OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting

Haven't really looked into this but it raises some possibilities and questions about the virus;

Severity of COVID-19 may depend on where you're located on the map, new study suggests

https://www.accuweather.com/en/heal...epend-on-where-yourelocated-on-the-map/734371

 

Another sports message board I visit has a Covid thread.

I've gotten tired of hearing more and more people say that we need to accept that people are going to have to die because restarting the economy is the priority now. I reject that notion.

I understand the statistics and the fears. However, like Warren Buffett (among others), I don't see how a country with our resources, that has accomplished so much, can seriously be accepting that we have to put people at risk to restart the economy right now or else the country is going to fall apart beyond repair.

Like I said, I got tired and posted that we shouldn't be talking about this. The economy isn't stopped. "Essential" businesses are open, and what is considered essential is pretty loose ... there are a lot of businesses in my state that one wouldn't think are essential to life that are open and doing brisk business.

I said we keep the status quo for a time until testing becomes reliable and accessible. Essentially, we hit the pause button on the economy or opening the economy up completely until we can make people feel safe actually going out and making use of it, because, if we don't, if we reopen and deaths spike, people aren't going to feel confident going out and spending money anyway, and that will do more damage along with losing or ruining hundreds of thousands of lives.

I wrote that we have the resources to implement a UBI/stimulus and offer more small-business loans for what I estimate would be a few months until we can get testing to a level where we could isolate most of the infected, keep people somewhat safe, and rebuild public confidence. I also suggested that a moratorium on payments for things like rent, mortgage, and loans during that period, as well as a reduced rate for utilities would keep people from feeling stressed and that they had to get back working, in addition to letting their stimulus money help buoy the economy during that interval. I suggested slightly larger UBI for "essential" workers.

I was fired up and unfortunately my "F THE ECONOMY" line probably was not the wisest choice of words. However, I thought the rest of the what I wrote was at least worthy of debate/discussion.

Anyway, I didn't get any engagement on the ideas, just a lot of "You're insane," "You can't do that," "You're an entitled brat," "You're a socialist," and "You're too stupid for me to respond to."

So I'll toss it out here. Is my suggestion impossible or unreasonable and, if so, why? It just seemed to me that people are accepting the idea of economic collapse is inevitable if we don't reopen right now (or maybe using that idea as a rationale to get back to their routines), and that the economy is more important than health and well-being but no one can or wants to try to explain the reason to me.

 

This might be one reason why people are concerned about the economy:

https://usafacts.org/visualizations...ZRa_3MbbJ6TKoy110v3Qw5U19ukk5OuhoC2IYQAvD_BwE


This might be yet another reason for concern:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/busi...-closing-sales-delaying-bankruptcy/index.html

This might be yet another reason for concern, and keep in mind, the corona stimulus I do not believe has been added to this years deficit.


https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-budget-deficit-3305783




How, with all these things, can anyone not have legit concerns about the long term economical fall out?

And my last question is... Do you think this will create an increased number of population living in poverty and if so, how much of an increase?

 

I believe, at least from reporting, that states re-opening are not opening without restrictions or social distancing guidelines. And there is evidence (NY) that more than 60% of the hospitalizations from covid were from people that have stayed in home and do not have essential jobs. That questions the validity of mitigation actually slowing the spread of hospitalizations.

The entire premise of stay at home was to slow the spread so hospitals aren’t overrun with covid patients. The states opening have policies in place that they have the necessary beds and testing needed to mitigate spikes. The guidelines can move up or down a phase, depending on the results. That is a logical way of opening the country back up again.

 

I agree with the 3 phase plan with respect to getting things open, which I believe supports much of your concerns. I also want to be proactive in area's that, aren't as affected as others. But emphasis on hot spots and where the vulnerable are, like senior homes. Now that much as been learned regarding the virus and what is needed to stay on top of it, I think we can get through the certain gates for whichever phase.
Ive listened to many different doctor takes on all this and many do have concerns about the toll that a total lock down has on other mortality issues as cancer treatments, other surgeries, and mental health issues, plus the economic fall out of certain medical professions as well, doctors going out of business. I think we can work on both medical and economic impacts at the same time and it's not a one shoe size that fits all.

 

The administration put forth a 3 phase guideline in reopening the country and not a single state has even met phase one yet they are opening and the feds (trump) have done nothing to try and control the premature reopenings and instead encourages it. Why have a task force and the CDC put out reopening guidelines if nobody is going to adhere to it? Another epic fail by this administration.

 

One other thing that has bothered me allot is sending infected or recovered seniors back to nursing homes of which they came, I realize there is monetary issues here, but its crazy and its being done and thats why so many nursing homes represent a large percentage of deaths, in Oregon its over 50%. I though the whole idea about the military setting up hospitals and bringing ships was to isolate some of the seniors that were hit with the virus. Very sad and inexcusable, imo.

 

I agree with this as well. Already, in the state of California, different counties are approaching the opening guidelines in different phases.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/coronavirus-updates.amp.html

Coronavirus Live Updates: White House Rejected C.D.C. Reopening Guidelines, Asking for Revisions

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...uidance-coronavirus-reopen-america/index.html

Trump administration rejects CDC guidance on reopening US amid coronavirus

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply with something to actually discuss.

I'm not saying that there isn't a reason to be concerned over the economy. I don't believe that's what I said, and I apologize if it came off that way. I think actually being alive and being healthy supersede the economy, and that I don't think eliminating six figures of our population through death or disability is going to benefit the economy, either. I don't believe a few months of enduring a contracted economy in the interest of safety and health is a big price to pay for that. And I thought the things I suggested would keep individuals and small businesses afloat during the down turn, although, TBH, I live in Pennsylvania, where we've been shut down more than some states, and when I get to town once or twice a week, it seems about as busy as usual.

I checked the S&P before I posted this. It's down 10 percent this year, which isn't a lot considering what's been going on, to my way of thinking. I've read that

I guess I'm not a big believer in deficits being a huge issue. I follow a Keynesian approach. In addition, seeing how little regard our government has had to operating at a deficit and that we (and I believe most other countries) have been in debt for almost our entire history, that's not a big concern to me. It certainly isn't enough to override my concerns over people dying or becoming disabled.

Our country has money. Our government chooses to continue to lower taxes on those who benefit the most from what the United States has to offer (IMO) and who can most afford to contribute more, like we did in the 1950s and 60s. We had more than 600 billionaires in our country last year and 100 businesses made at least a billion in revenue.

Bankruptcies are concerning, except, in a lot of cases, many of the employees stay on and wind up becoming creditors or the company. When the economy comes back on, there still will be a need for what that company offered, meaning, to my way of thinking, either that business probably would return or another business offering a similar service would replace it.

I guess I think jobs are easier to replace than one's health or life. I think jobs return, but you can't resurrect people or heal their disability.

Thanks for actually engaging me on this.

 

There breaking news about one of Trump's personal valets who has tested positive for covid-19...Trump is said to be pissed.

One of Trump's personal valets has tested positive for coronavirus

A member of the US Navy who serves as one of President Donald Trump's personal valets has tested positive for coronavirus, CNN has learned Thursday, raising concerns about the President's possible exposure to the virus.

The valets are members of an elite military unit dedicated to the White House and often work very close to the President and first family. Trump was upset when he was informed Wednesday that the valet had tested positive, a source told CNN, and he was subsequently tested again by the White House physician.
In a statement, the White House confirmed CNN's reporting that one of the President's valets had tested positive.
"We were recently notified by the White House Medical Unit that a member of the United States Military, who works on the White House campus, has tested positive for Coronavirus," deputy White House press secretary Hogan Gidley said in a statement. "The President and the Vice President have since tested negative for the virus and they remain in great health."
A White House source said the valet, a man who has not been identified, exhibited "symptoms" Wednesday morning, and said the news that someone close to Trump had tested positive for coronavirus was "hitting the fan" in the West Wing.
Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and the senior staffers who regularly interact with them are still being tested weekly for coronavirus, two people familiar told CNN. The White House is continuing to use the rapid Abbott Labs test, which provide results in about 15 minutes. Several officials who have received the test said it's often administered in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, next door to the West Wing on the White House grounds. A medical official swabs the staffer's nostrils and informs them that they'll be notified within the next several minutes if it's positive.

 

Oregon appears to have implemented criteria for going through the gates and it appears to be working.
COVID-19 Weekly Report, May 5, 2020

Check out the case's by zip code.
I'd say we have as a State hit the 14 day decline in cases and hospitalizations. But certain area's are still more active than others and nursing homes represent over 50% of the deaths in this State.

 

I think that's fair, but there are a couple of things that I still question.

First, we haven't really been in a total lockdown, have we? Maybe it's different where you live, but in my part of the country, a lot of businesses have remained opened, being deemed essential, or found ways to continue operating through different methods, like curb-side pickup, delivery, take-out for food.

In my observation, a big issue is with people actually feeling safe, feeling comfortable, going out. Like the health treatments you mentioned ... in how many places has this been an issue because those treatments aren't available, and in how many is it that people are just afraid to go out and risk infection? If the latter is the case, opening the country fully without proper precautions isn't going to help either the consumers or the business-owners.

I agree that we can handle both at the same time; in fact, I think stabilizing the medical end actually benefits the economy because people need to feel comfortable, confident, and safe to go out and exchange money. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe we'll have a vaccine for this before next year. However, it seems to me that reliable and accessible testing in the next few months is a reasonable goal that would build that confidence and safety, because you can discover who has the virus and isolate them.

Maybe that's overly simplistic.

 

Yeah. And taking this a step further ... if you own a business or an apartment complex, you don't want to lose customers. It's better, IMO, to push back payments than to say if you don't pay by the 5th you have to leave ... you don't know under those conditions whether or not you will be able to replace them.

You go from having something to nothing.

My car insurance gave us a 50 percent cut in premiums for the foreseeable future. I think that's sensible. Their workers are in the same boat as the people that are paying their salaries.

I thought a moratorium on these things made so much sense. I've heard people discuss it, but not much of our leadership. I wondered if I was missing something.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/...virus-outbreak.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks
The coronavirus outbreak in New York City became the primary source of infections around the United States, researchers have found.
By Benedict Carey and James Glanz

• May 7, 2020Updated 8:36 a.m. ET

New York City’s coronavirus outbreak grew so large by early March that the city became the primary source of new infections in the United States, new research reveals, as thousands of infected people traveled from the city and seeded outbreaks around the country.

The research indicates that a wave of infections swept from New York City through much of the country before the city began setting social distancing limits to stop the growth. That helped to fuel outbreaks in Louisiana, Texas, Arizona and as far away as the West Coast.

The findings are drawn from geneticists’ tracking signature mutations of the virus, travel histories of infected people and models of the outbreak by infectious disease experts.

“We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country,” said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

“We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country,” said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

 

One issue with this ... people travel over these county borders. Opening businesses completely in a neighboring county without taking some reasonable precautions, like masks, for instance, seems to open the strong possibility that the infection could be brought right back there.

I don't know. I think we just have to be more consistent, because people are going to go where the opportunities are and they're going to take the infection with them.