<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (infinet @ Aug 4 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Aug 4 2008, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The legitimate national aspirations of the Uiyghur people should not be confused with terrorism. This was an attack on the Chinese military establishment and not civilians. The Chinese state has used the threat of terrorism to round up Uiyghur nationalists. And no one is coming to China. They live there.</div> Hey you broke the pattern in this thread and introduced logic and truth. How dare you. </div> I think someone has been watching a bit too much fox news. </div> Well i guess some of you didn't actually read the article: so i'll post it for you: with some comments Attackers in western China kill 16 border officers By CHARLES HUTZLER, Associated Press Writer Mon Aug 4, 9:43 AM ET BEIJING - Two men rammed a truck into a group of jogging policemen and tossed explosives, killing 16 officers Monday in an attack in a restive province of western China just days before the Beijing Olympics, the state-run Xinhua News Agency reported. Though it happened on the far side of the country — near the Afghan-Pakistan border — the attack came as security forces were on alert for the Games, which open Friday. It was among the deadliest and most brazen attacks in years in Xinjiang province, site of a sporadically violent rebellion by local Muslims against Chinese rule. About 20 people upset at having been evicted from their homes staged a brief demonstration near Tiananmen Square, Beijing's heavily guarded political center. Uniformed police quickly surrounded the group until members of a neighborhood committee came and pulled the protesters away, scuffling with some. In the Xinjiang attack, the two men drove a dump truck into the group of border patrol police officers as they passed the Yiquan Hotel during a routine 8 a.m. jog in the city of Kashgar, the Xinhua News Agency reported. After the truck hit an electrical pole, the pair jumped out, ignited homemade explosives and "also hacked the policemen with knives," Xinhua said. Fourteen died on the spot and two others en route to a hospital, and at least 16 officers were wounded, Xinhua said. Police arrested the two attackers, one of whom was injured in the leg, the report said. Authorities closed off streets, sealed the Nationalities Hospital down the street from the explosion, and ordered people to stay inside, said a man answering phones at the hospital duty office. Local government officials declined comment Monday. An officer in the district police department said an investigation was launched. Kashgar, or Kashi in Chinese, is a tourist city that was once an oasis trading center on the Silk Road caravan routes and lies 80 miles from the border with Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan. Its mountainous, remote environs have allegedly provided cover for terrorist training camps, one of which Chinese police raided early last year. interesting.... Chinese security forces have been on edge for months, citing a number of foiled plots by Muslim separatists and a series of bombings around China in the run-up to the Olympics. Last week, a senior military commander said radical Muslims who are fighting for what they call an independent East Turkistan in Xinjiang posed the single greatest threat to the games. I wonder why?? A spokesman for Beijing's Olympic organizing committee said he did not have enough information to comment on the bombings. But he said security arrangements were being increased around the Olympic venues. wonder why they are increasing it?? "We've made preparations for all possible threats," the spokesman, Sun Weide, told reporters. "We believe, with the support of the government, with the help of the international community, we have the confidence and the ability to host a safe and secure Olympic Games." A Chinese counterterrorism expert, Li Wei of the China Institute for Contemporary International Relations in Beijing, said the attack was likely the work of local sympathizers, rather than trained terrorists who sneaked across the border into China. i thought someone said they didn't sneak across the border, that they lived here?? Xinhua said that Xinjiang's police department earlier received intelligence reports about possible terrorist attacks between Aug. 1 and 8 by the East Turkistan Islamic Movement. The movement is the name of a group that China and the U.S. say is a terrorist organization, but Chinese authorities often use the label for a broad number of violent separatist groups. nothing to worry about here.... In Xinjiang, a local Turkic Muslim people, the Uighurs (WEE'-gurs), have chafed under Chinese rule, fully imposed after the communists took power nearly 60 years ago. Occasionally violent attacks in the 1990s brought an intense response from Beijing, which has stationed crack paramilitary units in the area and clamped down on unregistered mosques and religious schools that officials said were inciting militant action. Uighurs have complained that the suppression has aggravated tensions in Xinjiang, making Uighurs feel even more threatened by an influx of Chinese and driving some to flee to Pakistan and other areas where they then have readier access to extremist ideologies. One militant group, the Turkistan Islamic Party, pledged in a video that surfaced on the Internet last month to "target the most critical points related to the Olympics." The group is believed to be based across the border in Pakistan, with some of its core members having received training from al-Qaida and the Pakistani Taliban, according to terrorism experts. well that will never happen cuase i'm sure they won't be able to figure out how to cross china once there in, you know how stupid terrorists are??? Terrorism analysts and Chinese authorities, however, have said that with more than 100,000 soldiers and police guarding Beijing and other Olympic co-host cities, terrorists were more likely to attack less-protected areas. ok, well there must be nothing to worry about then,,, time to drink the cool aid, and reinsert our heads in the sand.... this isn't shameless, this is a real threat! and netincome there is alot more in this article than the group you mentioned.
I don't want to say too much about what NI does, but I'm fairly confident that he has a very good understanding of what is going on due to his professional life.
i'm sure he does, and i know what he does. But it is an area that is in a very hotbed of terrorism, and all the experts are saying different things in the article. Its just hard for me to totally discount what they say as well. But of course i'm being shameless.
I invite / encourage you to talk about it in the S2 Religion and Politics forum http://sportstwo.com/forums/Religion-Politics-f63.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nets1 @ Aug 5 2008, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i'm sure he does, and i know what he does. But it is an area that is in a very hotbed of terrorism, and all the experts are saying different things in the article. Its just hard for me to totally discount what they say as well. But of course i'm being shameless.</div> It's a hotbed of political repression. And again, the attack was not on civilians but on the repressive machinery of the Han Chinese police state. In 1982, the US State Department declared the African National Congress a terrorist group. How'd that work out?
One thing you can count on: any information being released from CHINA has undergone a broad series of dis-information first. Just like in Tibetan attacks (more recently), its going to be hard to get the full, accurate picture. What we do know is this: there is political unrest in China. And we do know how China typically deals with it...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>One thing you can count on: any information being released from CHINA has undergone a broad series of dis-information first. Just like in Tibetan attacks (more recently), its going to be hard to get the full, accurate picture. What we do know is this: there is political unrest in China. And we do know how China typically deals with it...</div> No kidding dude. When you have western media cropping pictures like CNN did to distort stories, it's no wonder why most Americans can't even tell what's reality anymore. Fortunately major media outlet can no longer control the flow of information anymore so for those who want to hear both side of the stories the info is out there. All you've got to do is research it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nets1 @ Aug 5 2008, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i'm sure he does, and i know what he does. But it is an area that is in a very hotbed of terrorism, and all the experts are saying different things in the article. Its just hard for me to totally discount what they say as well. But of course i'm being shameless.</div> Calm down dude. I am going to Beijing in a few days, so take stories like these very seriously. However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Aug 5 2008, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's a hotbed of political repression. And again, the attack was not on civilians but on the repressive machinery of the Han Chinese police state. In 1982, the US State Department declared the African National Congress a terrorist group. How'd that work out?</div> Yeah for sure. The US need to 'liberate' these people so they can live in peace and harmony just like in Iraq right?................................................oh wait. Never mind.
These Olympics was never going to be just about the athletes. When the IOC ignores major problems (both political and logistical) because they're so eager for advertising revenue and tapping into a huge growing market, they have to expect the inevitable backlash. Can't have it both ways.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Aug 5 2008, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's a hotbed of political repression. And again, the attack was not on civilians but on the repressive machinery of the Han Chinese police state. In 1982, the US State Department declared the African National Congress a terrorist group. How'd that work out?</div> Yeah for sure. The US need to 'liberate' these people so they can live in peace and harmony just like in Iraq right?................................................oh wait. Never mind. </div> Talk about calming down. No one is talking about liberating anyone. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div> You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div> You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda. </div> Word! Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur. There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones. IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks. Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Aug 5 2008, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>One thing you can count on: any information being released from CHINA has undergone a broad series of dis-information first. Just like in Tibetan attacks (more recently), its going to be hard to get the full, accurate picture. What we do know is this: there is political unrest in China. And we do know how China typically deals with it...</div> No kidding dude. When you have western media cropping pictures like CNN did to distort stories, it's no wonder why most Americans can't even tell what's reality anymore. Fortunately major media outlet can no longer control the flow of information anymore so for those who want to hear both side of the stories the info is out there. All you've got to do is research it. </div> I never more shocked in my life after witnessing the combined effort of the U.S. mainstream media's propaganda smear campaign over the Tibetan riots. Pictures after pictures of misinformation over police and military violence. Yet, none of the photoed guilty police/soldiers were from China. I felt dumbed down and insulted. It's like you can trust internet gossip more than MSM news, it's very disturbing. Also, the major news sources are starting to quote people from message boards. There is now a blur to what's what, chicken or the egg type of confusion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div> You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda. </div> Word! Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur. There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones. IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks. Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better. </div> I talked about this on the Yaoming forum. Why send entertainers to teach politics? Unless you're just there to give them a show. I can respect athletes and actors fighting for a reason. However I find it hard to rationalize sending out Hollywood actors and Athletes to preach politics, I find it insincere. Ira Newble sent a letter, that's fine, but he didn't fight like Ali did against the Vietnam war. In my mind, I respect Ali, but not Newble. Also, you don't see people quote Ali in America as much because USA is in at war for the last 7 years and killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Edit: oh and look at Pat Tillman, he was a hero. He gave up his NFL career to be an Army Ranger and fight terrorists. He ended up shot and killed by friendly fire and the army tried to cover that sh1t up.
I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though. This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Aug 5 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div> You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda. </div> Word! Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur. There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones. IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks. Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better. </div> I talked about this on the Yaoming forum. Why send entertainers to teach politics? Unless you're just there to give them a show. I can respect athletes and actors fighting for a reason. However I find it hard to rationalize sending out Hollywood actors and Athletes to preach politics, I find it insincere. Ira Newble sent a letter, that's fine, but he didn't fight like Ali did against the Vietnam war. In my mind, I respect Ali, but not Newble. Also, you don't see people quote Ali in America as much because USA is in at war for the last 7 years and killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Edit: oh and look at Pat Tillman, he was a hero. He gave up his NFL career to be an Army Ranger and fight terrorists. He ended up shot and killed by friendly fire and the army tried to cover that sh1t up. </div> Because famous athletes have the attention of normal people more than anyone else. Ira actually went overseas to Darfur to meet with their people and to see what was happening. He invests time and money into the people who have been suffering over there, and even though he didn't even get invited, he decided on protesting the Olympics (what the letter's about). He tried to get other players to sign it as well, not just from the NBA, but also from the MLB, NFL - but I'm not that sure that many signed. What I see from you're statement is pure disrespect - Ira's at least trying to open up minds to what's happening, and is at least try to fight it - who are you to just put him down like that? What are you doing to help the people in Darfur? At least give the man some damn respect for trying. Just because he isn't as famous or well-known as Ali, it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve your respect. So you respect Ali - wouldn't you respect Lebron if he did the same as Ali? Wouldn't you respect him if he came out and said "I refuse to play for Team USA in Beijing because of the bullshit the Chinese government is doing"? Is that something you'd want him to do (on his own free will)?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I respect Newble for attempting to make sense of what's a messy situation and making a stand for what he thinks is right. I don't necessarily take him as seriously as other athletes who I feel have a better level of understanding though. This thread is hitting a hundred different tangents. They're all interesting topics, but I feel like every response is talking about something entirely new.</div> Those athletes who "have a better level of understanding" - are they really doing anything about it? Are they trying to open up other people to what is happening, and at least trying to educate people on the bullshit that's going on?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur. There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones. IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks. Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better.</div> So you want to talk about Darfur now do you? So how much do you know about Darfur besides the bias one sided reports that you've heard. You just may want to do a little bit of research into Darfur and why it is an international issue. Not surprisingly OIL has something to do with it. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue.../0525forget.htm http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html So why is human 'rights' suddenly a concern to the US? Wouldn't have something to do with wanting to take control of the oilfields in Sudan would it? After all the world is only 5 years removed from passionate pleas by the US and it's allies about Iraq's WMDs and their supposed secruity 'threat' to the world all in the name of securing oil supplies. So what's wrong with starting up more lies to secure so more oil hey???? The US is the LEADING nation of TWO ongoing wars on foreign terroritory, which is claiming civilian lives DAILY. Yet its own people choose to turn a blind eye to and while at the very same time have no problem in riding the moral high horse and accused other countries of human 'rights' violation. That goes to show the hyprocritical world that we live in.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Aug 5 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 5 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Aug 5 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tang Man @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However all I am saying is that there is just a lot negative press about China at the moment. It seems like every reporter around the world is competing with each other to see who will take out the gold medal for writing the most anti-China and anti-Olympic story. Is that NOT shameless, when the athletes should be the focus of the world's attention. This is their time, but there are just a lot of people out there who wants to hijack Olympics for their own political agenda.</div> You mean other than the Chinese governments political agenda? It's the Olympics, there is always a political agenda. </div> Word! Talking about politics in the Olympics, I'm surprised no one has touched on the Chinese supposedly providing weapons to terrorists in Darfur. There was the letter that Ira Newble constructed for the Chinese government that he had everyone on the Cavs team sign, except Lebron and (for obvious reasons) Damon Jones. IMO athletes like that should make some sort of a political stand against that bullshit, right? They have all the money, recognition, etc. that it seems whatever they say, people will listen - well, for Lebron at least - and that they could change the whole face of this Olympics with just one, small statement. Yet no one is really saying it, they're just ignoring the subject like punks. Makes me wish Etan Thomas never got injured. Then, he would be more than a marginal player, and more people would take notice to him - so that he could get his deep, great messages across much, much better. </div> I talked about this on the Yaoming forum. Why send entertainers to teach politics? Unless you're just there to give them a show. I can respect athletes and actors fighting for a reason. However I find it hard to rationalize sending out Hollywood actors and Athletes to preach politics, I find it insincere. Ira Newble sent a letter, that's fine, but he didn't fight like Ali did against the Vietnam war. In my mind, I respect Ali, but not Newble. Also, you don't see people quote Ali in America as much because USA is in at war for the last 7 years and killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Edit: oh and look at Pat Tillman, he was a hero. He gave up his NFL career to be an Army Ranger and fight terrorists. He ended up shot and killed by friendly fire and the army tried to cover that sh1t up. </div> Because famous athletes have the attention of normal people more than anyone else. Ira actually went overseas to Darfur to meet with their people and to see what was happening. He invests time and money into the people who have been suffering over there, and even though he didn't even get invited, he decided on protesting the Olympics (what the letter's about). He tried to get other players to sign it as well, not just from the NBA, but also from the MLB, NFL - but I'm not that sure that many signed. What I see from you're statement is pure disrespect - Ira's at least trying to open up minds to what's happening, and is at least try to fight it - who are you to just put him down like that? What are you doing to help the people in Darfur? At least give the man some damn respect for trying. Just because he isn't as famous or well-known as Ali, it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve your respect. So you respect Ali - wouldn't you respect Lebron if he did the same as Ali? Wouldn't you respect him if he came out and said "I refuse to play for Team USA in Beijing because of the bullshit the Chinese government is doing"? Is that something you'd want him to do (on his own free will)? </div> Ok according to your logic. Athletes get more attention, they become better mouthpiece to voice opinions. Newble need learn to play better ball. I would respect Lebron if he quit the NBA to protest the war on Iraq. I would also respec Yao Ming if he quit because of Darfur. I wouldn't respect anyone that's being a puppet for their government.
