Darko predictions

Discussion in 'Detroit Pistons' started by olskoolfunktitude, Aug 23, 2003.

  1. mike18946

    mike18946 JBB

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trail_Blazer76:</div><div class="quote_post">Matt Harpring.....</div>

    He never fitted into the style of play Brown played at Sixers.He was always going to be overlooked playing with Iverson.Harpring also started by playing at SF.So why did you mention his name in this?
     
  2. jbbKing James

    jbbKing James JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">He never fitted into the style of play Brown played at Sixers.He was always going to be overlooked playing with Iverson.Harpring also started by playing at SF.So why did you mention his name in this?</div>

    Harpring was a rookie with Orlando anyways, I don't get it either.
     
  3. michiganjblog

    michiganjblog JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">I continue to hear that rubbish,but what talented rookies or young talents has he not played?</div>
    All right. I take it back, both because I don't have the time or energy to try and back up my statements with facts, and because even if I did, I'm guessing I wouldn't find the aforementioned facts.

    Frankly, I'm just frustrated, and I'll bet it stems largely from the fact I respect Joe Dumars so much. I know nothing of Dumars personally, but from his public persona he seems like a genuinely caring individual who knows the game and loves the Pistons, and he believes Milicic was the pick, given his team. (The point made above regarding Tayshaun Prince is key - Prince has filled the SF role superbly for Detroit, making the drafting of Anthony unnecessary, even if Dicky V. thinks he's the next incarnation of God Himself.) Thus, I'd like to see Joe be right.

    The fact is, I've never seen the Pistons practice. I have no idea how Darko is adjusting to living in the states, how he's doing with his conditioning, whether or not he's ready for the banging of the NBA. But every game he rides the pine, every game he plays 49 seconds of garbage time and misses a half-hearted dunk as time expires because the bucket is meaningless, every game Rebraca gets 10 to 15 minutes of core game time, is another game that feeds the "Detroit should've taken Anthony over Milicic" mentality, and it drives me nuts.

    So I'll back off the "Brown doesn't play rookies" stuff, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating to watch.
     
  4. Trail_Blazer76

    Trail_Blazer76 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sandman:</div><div class="quote_post">Harpring was a rookie with Orlando anyways, I don't get it either.</div>

    Actually if you re-read my previous post you'll see that I quoted allnet as asking; "what rookies or young talent had Brown not played." I never claimed that Harpring was a rookie in Philly, but he was a young talent.

    Anyway, Harpring is a prime example of a player who did not get enough playing time, or the support of Larry Brown. If you read interviews with after he went to Utah you'll hear about the fact that Brown was constantly telling him "You are not a jump shooter, you aren't here to score."

    Now Iverson is in need of scoring help, and look at how much Harpring is scoring in Utah! Harpring had said himslef that "If you are open, teammates will give you the ball, that didn't happen in Philly." Note that he said this while Stockton and Malone were STILL on the team.

    Brown messed up with that one.
     
  5. jbbKing James

    jbbKing James JBB Banned Member

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    Harp played well for Orlando as a rookie, just was not a good fit in that Philli system as allnet said.
     
  6. mike18946

    mike18946 JBB

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trail_Blazer76:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually if you re-read my previous post you'll see that I quoted allnet as asking; "what rookies or young talent had Brown not played." I never claimed that Harpring was a rookie in Philly, but he was a young talent.

    Anyway, Harpring is a prime example of a player who did not get enough playing time, or the support of Larry Brown. If you read interviews with after he went to Utah you'll hear about the fact that Brown was constantly telling him "You are not a jump shooter, you aren't here to score."

    Now Iverson is in need of scoring help, and look at how much Harpring is scoring in Utah! Harpring had said himslef that "If you are open, teammates will give you the ball, that didn't happen in Philly." Note that he said this while Stockton and Malone were STILL on the team.

    Brown messed up with that one.</div>

    Not enough playing time? Harpring got 31 minutes a game..Basically the same as he got in Utah last season.He shot 46% with the Sixers compared to his 51% last season at the Jazz.He just had a better overall season last year.Nothing to do with Brown.
     
  7. Trail_Blazer76

    Trail_Blazer76 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Valid point concerning the playing time.

    But please read the other stuff that I said. I wish I could find the interview, but according to Harpring Brown ruined his confidence. At halftime he would tell him not to shoot!

    Allnet, do you honestly believe that a 5% increase in Harpring's fg% resulted in a 6ppg increase? It isn't ONLY that he had a better year shooting-wise, but he got more shot attempts because Sloan (and his teammates) had more faith in him than Brown did.

    People say that Brown hates rookies/young players. Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. In Harpring's case Brown hindered his progress.
     
  8. mike18946

    mike18946 JBB

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trail_Blazer76:</div><div class="quote_post">Valid point concerning the playing time.

    But please read the other stuff that I said. I wish I could find the interview, but according to Harpring Brown ruined his confidence. At halftime he would tell him not to shoot!

    Allnet, do you honestly believe that a 5% increase in Harpring's fg% resulted in a 6ppg increase? It isn't ONLY that he had a better year shooting-wise, but he got more shot attempts because Sloan (and his teammates) had more faith in him than Brown did.

    People say that Brown hates rookies/young players. Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. In Harpring's case Brown hindered his progress.</div>

    On your first point.If Brown ruined his confidence he must of done that for a reason.The Sixers were and still are Allen Iverson's team.If Harpring thought he deserved more shots that would take away from AI then you can see Brown's point of view.Otherwise I don't understand why Brown would say such a thing.

    Your 2nd point.Playing with one of the best Ever point guards in the NBA (In my opinion the best) in John Stockton will help any player on the wing.Even though he was old Stock could still find you wherever you were on the court.As I said Harpring is in system that has suited his style of play.That just wasn't the case in Philly.Different players like to play different ways.Each coach has a different way of looking at the game with different systems.
     
  9. Trail_Blazer76

    Trail_Blazer76 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">On your first point.If Brown ruined his confidence he must of done that for a reason.The Sixers were and still are Allen Iverson's team.If Harpring thought he deserved more shots that would take away from AI then you can see Brown's point of view.Otherwise I don't understand why Brown would say such a thing.

    Your 2nd point.Playing with one of the best Ever point guards in the NBA (In my opinion the best) in John Stockton will help any player on the wing.Even though he was old Stock could still find you wherever you were on the court.As I said Harpring is in system that has suited his style of play.That just wasn't the case in Philly.Different players like to play different ways.Each coach has a different way of looking at the game with different systems.</div>

    Regardless of whether or not he did it for a reason, he did it the wrong way. Do you really think that Harpring was trying to make the team his? I see Brown's POV perfectly, but I don't think that what he did is right. Killing a player's confidence when they might be the future of your team is never good.

    Yeah, Harpring played well because he had John Stockton. Do you think that Carlos Aroyo is as good a pg as John Stockton was? Either do I! Yet Harpring is playing just as well with Aroyo as he did with Stockton!
     
  10. mike18946

    mike18946 JBB

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trail_Blazer76:</div><div class="quote_post">
    Yeah, Harpring played well because he had John Stockton. Do you think that Carlos Aroyo is as good a pg as John Stockton was? Either do I! Yet Harpring is playing just as well with Aroyo as he did with Stockton!</div>

    Thats because Aroyo is a true point guard who has been getting over 7 assists per game before his injury.It helps when you have a good point guard getting you shots to score.Harpring has worked hard and by doing that has improved his overall game.Scoring,shooting and rebounding.Thats why he is doing as good as he is.
     
  11. Trail_Blazer76

    Trail_Blazer76 JBB JustBBall Member

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    For the record, I am not just arguing this to be annoying. I think it is a good debate.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats because Aroyo is a true point guard who has been getting over 7 assists per game before his injury.</div>
    So what? Eric Snow is a true pg, who was also getting 7 assists back when Harpring was on the 6ers. Dont use the arguement that those assists were ALL going to AI, because we all know that AI creates for himself. Harpring played with Snow, but he wasn't doing this well.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Harpring has worked hard and by doing that has improved his overall game.Scoring,shooting and rebounding.Thats why he is doing as good as he is.</div>

    That's my point. Don't you think that if Brown had showed more confidence in Harpring, he would have worked harder in Philly. Larry's attitude caused them to lose a gem that would have played for little pay.
     
  12. mike18946

    mike18946 JBB

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So what? Eric Snow is a true pg, who was also getting 7 assists back when Harpring was on the 6ers. Dont use the arguement that those assists were ALL going to AI, because we all know that AI creates for himself. Harpring played with Snow, but he wasn't doing this well.</div>

    Snow is a good point guard don't get me wrong.However he is more of a defensive guy who likes to shut people down more than get the ball in the right place for his team-mates.For the record Snow was getting around 6 assists a game Harpring was in Philly.It is one thing getting assists It is something else getting the ball to team-mates for better postioning..If you know what I mean.I'm not trying to say Harpring is playing so good because of who he has at point guard.Of course it is important but MH has become much better at creating for himself the last few years.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's my point. Don't you think that if Brown had showed more confidence in Harpring, he would have worked harder in Philly. Larry's attitude caused them to lose a gem that would have played for little pay.</div>

    Maybe so,players go out to impressive their coach by showing confidence,heart and overall effort. When confidence isn't always installed into them.Just maybe Harpring didn't show enough of that for Larry Brown's liking.
     
  13. starman85

    starman85 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Harpring just had a breakout season in Utah because he fit better as the 2nd option to Malone then he did as the 2nd option to Iverson, which is understandable in Jerry Sloan/pick-and-roll offense. And because Stockton was a MUCH better pg than Eric Snow, no offense to Snow, and because with Arroyo running the O this year, Harp is the 1st option, which he never was in Phila.

    Brown did give some significant minutes to a couple of rookies in the 89-90 season, and they helped San Antonio get a division title and the then-biggest turnaround in league history. So I think we should end the 'Brown doesn't give young talent a chance' bit and focus on the real reason Darko isn't playing:

    He's not GOOD ENOUGH yet. Not that he won't be soon, but right now he's a 7 footer, a guy who should play either the 4 or 5, yet he's playing with Ben Wallace, Elden Campbell, Mehmet Okur, Zeljko Rebraca and Corliss Williamson, all guys who can make more of an impact than him.

    None of Brown's other young players ever played with so much depth at their positions. Being the 2nd pick doesn't give Darko some prerogative(sp) to play. He's gotta earn the minutes just like everyone else. I think that that's something he had a problem with even on Hemofarm(his European team), based on some of the scouting reports of his days there.
     

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