OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Jan 3, 2020.

  1. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    SCOTUS’ late-night order in South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom divided the justices into two camps: those who acknowledge reality, and those who ignore it to score ideological points. The case began when a California church accused Gov. Gavin Newsom of violating its religious freedom. Newsom’s current COVID-19 policy limits attendance at houses of worship to 25 percent of building capacity or a maximum of 100 attendees, whichever is lower. At the same time, it allows certain secular businesses, like grocery stores, to operate under looser guidelines, allowing more people to enter. The church claimed this disparate treatment between churches and commercial establishments runs afoul of the First Amendment.


    As Roberts noted, however, California does not impose uniform rules on all places where people assemble. The state does strictly limit church attendance. But it applies “similar or more severe restrictions” to “lectures, concerts, movie showings, spectator sports, and theatrical performances.” So the question for the court is less constitutional than scientific: From an epidemiological perspective, are churches more like grocery stores or concerts? And that, the chief justice concluded, is a question for lawmakers, not federal judges.

    “The precise question of when restrictions on particular social activities should be lifted during the pandemic,” Roberts declared, “is a dynamic and fact-intensive matter subject to reasonable disagreement.” The Constitution leaves such decisions “to the politically accountable officials of the state,” whose decisions “should not be subject to second-guessing” by judges who lack “background, competence, and expertise to assess public health.” Multiple coronavirus outbreaks in California have been traced back to religious services. California has good reason to treat churches more like concerts—where people “congregate in large groups” and “remain in close proximity for extended periods”—than grocery stores, where they can social distance. For courts, that should be the end of the matter.


    Kavanaugh, in dissent, viewed the case through a different lens. Whereas Roberts began by noting that COVID-19 has “killed thousands of people in California and more than 100,000 nationwide,” Kavanaugh crafted a narrative of invidious religious discrimination. His dissent reads like a brief by the church, not a judicial opinion. Kavanaugh alleged that Newsom’s order “indisputably discriminates against religion” in violation of the free exercise clause. For support, the justice insisted that “comparable secular businesses,” like grocery stores and pharmacies, “are not subject” to the same restrictions imposed on churches. California must have a “compelling justification” for this disparate treatment, and he saw none.

    But Kavanaugh’s assertion that California treats churches and “comparable secular businesses” differently begs the question: what is a comparable secular business? When it comes to the spread of infectious disease, is a church really just like a grocery store, where people spend as little time as possible, separated by aisles and shopping carts, rarely speaking to one another? Or is it more like a concert, where people congregate for lengthy periods, shoulder to shoulder, often speaking or singing and thereby spreading droplets that may contain the coronavirus?


    What is genuinely shocking about Kavanaugh’s dissent is that he does not even address this question. The dispute lies at the heart of the case, and Kavanaugh ignores it. He simply takes it as a given that churches are “comparable” to grocery stores when it comes to risk of spreading COVID-19. By warping the facts, Kavanaugh paints California’s rules as irrationally discriminatory, when in fact they are based on medical advice Newsom has right now. If the justice wants to override public health measures during a pandemic, shouldn’t he at least admit that he’s substituting his own scientific judgment for that of a democratically elected lawmaker’s?

    Roberts seems to think so. His opinion ends with a clear swipe at Kavanaugh: “The notion that it is ‘indisputably clear’ that the Government’s limitations are unconstitutional,” the chief justice wrote, “seems quite improbable.” Roberts went out of his way to telegraph his displeasure with the raft of lawsuits contesting COVID-19 restrictions as unconstitutional burdens on religious liberty. Even in borderline cases, he suggested, courts must defer to the people’s representatives if they decide the health crisis requires limitations on public assemblies.

    While all four far-right justices dissented from Friday’s order, only Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch joined Kavanaugh’s dissent. Justice Samuel Alito declined to join Kavanaugh’s opinion and did not explain why. It’s possible Alito was so perturbed by his colleague’s deceptive recitation of the facts that he could not sign in good faith. Meanwhile, though the four liberals joined Roberts in turning away the church’s challenge, the chief justice wrote only for himself. His opinion reads like an official statement from the head of the judicial branch, reminding lower courts not to overstep constitutional boundaries when assessing COVID-19 orders. As long as Roberts has anything to say about it, the Supreme Court will not facilitate the spread of a deadly virus in the name of the First Amendment.
     
  2. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    As long as King Roberts has anything to say about it.
     
  3. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Under the Second Amendment, that would have been OK.
     
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  4. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    What did you disagree with in his opinion?
     
  5. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...probably-bots-report-2020-05-26?mod=home-page
    About half of the Twitter accounts calling for reopening America are bots: report

    Cybersecurity researchers warn that misinformation campaigns from convincing bots are fueling much of the social media debate about lifting coronavirus lockdowns and reopening the economy.

    A Carnegie Mellon University team analyzed more than 200 million tweets discussing coronavirus or COVID-19 since January. And they found that between 45% and 60% of them came from bots,


    What’s more, 82% of the top 50 most influential coronavirus/COVID-19 retweeters were bots, as were 62% of the top 1,000 retweeters, according to the report.
    The research team analyzed the hundreds of millions of tweets by using artificial intelligence and network analysis techniques to identify the accounts that were likely bots, such as looking at the number of followers, the frequency of tweeting and an account’s mentions network.

    “Tweeting more frequently than is humanly possible, or appearing to be in one country and then another a few hours later, is indicative of a bot,” Carley explained.

    maybe we shouldn't even believe our very own lying eyes after all.
     
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  6. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Social media is the devil.
     
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  7. ABM

    ABM Happily Married In Music City, USA!

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  8. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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  9. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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  10. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    I noticed poor countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Tunisia, Slovakia, that haven't a fraction of the resources the US has, with a variety of political systems, did so much better for the simple reason of putting science and social needs first.
     
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  11. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    My latest Corona virus creation. There was a hiatus when I realized I needed more yarn. Normally that takes a few days, but Knit Picks closed their warehouse for extra cleaning and with so many people crafting these days they were so backed up it took 3 weeks, during which time my next project got well under way.

    This can be worn as a sweater with jeans or a dress with tights and boots. Two problems: it's too hot for heavy alpaca sweater, and I'm not going anywhere. So this will live in a drawer for now with a branch of fresh bay leaves to keep moths away. IMG_20200531_080400.jpg IMG_20200531_080259.jpg
     
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  12. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Both political and science communities let us down badly. Trump is most assuredly the worst president I could think of for a time like this. On the other hand, the CDC totally screwed up testing and gave conflicting messages on face masks.
     
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  13. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Beautiful.
     
  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    well, the CDC has several trump appointee's in senior positions. Under Obama (and for decades before) the CDC was the premier public health institution in the world. The rest of the world looked to it for leadership. It was highly credible

    in 3 years under trump it's reputation has been completely trashed and has almost no credibility, nationally or around the world. Trump poisons everything he touches
     
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  15. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  16. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    As written by Donald J. Trump.....
     
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  17. calvin natt

    calvin natt Confeve

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    So good
     
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  18. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I’m referring to the screwup in basic science in the development of the initial test kits where one of the chemicals included in the kit didn’t work right. That set our testing ability back a month or two. It’s my understanding that development of our own testing kits has been CDC policy for years, so I don’t think management was to blame.
     
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  19. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    I didn't see where he could have clearly disagreed with Roberts' opinion. It seemed possible to me that HailBlazers could have just been having some fun with calling Roberts King Roberts. True, he should have been more clear.
     
  20. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Wrong, I am the Devil. I will lead you astray and you will like it. Muhahahahahaha.
     

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