviously, that's not necessarily the most popular viewpoint, so I attempt to back up my analysis/opinions with statistics and observation. But one of my failings as a human is a drive I have to attempt to refute faulty reasoning as it differs with my carefully examined opinions. And since I generally admit when wrong and biased, it's odd to me when others don't.
    :cheers:
     
  15. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Blake did it better than anyone else on the team. I firmly believe that Blake could do it more if he was given the ball. When we give the ball to Blake and ask him to create, he is very effective. Look at that Clippers game last season. We gave him the ball and he orchestrated an NBA record masterpiece. Magic never did it. Stockton never did it. Paul has never done it. Blake sacrifices a lot for this team and he has said so in interviews. I'm having trouble finding links but I know he has said it.
     
  16. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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  17. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    When you find them, I'd like to see them, please. I can't ever remember Blake saying that. But I could be wrong.

    Blake averages 30 mpg. He hasn't had a single game below 20 minutes. He's been the starting PG every single game we've played. Since Oden went down, he's averaged 38.5 mpg. How much more does he need to qualify for the "given the ball" in your eyes? While he's messed up multiple fast breaks, do you think that he just needs to keep doing it? Or be replaced by someone better at it (since that is an admitted strategy of the head coach, you'd think so).

    I remember that Clippers game. I was there. I won't go into the aspect of poor stat-keeping (I have a lot of experience in that), but I will say that the rest of the game he had an average of 1 assist per quarter. Did he just forget to pass? Same with the Golden Minny Quarter you keep bringing up. If he got 4 assists to Oden in a quarter, why was the rest of the year an average of 1 assist to him every two games?
     
  18. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    That's better than Miller did.
     
  19. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    I remember that Clippers game. I was there. I won't go into the aspect of poor stat-keeping (I have a lot of experience in that), but I will say that the rest of the game he had an average of 1 assist per quarter. [/QUOTE]

    Did you just criticize Blake for not getting 56 assists in that game?
     
  20. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Maybe you can help me with this one. I'll just compare Miller and Blake, since they're the top two on that chart you showed the link to.

    Player Min +/- Off Def Net48 W L Win%
    Miller 55% +97 1.11 1.02 +7.8 12 10 54.5
    Blake 60% +94 1.11 1.03 +7.0 15 6 71.4

    So Miller and Blake play roughly the same amount of minutes, so this isn't a "sample size" issue. Miller has a slightly better +/- in less minutes. The offensive efficiency is the same, but Blake's defensive efficiency is worse than Miller's. Miller has a higher differential per 48 minutes, but Blake wins 17% more of the time with those stats? How is that? There isn't a single factor that is quantified there that shows Blake's better in any part of the game than Blake, or that the team does better in any aspect with Blake rather than Miller.

    It's confusing to me. Which I why I wrote the email to 82games. They haven't responded. So I've taken to disregarding the WP%. But if you look at this page, specifically the "net production" column, you'll see that the only people on the team less productive than Blake are Przy and Howard. Every other player on the team was more productive with their minutes than Blake. That's one place where I draw my "we're better without him playing big minutes" argument from.
     

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