They still broke international crimes, admitted so, which Clinton probably agreed with (I'll look that up still). But then again, not everyone can be Al Gore's employee I suppose. Diplomatically, does this force our nation to kind of give N. Korea a little more leeway when they are pointing their missles at Hawaii now? perhaps.
You mean like Bill Clinton? I'm interested in how N. Korea is using Clinton to drum up sympathy in the world policital arena now.....
I was just talking to my wife and her mom about this (both English) and they had a huge trip down memory lane about "the troubles" with Northern Ireland. They spoke pretty glowingly of the work Clinton did to defuse the problem and create a lasting peace. I don't think most Americans give him much credit for that.... Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of Maureen Dowd, but she sometimes rips off a fantastic paragraph or two before devolving too far into political pop psychologist. Here's a nice gem: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/opinion/05dowd.html?em
I don't think anyone is denying that they broke "international crimes," but the point isn't that they broke the law but that they were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor in what is essentially a gulag for not having a visa in what was widely considered to be a sham trial by a dictatorial government. But I guess that's all propaganda. What the fuck are you talking about? Unless Clinton basically said, "we will give you more leeway (in what regard, exactly?) when you're pointing your missiles at Hawaii," then I would say no. I'm sure a concession had to be made, but I doubt it was anything along the lines of "go ahead and point that shit at us." Besides, I'm sure Kim was thrilled to have Clinton show up at his doorstep when he's searching for international legitimacy.
It was a little more than "not having a Visa". They were filming footage to be used against the North Korean government within their own country, a crime apparantly quite serious. Its similar to an Al Queda operative sneaking into this country to film propoganda to be used for terrorist training camps (at least in the views of North Korea)....oh wait, we'd just let them go with a slap on the wrist..... They are Al Gore's employees. They work for Current TV, Al Gore's TV channel. If you don't think that Clinton is being used as propaganda to distract from many of North Korea's many issues (human rights, nuclear, etc), then I don't think any further discussion would be productive. As you stated, Kim is using Clinton for international legitimacy. Next time the US tries to do any sanctions, they'll just waive this shit in our face....which is why it was "unofficial" and "private" (although the uses of Clinton's image will still be valuable for N. Korea)
I don'y know if I;d call the Bush administration "corrupt" as much as I would "deceptive". To me, there's a difference- and neither is any better than the other.
They didn't even get into North Korea. In fact, some reports suggest that the North Koreans actually stepped into China to arrest them. And oh, I didn't know Current TV was popular in North Korea Nice use of a totally off base comparison in order to meet your three mandatory unsubtle digs at the Obama administration per post. I did not know that. By this repeated comment, I'm assuming you're implying that had they been employees of CNN then they would still be doing hard labor in a North Korean prison, where they belong. Although I'm willing to bet if they weren't working for Al Gore, then you wouldn't have started the thread wherein you call them propagandists and make fun of their ethnicities. I never came close to implying that I thought that. Again, we don't know the details of the compromise. So, your claim that they will "waive this shit in our face" is totally baseless. Clinton is back. The journalists, ahem, propaganda gathering employees of Al Gore are back. They have nothing to go on unless we gave them a free crazy card, which I highly doubt. All they really get is the use of Clinton's image, as we've both mentioned, and that is only useful to their own people. The world still knows Kim Jong Il is crazy.
Yes, they were just shooting a documentary news piece on North Korea, on the North Korean border..but didn't even go into North Korea..the decided to do it in China...right......why not do it in China town then? Much cheaper and they would have the asian people as back drop. And compromise or no compromise, North Korea is using this as an opportunity to garner sympathy for their own gains. They are using Clinton as propoganda, otherwise they wouldn't pose with him and take those photos.
Do you even read posts ? As I said earlier "in this case they may have actually entered"...However, again, you can't just automatically take a confession at face value in totalitarian governments. Clinton probably would have juggled saucers while admitted to bombing west Detroit to get them out because it means nothing. The international community knows what a sham N. Korea is to begin with and the only value that play will get is inside N. Korea itself. Perhaps you need to go take some classes in international politics...
Sure it means something. He posed there with the leaders...this all has some sort of Value for North Korea even though the reporters didn't. This entire situation appears to be a win-win from them. Its likely that any reporting by these two "reporters" about the humanitarian problems in North Korea will now be compromised and biased. North Korea wins because it squashes the story, they look less evil.
Because the news piece was about human trafficking on the North Korean/Chinese border. That's right, it may surprise you to learn that they share a border. There are conflicting reports on whether or not they ever actually crossed the Tumen river. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_imprisonment_of_American_journalists_by_North_Korea I have to agree with this.
all that matters is that they were copped. perhaps they are trumped up charges, only the reporters (who will not say if they were I bet) and North Korea would know for sure.
You guys take the cake. 2 Americans are held hostage by a nut in North Korea, the Obama administration and Bill Clinton get them out safely, you you still find something to bitch about. UnAmerican, that's what you are.
I don't see that Obama had anything to do with it. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99SSVU80&show_article=1 Wealthy Hollywood producer paid for NKorea flight WASHINGTON (AP) - A wealthy Hollywood producer paid for the flight that carried former President Bill Clinton and two American journalists home from North Korea, a California businessman confirmed Wednesday. Stephen Bing, a close Clinton friend and longtime Democratic fundraiser, is the plane's owner, said Marc Foulkrod of Burbank, Calif., chairman of Avjet Corp., the company that manages the aircraft. Foulkrod said the Federal Aviation Administration "at the highest levels" cleared the flight plan, which required an exception because U.S. planes are not allowed to fly into North Korea. The effort to set up and clear the flight only started four to five days ago, he said, adding that officials in Washington worked through the weekend to get the necessary diplomatic and flight exemptions. Heir to a New York real estate fortune, Bing raised at least $100,000 for Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign, in addition to giving the maximum $2,300. He also donated at least $10 million to Bill Clinton's presidential library and charitable foundation. Bing was a multimillion-dollar donor to pro-Democratic groups that ran ads against Republican President George W. Bush in the 2004 campaign. He also donated at least $5 million to pay for a new Democratic National Committee headquarters in 2002, when Clinton loyalist Terry McAuliffe headed the party. Bing contributed $40.1 million of the total $45.7 million raised to support a failed 2006 California ballot initiative that sought to tax companies drilling for oil in California. Bing's contributions were funneled through his Shangri-La Entertainment company. Bing produced "Shine A Light," a 2008 Martin Scorcese documentary of a Rolling Stones performance filmed at Bill Clinton's 60th birthday party in New York. He also produced the film "Beowulf" (2007) and financed the film "The Polar Express" (2004). Calls to Shangri-la Entertainment and Bing's publicist were not immediately returned. Foulkrod said the costs for the flight have not yet been tallied but would be significant. "It was a very unique set of organizational efforts that resulted in a level of cooperation that was unprecedented," Foulkrod told The Associated Press. The plane flew from Burbank to Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska, then to Misawa Air Base in Japan_ refueling in both places_ and then went on to North Korea, said Foulkrod. On the way back it had enough fuel to skip Elmendorf, flying from Misawa directly to Burbank.
again, held hostage how? they illegally entered North Korea and were tried in the courts. find any credible evidence that they were "held hostage".
