Clingan poll

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Jun 26, 2024.

?

How do you feel about getting Clingan

  1. Great pick!

    58 vote(s)
    55.2%
  2. Meh

    34 vote(s)
    32.4%
  3. NOOOOOO!!!!

    13 vote(s)
    12.4%
  1. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    7,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can you please name a single player that has deserved minutes since Cronin took over but didn't get them? I can't think of anyone - we've had about a dozen+ scrubs that are barely in the G League playing major minutes.
     
    Phatguysrule likes this.
  2. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    14,642
    Likes Received:
    13,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Marcos, CA
    Little thought for roster construction? Seems like all he does is balance the roster, he is just not going to do it over-night trying to abuse draft capital for quick fixes that never work as NeO did. I think anyone that called for balancing the roster, adding athletic ability and size - can see that this is exactly what he is doing. And yes, taking BPA and taking the time to develop them is the price of getting good sustainably given what he was given as a starting point.

    There are no silver bullets for small market teams, especially ones that do not have owners that are willing to wildly spend like drunken sailors. There is a reasonable way to do things, use the draft, trades when opportunity presents itself (like the recent Deni trade) and take your lumps as the young team grows. That's exactly what this FO has done. They have methodically balanced the roster (the roster had 4 6'3'' and under guards in prominent roles when JoeCro took over, only one of them somewhat willing to defend (NP), it now has 2 and one has defensive potential (Scoot). The roster he inherited had no starting level caliber forwards, this roster has 2. The roster he inherited had 1 drop coverage, one broken athletic center / forward, this roster has both an athletic center and now a drop coverage center.

    Clingan will get his chances as a rookie, if he deserves more time, it will come at the expense of some of the vets (be it DA or RW), if not, he will learn in practice or the Remix. There is enough time for him on this roster as he is the only rim protecting drop coverage big available...

    This team is much better balanced, it has more size, more athletic, but it is young, getting from a very poorly constructed roster to a balanced one has not been easy or quick and anyone that thought it would be - was fooling themselves. Dame and CJ's removal certainly meant the usable talent level fell, but the roster is clearly built to be a lot closer to what you need in the modern NBA. It just does not have the skill and experience required along with the talent to be effective, yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2024
    SharpesTriumph likes this.
  3. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    14,688
    Likes Received:
    12,519
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's what BPA means. You just draft the best player available and let the rest fall where it may.

    Having two very good centers would be a good problem to have.
     
    SharpesTriumph likes this.
  4. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    22,518
    Likes Received:
    34,307
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Investment Management / Financial Planner
    Location:
    Lake Oswego
    This is certainly some reason for concern. He's not just slower than many of the other centers, he was much slower and almost dead last.
     
    SharpesTriumph likes this.
  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    21,588
    Likes Received:
    33,576
    Trophy Points:
    113
    c'mon now kjiro, stop with the "bashing Scoot" strawman. That wasn't my intent and you know it. You talked up the assertion that the 'draft gurus' were saying Clingan was BPA at #7. Even more of them would have said that Scoot was BPA at #3 last year (many were saying he was BPA at #2) but that sure didn't turn out to be true. It's just guessing by everybody. Maybe Scoot will eventually end up as the 3rd best BPA in that draft, but he has a damn long way to go. Maybe Clingan will end up as the 7th best, or even hiher player in this draft...but I'm pretty skeptical

    meaning that BPA, IMO, is mostly a totally subjective and meaningless catch-phrase that can be used to justify any decision like this

    *****************************

    OKC: 6'5 Jalen Williams & 6'6 Kenrich Williams
    Den: Aaron Gordon & Peyton Watson
    Minny: Kat & Kyle Anderson & Naz Reid
    LAC: Paul George & Kobe Brown
    Dallas: PJ Washington & Derrick Jones
    Phx: Kevin Durant & Royce O'Neal & Josh Okogie
    Pels: Zion and Herbert Jones
    LAL: Lebron and Hachimura
    Sac: Harrison Barnes & Trey Lyles
    GS: Draymond and Kuminga
    Hou: Jabari Smith & Cam Whitmore
    Utah: Markkanen & Collins
    Memphis: Santi Aldama & GG Jackson
    Spurs: Jeremy Sochan & Cedi Osman

    all this talk about Portland trying to experiment with a poor-man's-twin-towers lineup made me curious about who was the starting/backup PF's for the other teams in the WC. You know, with the idea that Ayton will have to defend those guys if he's the PF. Except for maybe Minny, I'm seeing Ayton being at a significant mobility advantage against just about every PF he would be facing. When he wasn't being a turn-style for dribble-drives & slashes, he'll be out around the arc trying to guard against 3's when defensive rebounds are happening. Basically, him at PF, would exploit his weaknesses and detract from one of his strengths

    Now I know a counter to that is that Ayton could 'punish' those smaller players on the other end of the floor with his low-block-turnaround-jumper game. But the NBA is pretty good at negating those kinds of one-man games, especially when the low block player is like Ayton who has not demonstrated the savvy and court vision to pass out of traps and doubles.

    and where will Clingan be when Ayton is operating in the low block? 10-12 feet away on the other side of the key toe-tapping the paint? where his man can easily rotate to switch or trap or double Ayton?Essentially allowing opponents to clog the paint and make any Blazer dribble drives high-degree of difficulty against 2 rim protectors?

    I think the Ayton + Clingan thing is what makes me most skeptical about using 7 on Clingan. If Portland has a plan in place to move Ayton, then I can adjust my expectations about Clingan. But I don't think the Blazers do. I think their plan was to tank into this weak 2024 draft and turn around and waste next season trying to make the play-in while dropping down several lottery spots in the much better 2025 draft. And of course...don't pay any luxury tax
     
    MrDraftGuy likes this.
  6. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    7,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Would be curious to see him compared to Jokic/Nurkic/Meyers or others who were thought of as stiffs when they entered the league. I remember hearing how horrible Jokic diet was as a rookie and that eventually he greatly improved that and his fitness. Seem like Clingan is already a good worker, which is good in many ways, but kind of sucks in that he probably doesn't have any room to improve fitness or quickness, etc.
     
  7. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    7,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Markkanen, Draymond, Kat, and LeBron would be fine for Ayton to match up against, they aren't quick enough to easily go around him. All the others would be a major problem.
     
  8. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    7,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BPA is judged at the time of the draft; not in hindsight.

    It can be an oversimplification - as some players have higher floors, or lower ceilings, or are ready to contribute sooner, or more raw, etc.

    Another way I like to think of it is tiers, interesting enough where basically top couple tiers were completing empty in this weeks draft. But the idea you shouldn't ever grab a player from a lower tier as the Blazers did with Webster over CP3 because they had Telfair. Especially you shouldn't do that at the top of the lottery.
     
    Ed O likes this.
  9. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    10,681
    Likes Received:
    2,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    If you want to think that experts are not really experts, and/or that everyone is always just guessing... well, think what you want, but I think you're wrong. Some front offices seem to be correct more often than other front offices, and those differences are sometimes attributable to a person who then changes teams and has success there, too. Not that it's 100% accuracy, but there's skill involved that makes up for it beyond just luck IMO.

    Also, and more vociferously, I disagree with the part I bolded above. Scoot has only had one season in the NBA and it's too early to say that he was not the second-best player available... because "player" is actually "prospect", usually. Meaning the net present value of a guy, rather than what he'll do the first year in the league.

    If "best player available" meant "most ready to have a good first year", then you'd see a lot more older guys get drafted early. Instead, BPA has to do with best prospect independent of position.
     
  10. Mr. Robot

    Mr. Robot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    4,107
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that would be rudy gobert role, grabbing the rebounds, defending the rim & converting the lob passes

    im not saying thats the best role for him, im saying thats the role he will get
     
  11. Mr. Robot

    Mr. Robot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    4,107
    Trophy Points:
    113
    we dont need clingan to become an all-star (we expect & need that from scoot & sharpe), if he becomes the role player that protects the rim, grabs the rebounds & scores efficiently on offense, the pick will be worthy
     
  12. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,722
    Likes Received:
    20,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If this is your point simply say it but add "In My Opinion" at the end.

    No need for any of the rest of that because absolutely none of it changes the fact that he was widely considered the BPA with the 7th pick.

    Exactly.

    This is what I'm talking about when I say "Smokescreen". The conversation isn't and never has to be about the #3 pick or Scoot Henderson. It's about who was considered the BPA at the time the Blazers were on the clock for the 7th pick in the 2024 draft. Nothing else.

    I will clarify my stance here. In My Opinion Clingan was the BPA at the time the Blazers were selecting.
     
    Ed O likes this.
  13. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,722
    Likes Received:
    20,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is certainly the way I understand it.
     
  14. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    14,642
    Likes Received:
    13,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Marcos, CA
    Of course. It is meant as a differentiation between drafting for (positional) need vs. drafting for potential. Of course, potential is in the eye of the beholder, so whoever made the selection is the one who has the prospects ranked and determines the BPA at that point.

    Some people will take BPA literally, after the fact, but that's not what it is meant to convey. Maybe it should be BPAATTDDMATOD for these people...

    Best Player Available According To The Draft Decision Maker At Time Of Draft.
     
  15. Whyachi

    Whyachi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2023
    Messages:
    7,096
    Likes Received:
    3,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Clingan interview on the Quentin & Darius pod

     
    Paine Tablet likes this.
  16. TYDame

    TYDame Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2023
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    511
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Please Donovan, don’t be a Meyers Leonard or Soft Beast Nurkic. As the late Bill Walton would say: Throw It Down Big Man
     
    kjironman1 likes this.
  17. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    14,457
    Likes Received:
    15,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This dude goes strong to the basket, that's all there is to it. He will block a ton of shots, he will get a ton of rebounds on both ends of the court and he will dunk it. What he won't do is switch defensively or defend the three point line.
     
    Pinwheel1 likes this.
  18. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    38,904
    Likes Received:
    23,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Now post Rudy Gobert's numbers
     
  19. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    7,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
  20. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    7,619
    Trophy Points:
    113

Share This Page