OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting

My observation anymore since there doesn't appear to be any give and take or compromise, just bash the other side, is it not about the issues really but what team you are on and kids are learning this. Classic tribalism

 

I am finding it hard to compromise with or understand antivaxxers. It looked like pandemic was winding down, but thanks to Covidiots it is raging. Encouraged by a major political party and a host of media outlets all outdoing one another to make people sick.

 

Great! Now those kids all get to look forward to shingles! Good times!

 

Agreed.

Glad you can admit to being part of the problem here - and participating in tribalism.

The vaccines are great at significantly reducing the SYMPTOMS - but that is an entirely different discussion.

The notion that we are in this position because of the "antivaxers" is moronic at best. Based on the latest data that I've seen, it does not appear that vaccines significantly reduce TRANSMISSION and/or spread of the virus. So even if everyone were to be 100% vaxed, the virus would still spread (maybe not quite as fast - but it would still spread).

There has to be some level of cognitive dissonance to place all the blame on the "conservatives" (tribalism at it's finest). There are lots of different groups of people (cultural, ethnic, etc.) who are apprehensive to getting the vaccine. A lot people in the poorer inner city areas are rejecting the vaccine.

 

Except it really is about the issues for some of us. And we're sick of assholes posting dangerous bullshit which idiots are believing, keeping us in a perpetual state of reduced freedom and heightened danger due to overwhelmes hospitals.

 

I'm sorry but that's bullshit.

Vaccinated people are 80% protected from Delta. If the spread were reduced by 80% we wouldn't be seeing spread at epidemic rates.

 

My huge family is made up of multi race, different political affiliations and some religious and some not. And some that have not decided for the vax of which I disagree with but there zero way I would condemn or ridicule these people I happen to disagree with. In fact I have great love and compassion for them all and we are able to discuss our different positions on things without lashing out or taking sides against. I have conversations with several in my fam about the importance of being vaccinated and a few have changed their thinking. This isnt about ideologically or even politics. Its about being respectful and listening and looking for opportunities to help.

 

It is for me as well.

 

I'm sorry, last I checked, this was still America damnit.

 

I think that there are a couple of problems in what you said in this post. First, while it’s true that the delta variant has changed things and that vaccinated people who get Covid can carry as high of a load of virus as unvaccinated people, they make up a smaller percentage of current infections than the unvaccinated do. Second, some studies are showing that the immune system kicks in pretty quickly and cuts the viral load much faster in vaccinated people than in the unvaccinated. The main driver of new infections is clearly the unvaccinated population. That said, I agree with your broader point that demonizing the unvaccinated isn’t helpful.

 

If the vaccine was that effective at reducing transmission, then why would Israel see such a wide spread of the virus when they have vaccinated 78% of it's population (12+)?

There are two issues here. 1) Symptoms and 2) Transmission.

The FDA emergency approvals for the vaccines indicated that they are effective in reducing the symptoms. They made no claim as to the ability of the vaccine to reduce transmission (because they didn't know). Here is a link from May. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...fizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use

Too many people are conflating the two issues here. Based on field evidence, the vaccine is effective to reduce the symptoms - much less so in reducing the transmission.

 

Reasonable counter points...

I'm not sure we have the data to confidently say that the vaxed make up a smaller percentage than the unvaxed. If all our data is coming from 'self reporting' when you go get tested - that may skew the numbers significantly if the vaxed have either mild cases or are asymptomatic (and therefore decide not to get tested). Early on - there was discussion about testing at the wastewater treatment plant to help determine the concentration of the virus in the community. Ideally, there would be more macro type data available to help confirm/disprove the assumption.

If you have a link, I'd be interested to see some of the studies that you are referencing here.

 

I do find it ironic to be called moronic by someone who says my impatience with antivaxxers makes me part of the problem.