Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Mar 6 2007, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, I think in a lot of ways, the Suns were HARDER to beat than they will be this year. Hear me out on this. Last year Amare was out and thus effected the way D'Antoni coached and what he put out on the floor. The Suns basically lost thier center and main points in the paint scorer. Enstead of replacing him with another guy like that on the roster, they signed Tim Thomas and just extended the floor. They brought out Erick Dampier and Diop on the defensive end and took the out of the paint and thier comfort zone. In this, the Suns got some big games by Thomas since he either a) made open three point shots that were given to him by the Maverick centers, or the Suns had much more open cutting lanes since Diop/Damp werent there. In a lot of ways, Amare is going to be a much easier player to guard for the Maverick centers than Tim Thomas was. Amare at least is going to be closer to the basket where Damp and Diop feel more comfortable. They also are more effective there since they A) are in prime rebouning position, clog up cutting lanes, and c) are able to block shots. This is why I think in a lot of ways that the Suns had a better chance last year. No one talks about this. I think that when the playoffs role around, this will be shown.Now in no way am I saying that Tim Thomas is better than Amare or that Amare isnt going to score on the Mavs. Its like this, would I rather have the Maverick centers gaurd Yao or Rashard Lewis? I would rather them take Yao even though he is a much better player than Lewis. Lewis though would be able to exploit them and take them out of thier comfort zone. Also, I know its been touched on by some of ya'll above me, but everyone is talking about the mismatchs that are in the Suns favour, but the Mavericks have much better mismatches in their favour. I've said it before, but the Suns are going to have to pick thier poison with two players this year. They are going to have to choose who they are going to let dominate the game. Marion cant guard both Dirk and Howard and Bell cant gaurd both Terry and Harris. Two of the four will have big series. Here is something else. The Mavericks offense is based on finding the mismatch and exploiting it. The Suns switch screens. This happened last year. I give some examples of this in the Spurs/Mavs series. Dirk was gaurded by Tony Parker on numerous occasions during games not because Coach Pop is an idiot and put him on Dirk, but rather because they switched screens when Harris and Dirk played the two man game. Either one of two things happened most of the time, either Dirk posted up Tony on the free throw line and scored or Harris drove right past Oberto or Horry and scored on a layup. This was no different in the Phoenix series. Now Harris didnt explode in this series like he did in the Spurs series, but he still was very effective. Nash got switched to Dirk on so many plays. He abused him or Barbosa. I'll take the Maverick mismatches over the Suns mismatches any day.</div>Having Amare back makes the Suns better because the Mavs centers just can not guard him. He was defended well in their last game I thought but then he ended up with 25 points and he keeps getting better and better every month and will step up his game during the playoffs. The lanes will still be open because Amare can hit the midrange shot very well and if they go up to guard whoever is driving to the basket that'll leave Amare open for a quick dunk. I like our mismatches a lot. Nash gets so many easy scores on Dirk.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 6 2007, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Howard owns Marion in all the meetings against each other.</div>Playoffs2005:Marion - 23.3 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 1.5 spg, 1.8 bpg, 48.2 fg% (54-112)Howard - 17.7 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.0 spg, 0.3 bpg, 55.0 fg% (44-80)2006:Marion - 16.8 ppg, 13.2 ppg, 1.8 stl, 1.2 bpg, 53.1 fg% (43-81)Howard - 19.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.5 stl, 0.5 bpg, 49.5 fg% (45-91)I disagree :happy0144:
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Mar 6 2007, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, I think in a lot of ways, the Suns were HARDER to beat than they will be this year. Hear me out on this. Last year Amare was out and thus effected the way D'Antoni coached and what he put out on the floor. The Suns basically lost thier center and main points in the paint scorer. Enstead of replacing him with another guy like that on the roster, they signed Tim Thomas and just extended the floor. They brought out Erick Dampier and Diop on the defensive end and took the out of the paint and thier comfort zone. In this, the Suns got some big games by Thomas since he either a) made open three point shots that were given to him by the Maverick centers, or the Suns had much more open cutting lanes since Diop/Damp werent there. In a lot of ways, Amare is going to be a much easier player to guard for the Maverick centers than Tim Thomas was. Amare at least is going to be closer to the basket where Damp and Diop feel more comfortable. They also are more effective there since they A) are in prime rebouning position, clog up cutting lanes, and c) are able to block shots. This is why I think in a lot of ways that the Suns had a better chance last year. No one talks about this. I think that when the playoffs role around, this will be shown.</div>Way off here. Amare can hit the 15ft-18ft jumpshot consistently. If Dampier or Diop go out to guard him, he will drive and dunk it on them. Amare was HELL for them 2 years ago, and in their 1 meeting this year with him healthy he had 25/13. The Nash/Amare pick and roll is dangerous as ever, and Mavs don't have the players to stop it.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Also, I know its been touched on by some of ya'll above me, but everyone is talking about the mismatchs that are in the Suns favour, but the Mavericks have much better mismatches in their favour. I've said it before, but the Suns are going to have to pick thier poison with two players this year. They are going to have to choose who they are going to let dominate the game. Marion cant guard both Dirk and Howard and Bell cant gaurd both Terry and Harris. Two of the four will have big series.</div>Again, depends on the lineup D'Antoni decides to go with. If he goes with the defensive one, with Amare on Dirk, Marion on Howard and Raja on Terry, the mismatches are much more in Phoenix's favor. Will he put Amare on Dirk is the big question, but I think it would be very effective in keeping Dirk fairly in check and allowing better matchups against the other Mavs players.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! ^The difference is, as pj alluded to, is that in last years WCF's one of our defensive strengths, our 2 headed C position, was nullified, and if I remember correctly neither guy played more than a few minutes a game.This year, they will play, and while they won't stop Amare, they'll make him work for it more than just about anyone else will, plus, as pj said, clog the lane and help not give those easy layup drills the Suns seem to have against anyone.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 6 2007, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^The difference is, as pj alluded to, is that in last years WCF's one of our defensive strengths, our 2 headed C position, was nullified, and if I remember correctly neither guy played more than a few minutes a game.This year, they will play, and while they won't stop Amare, they'll make him work for it more than just about anyone else will, plus, as pj said, clog the lane and help not give those easy layup drills the Suns seem to have against anyone.</div>They will be nullified yet again. Neither of them can do ANYTHING about Amare. 2 years ago Amare fu*ked them up, and this year dropped 25/13. He can shoot the 15-18ft jumpshot, so he extends the D. If you go up on him, he willd rive right past them for a dunk.Amare will cause far more problems than Tim Thomas did.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! Well, I hate to spoil your parade, but 2 years ago they only had Damp, not Diop...and that may not seem like a big deal it was.PJ is right...we couldn't play the Centers last year, which hurt the Mavs, this year we can, regardless if they can keep Amare under 20 or not...like I said, you won't have layup drills to the hoop like you did last year, and was really the only reason PHX played Dallas close IMO.If the Centers are out there, advantage Dallas, even if they aren't the offensive machines that Amare is.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! Diop/Dampier might not be the Amare stopper but they are a better shot at slowing him down than most. Another name I think that can keep Dirk away from guarding Amare is Devean George. I think he has the speed and strength to botter Amare as well. Also rebounding will be the deciding factor in this series. The mavs are much better at rebounding now than they were 2 years ago.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! If I am D'Antoni I would put James Jones on Dirk come playoff time. Jones is the only player on the Suns roster that has had some success at defending Dirk and it would allow Marion to switch over onto Howard and allows Amare to work in the paint and alter shots of those who go inside.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 6 2007, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Way off here. Amare can hit the 15ft-18ft jumpshot consistently. If Dampier or Diop go out to guard him, he will drive and dunk it on them. Amare was HELL for them 2 years ago, and in their 1 meeting this year with him healthy he had 25/13. The Nash/Amare pick and roll is dangerous as ever, and Mavs don't have the players to stop it.</div>Trust me, I'll gladly give Amare and his shot a 15 to 18 ft jumpshot over Tim Thomas 3's. Let's not make Amare into God just yet. His jumpshot is suspect at best. I honestly dont know how the Mavericks are considered a top 3 defensive squad in the NBA, but yet cant stop the Nash pick and roll. Yes, Nash is a hell of a player, but DEFENSE WINS. We have a ton of defensive minded players in Howard, Buckner, Harris, George, Damper, and Diop. Harris is argueably the best defensive point guard in the West. Another thing is, great defensive teams actaully give help on defense. In alot of ways, its not going to be Amare against Dampier, its going to be Amare against the Mavericks. Matchups are a big part of the game, but they arent everything. Great defensive teams can stop good players. Also, who says Amare is as good as two years ago? Who can say he's on the same level? Who can say he's better? If he can improve, why cant the Mavericks defense? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Again, depends on the lineup D'Antoni decides to go with. If he goes with the defensive one, with Amare on Dirk, Marion on Howard and Raja on Terry, the mismatches are much more in Phoenix's favor. Will he put Amare on Dirk is the big question, but I think it would be very effective in keeping Dirk fairly in check and allowing better matchups against the other Mavs players.</div>I'd say it really doesn't matter what lineup that D'Antoni puts out,he'll have to change it because Avery has more cards in his deck than Mike has. Avery can put out a lot more lineups that can change the game than D'Antoni can. Also, BCB said it before me, the Suns still dont play defense.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Diawsome @ Mar 6 2007, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If I am D'Antoni I would put James Jones on Dirk come playoff time. Jones is the only player on the Suns roster that has had some success at defending Dirk and it would allow Marion to switch over onto Howard and allows Amare to work in the paint and alter shots of those who go inside.</div>Well, James Jones has shown at times that he can be our best defender, but Marion has proved more and I'd be more comfortable with him there. If Jones can make his shots this year I'd like to see what he can do against Howard or Dirk.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 6 2007, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, I hate to spoil your parade, but 2 years ago they only had Damp, not Diop...and that may not seem like a big deal it was.PJ is right...we couldn't play the Centers last year, which hurt the Mavs, this year we can, regardless if they can keep Amare under 20 or not...like I said, you won't have layup drills to the hoop like you did last year, and was really the only reason PHX played Dallas close IMO.If the Centers are out there, advantage Dallas, even if they aren't the offensive machines that Amare is.</div>I am interested in seeing what Diop could do against Amare as his athleticism and quickness would allow him to go out of the paint to challenge Amare's jumper. Dampier on the other not so much as he is just not capable of keeping up with Amare.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Mar 6 2007, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Trust me, I'll gladly give Amare and his shot a 15 to 18 ft jumpshot over Tim Thomas 3's. Let's not make Amare into God just yet. His jumpshot is suspect at best. I honestly dont know how the Mavericks are considered a top 3 defensive squad in the NBA, but yet cant stop the Nash pick and roll. Yes, Nash is a hell of a player, but DEFENSE WINS. We have a ton of defensive minded players in Howard, Buckner, Harris, George, Damper, and Diop. Harris is argueably the best defensive point guard in the West. Another thing is, great defensive teams actaully give help on defense. In alot of ways, its not going to be Amare against Dampier, its going to be Amare against the Mavericks. Matchups are a big part of the game, but they arent everything. Great defensive teams can stop good players. Also, who says Amare is as good as two years ago? Who can say he's on the same level? Who can say he's better? If he can improve, why cant the Mavericks defense? I'd say it really doesn't matter what lineup that D'Antoni puts out,he'll have to change it because Avery has more cards in his deck than Mike has. Avery can put out a lot more lineups that can change the game than D'Antoni can. Also, BCB said it before me, the Suns still dont play defense.</div>The Mavericks can't stop Nash and Amare, they NEVER have, not even in this season's game. Amare has been getting better each month and looking more and more like the old Amare. He is actually a better overall player than before. Damp and Diop will block him more, but Amare is still going to destroy both overall and having him there will make Dallas' job a lot harder. If James Jones shoots like he has been since the leather ball came back we'll still have 4-5 3-point shooters in the rotation, Amare just keeps us from being the 1-dimensional offense we were.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 6 2007, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Mavericks can't stop Nash and Amare, they NEVER have, not even in this season's game. Amare has been getting better each month and looking more and more like the old Amare. He is actually a better overall player than before. Damp and Diop will block him more, but Amare is still going to destroy both overall and having him there will make Dallas' job a lot harder. If James Jones shoots like he has been since the leather ball came back we'll still have 4-5 3-point shooters in the rotation, Amare just keeps us from being the 1-dimensional offense we were.</div>What I find funny is that the Mavericks cant stop the Suns pick and roll and play defense, but the Suns will indeed stop the Dirk/Harris pick and roll yet play minimal defense. Kind of hyercritical I think. I think I'll just leave it at that until playoff time. Us talking isnt going to change the way they play on the court.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Mar 6 2007, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What I find funny is that the Mavericks cant stop the Suns pick and roll and play defense, but the Suns will indeed stop the Dirk/Harris pick and roll yet play minimal defense. Kind of hyercritical I think. I think I'll just leave it at that until playoff time. Us talking isnt going to change the way they play on the court.</div>Okay, I just wouldn't say that you could stop them if you guys haven't already which is why I haven't said anything about the Suns stopping anyone.Damn I'm angry, I'm missing the next Suns-Mavs game. It's because I'm going to Mexico so I'm okay with that, but you guys are going to have to provide me with a lot of in-depth posting.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjcolpitts? @ Mar 6 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Trust me, I'll gladly give Amare and his shot a 15 to 18 ft jumpshot over Tim Thomas 3's. Let's not make Amare into God just yet. His jumpshot is suspect at best. I honestly dont know how the Mavericks are considered a top 3 defensive squad in the NBA, but yet cant stop the Nash pick and roll. Yes, Nash is a hell of a player, but DEFENSE WINS. We have a ton of defensive minded players in Howard, Buckner, Harris, George, Damper, and Diop. Harris is argueably the best defensive point guard in the West. Another thing is, great defensive teams actaully give help on defense. In alot of ways, its not going to be Amare against Dampier, its going to be Amare against the Mavericks. Matchups are a big part of the game, but they arent everything. Great defensive teams can stop good players. Also, who says Amare is as good as two years ago? Who can say he's on the same level? Who can say he's better? If he can improve, why cant the Mavericks defense?</div>Suspect at best...are you serious?!? His jumper has been automatic all year from 10-15ft. If good defensive teams can stop good players, then why did the Mavs let Duncan go for 30PPG last year in playoffs, or how about Wade's 40PPG through last 4 games of Finals? How about Yao's 36 this year, or T-Mac's 45? Lebron's 39? How about Amare's 25/13? The Mavs couldn't stop the Nash/Amare pick and roll 2 years ago, and in the 1 game Amare was healthy this year, they couldn't stop it now.Again, in 1 game this year, he dropped 25/13 on the Mavs. Everything that he exploited 2 years ago was still there. Still too athletic and quick for the Mavs centers, and has enough range where it causes many problems. This also opens up the jumpshooters, and on the pick and roll gives nash countless options. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'd say it really doesn't matter what lineup that D'Antoni puts out,he'll have to change it because Avery has more cards in his deck than Mike has. Avery can put out a lot more lineups that can change the game than D'Antoni can. Also, BCB said it before me, the Suns still dont play defense.</div>Nash, Bell, Amare, Diaw, Marion, Barbosa, KT, Jones and Banks are a 9 man rotation and are some of the toughest guards and mismatches in the league. I doubt the Mavs will play more than 8-10 players, so no I don't think that the Mavs have that many more cards to play.Marion, Bell and KT are all very good defenders, and Amare has become a very good inside presence that changes shots. They can play D, but their style of play hides it. If they have certain lineups out, they can make it a halfcourt game and not be killed on the defensive end while still scoring points.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! If the mavs get 5 more offensive rebounds that is about 5 more shots so even if the suns outshoot the mavs they could still lose because of not getting as many shots. Also the mavs are good at forcing turnovers. Harris has been able to control Nash. Maybe not stop him but at least make Nash work.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! How did this topic spawn three pages already? It was pointless, Dallas has no answer for Amare, how poignant of a topic.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! ^You're right. Just like PHX doesn't have an answer for Dirk...I think if we all see both of those points as true, this topic should be over.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 6 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Marion, Bell and KT are all very good defenders, and Amare has become a very good inside presence that changes shots. They can play D, but their style of play hides it. If they have certain lineups out, they can make it a halfcourt game and not be killed on the defensive end while still scoring points.</div> The Phoenix Suns don't play defense. They give up 100 points every night, whenever I watch them they get abused on the defensive end.
Re: Dallas has no answer for Amare Stoudemire! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Mar 7 2007, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Phoenix Suns don't play defense. They give up 100 points every night, whenever I watch them they get abused on the defensive end.</div> The lakers of the '80's gave up anywhere from 105-110PPG depending on the season, does that make them a bad defensive team?The style of play Phoenix decides to go with gives other teams easy baskets. But Phoenix, while not a great defensive team by any means, is a good defensive team with a few very good individual defenders. People give Bell huge props, many think Marion is DPOY, and KT and Amare are both good interior defenders (especially KT).
