I think Paul would be far better then Roy about setting up other guys. I also think games wouldn't be as close as we would get in transition way more and blow teams off the floor as we wouldn't be running ISO's all day. I hear what you are saying, but I think that lineup is a step up over ones where we trade Batum + Oden or LMA for Paul. Just my opinion. I also think LMA and Oden's confidence would be through the roof with all the easy buckets that Paul would yield. I just think it's a better team. My concern again would be close games. I think we destroy Houston with a healthy Yao for instance with this team and run the Suns out of the gym. I also think we would carve up LA with Father Time at the PG. Not saying that we crush LA just own them at PG. We have two guys to put on Kobe who can both knock down the three. I just think it's a step up. Not as massive a one as if you keep LMA/Roy/Oden and add Paul of course, but as everyone has said multiple times that might not be an option. I'm saying this is a REASONABLE way to get Paul.
Don't understand what is so confusing. The context was within the reasoning put forth in the source I quoted. TP won a championship, folks obviously don't consider him a superstar, but CP3 is a superstar. TP won a championship, CP3 hasn't. Folk are ready to sale the farm to land CP3 vs giving up very little to land TP. My point was, if you consider Roy a superstar, than bring in TP to be a supporting star. Kobe won with Pau, Duncan won with TP. If Roy isn't a superstar, than by the line of reasoning espoused by the quoted poster, you would have to say you would trade Roy to land CP3 (so you would have your superstar to take you to the Promised Land). So, what is this "It doesn't in any way shape or form mean you have to trade Roy to get him though. (If reports are to be believed)." What does that have to do with my post. I was talking about a theory and you are mixing "reality". I never said you would have to give up Roy for a CP3 trade, I was saying that according to the posters reasoning he (that poster) would have to be willing to give up Roy for CP3. I think TP, Roy, and Batum are a better mix than CP3, Fernandez or Williams, and Babbitt. Hope that clears up what I was talking about.
Well if you have access to Tony Parker Circa 2004 it's a no brainer. We're talking an injury riddled (remember it's the mileage not the year) Tony Parker of 2010 who barely broke above average on PER. If you can get TP without giving up Roy/LMA/Oden/Batum it's a no brainer. I think people are concerned about giving up the upside and youth of Batum for a possible one year rental of an older then age TP. A valid concern in my book. Again if you can get him for scraps then fuckin A! I'd have to consider a Roy for CP3 trade over a Batum for TP trade. Yes, I'm quite serious. If I was CERTAIN TP had gas in the tank I'd go for it, but I will never be certain of that as long as SA is trading him. In fact quite the opposite is true.
The debate is whether or not CP3/Babbitt are a better duo than Parker/Batum. Of course CP3 is way better than TP.
If you agreed to send expiring contracts with Roy and take back Okafor maybe they would find it more attractive. It would be more appealling to a new owner and their fanbase.
I hear ya Fez, I was just saying what the debate was about. Personally I would begrudgingly give up Oden or Batum in a package. However, I would not be willing to give up both without unprotected draft pick(s) coming back. However, that's just me. If it happened (we lost both) I would find a way to mend my broken heart...
I see this a lot, the getting out and running, and how CP3 would all of a sudden improve that. The Hornets ran a very slow pace. He is a PnR PG. They run the pick and roll all the time down the floor. Same way we do with Roy. Iso, pick and roll. Problem is, our guys don't set good picks, and they don't seem to roll well. Regardless, if you double CP on the pick, it has nothing to do with setting up other people. Our biggest issue is having a #2 player step up, and CP3 being a good PnR player doesn't improve us on that. We don't get out and run, and I don't see how Paul improves us on that, since they don't do it there.
uh, yeah. I meant to pair up the PG and SF since reportedly you would be dealing Batum to get CP3, but you would keep Batum if you go for TP. I don't think that Williams would start at SF, but Matthews probably can. So it would be CP3/Matthews vs TP/Batum. See what I did there? The whole Roy debate is a separate issue...
I still think we run more with CP3. I see what you are saying about PnR plays. I agree our picks (other the Joel/Oden) are little girl picks and they seem to POP alot more then roll. I think with a healthy GO both of those would be solved. As to a second scorer without Roy it's GO in the post. I just don't get why people didn't see that even with a VERY unpolished post game he was insanely dominant. Half the time he would simply over power his man. His TS% and EFG% were an insane: .647 & .605 respectively. When he missed half the time he got his own shot back. Have people totally blanked on the first half of 2009/10 or something? GO was fucking killing it and often leading the league in 3 categories FG%, Blocks and Drtg at different points, also his PER was above Roy's until he went down. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/odengr01.html Man the collective amnesia around here is insane. Roy and GO didn't seem super compatible (Roy being a bitch? Oden clogging the lane and blocking Roy? Both?) where as GO and CP3 would go together like Choclate, Ecstasy and Three ways with college girls. Again in my mind we have ONE shot at a championship and that is through GO. Paul + Roy don't get us there unless they have Oden as well. You have got to have a front court player of extraordinary magnitude, especially with the Stern Wet Dream Team down in Miami.
Gotcha, had Roy for CP3 on the brain. It would be CP3/Matthews anyways I think. No way Babbit starts next year. No fucking way.
Nobody has amnesia or is blanking, calm down and have a discussion. Assuming Oden is your second scorer, and I was assuming that for currrently, then Paul doesn't change that. Then we already have our second scorer. WHEN DOUBLED, or taken out of the game, or with teams geared to him, we needed a 2nd guy to do something, and didn't have that. Not saying when Paul gets into the lane and gives GO a lob. I'm saying when you force him to pass out of a double, and take him away. Then you're posting up Greg. So why can't he be our second scorer with Brandon? And if he CAN, then it makes Aldridge more effective, etc. Again, our biggest issue being that second scorer, the primary benefit I see with Paul is he becomes our second, or 1B scorer, and that means we greatly improved our second scorer, and thus 3rd, 4th and 5th. But if you trade Roy fo rhim, you have that same pecking order, strong 1, and ho9ping on Oden for 2. If Oden can become a solid #2, then he'd be perfectly fine with Roy. I'd give them more than 15-20 awkward games with Miller to try it out.
Well then I guess I was confused about why someone would want to have a long conversation about something that's never going to happen.
No need to invoke the calmness. Also plenty of folks DO seem to have amnesia, you apparently are not one of them. Plenty of folks on here just don't see any promise in GO whatsoever and I find that mindblowing. Sure be soul crushingly disappointed with the injuries (I was at a fancy dinner party and almost excused myself to puke December 2009), but don't knock the game. I know you aren't one of those, but there are plenty on this forum who are that way. I see what you are saying and don't disagree. Would love a defensive point who could shoot the ball. I also agree that Roy and Oden could work things out. I think last year was humbling for Roy as he learned not to take the summer off and accumulate rust. I think he learned again that he NEEDS a second big time player and probably knows by now that as currently constructed it's Oden. It's been such a crazy state of constant massive transition since the 2007 draft that it's really all speculation as to what we have RIGHT NOW, let alone with a blockbuster trade. I still make a move for CP3, but if Roy and Oden can play together and Oden stay healthy and grow as a player we might have the nuts right now without anything more then a minor trade for a different kind of PG. Maybe something like this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26nrn98 followed by this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2a8kyj6 PG: Conley/Johnson/Mills SG: Roy/Matthews/Williams SF: Batum/Matthews/Cunningham PF: LMA/Varejao/Arthur/Pendergraph C: Oden/Camby/Varejao Cut the rest of the guys. Get a PG who can distribute and shoot. Yes Conley is a gamble, but he has the tools (range, 3 ball and quicks) he just has been in basketball hell with OJ Mayo as his personal Satan. I think a move to the NW and being with GO would be a boon. It might help sway GO to resign here as well (hopefully that isn't an issue). It doesn't solve your 2nd scorer problem unless GO becomes that guy but we add a lot of depth and defensive capability without giving up much.
As mentioned before, we aren't talking about TP from 2004. We are talking about a TP that, IMO, is nowhere near his 2004 level, has been injured and could be declining. CP3 is still head-and-shoulders above a 2004 TP. I get your point of putting another superstar with Roy, if Roy is considered a superstar. But TP isn't a superstar. I'm not sure he ever was, but he isn't near that level now. Additionally, Roy isn't at Duncan's level of 2004. So the argument that TP as the second superstar to Duncan being equivalent to TP being the second star to Roy doesn't work, IMO.
Fair enough. I think that Parker was worn down by playing during the summer with Batum. Having a summer off, I think that he will be fine. We'll see if he gets all the way back. I like Parker more than Miller, so I don't mind trading pieces (anyone outside of our top 4) for him. My first choice is to get CP3. I do think our legitimate shot at a Championship goes through an injury plagued GO, but we knew that GO was our shot when we drafted him, unfortunately injuries have happened.
Well, maybe you shouldn't hang out on the team message boards where everyone has conversations about things that will never happen. I don't think we will get CP3, so I guess we shouldn't talk about it.
