Ben Wallace had the best D-Rtg in NBA History that year in the regular season, and also had the best D-Rtg in NBA Playoff history. There is no way that Chauncey Billups was more valuable than Ben Wallace. He put up the greatest defensive season and post season in NBA history. That's much more valuable than what Billups did.
Would I trade Roy for Rose? Not a fucking chance, and I couldn't care less if Bulls fan wouldn't trade Rose for Roy.
Defensive Rating only tells a small story. Drating is also highly dependent on how good overall team defense is too. I think it was either Chauncey or Ben that was the most valuable I'm saying it was Sheed.
Box Score Efficiency Measurements Player Efficiency Rating (Higher is better) 1. LeBron James 31.76 2. Dwyane Wade 30.46 3. Chris Paul 30.04 4. Dwight Howard 25.44 5. Tim Duncan 24.51 6. Kobe Bryant 24.46 7. Brandon Roy 24.08 Overall Box Score Production Measurements Win Shares (Higher is better) 1. LeBron James 19.6 2. Chris Paul 17.5 3. Dwyane Wade 14.4 5. Dwight Howard 13.9 6. Kobe Bryant 13.1 7. Brandon Roy 12.7 Value Added (Higher is better) 1. LeBron James 969.2 2. Dwyane Wade 908.1 3. Chris Paul 853.2 4. Dwight Howard 624.8 5. Kobe Bryant 616.7 6. Brandon Roy 588.4 Estimated Wins Added (Higher is better) 1. LeBron James 32.3 2. Dwyane Wade 30.3 3. Chris Paul 28.4 4. Dwight Howard 20.8 5. Kobe Bryant 20.6 6. Brandon Roy 19.6 Overall Impact Measurements Roland Rating (Higher is better) 1. LeBron James +23.5 2. Dwyane Wade +17.9 3. Chris Paul +17.7 4. Kobe Bryant +12.6 5. Brandon Roy +12.5
Ben Wallace's D-Rtg was ~12 better than Billups, who he would logically play a lot of minutes with as they were both starters in the 2004 playoffs. I don't think people realize how great of a player Ben Wallace was. He was one of the best defenders in NBA history, probably the best in his prime. I think the 06-07 Bulls are a good case study. In 2006-2007, they put up one of the best defensive years in recent league history, leading the NBA in defense, a near 50 win team. That was with Wallace in a diminished state. Then the next year, with Wallace completely breaking down, the Bulls fell apart. (There was other things such as Hinrich turning into a pile of crap, Deng losing his offensive efficiency, and Nocioni turning into a selfish chucker as well). But Wallace's breakdown and the departure of P.J. Brown, which left the Bulls with a weakened interior defense is what really killed him. Ben Wallace with the Pistons? He was just amazing then. Billups was good, but a hall of fame defensive player, was much more important imo.
arguing over the most important Piston that year is stupid. That was a "TEAM"..5 guys could make the case for most important.
Win-share combines both offensive and defensive measurements - and Billups overall win-share was higher than Wallace's overall win-share - and it was the highest on that team.
Altering shots and intimidating guys from driving to the paint, and tipping out rebounds aren't measured by win shares, and those were all important staples of Wallace's game.
Really, why is that? Who was the last superstar PG to win a title, Isiah? John Stockton, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, etc. have zero NBA titles. Teams lead by superstar shooting guards (Jordan, Kobe and Wade) and big men (Duncan and Shaq) are winning all the titles. You have to go all the way back to 1990 to find an NBA champ that was lead to a title by a superstar PG. BNM
Closest you could come to is Tony Parker, and he's good, not superstar. Rockets won with Hakeem, Clyde (once) and supporting cast. Pistons were a rarity, winning with no true superstar. Boston, big 3 and a good, not stellar, point guard. This looks like another idiot Mixum provocation. You know the Blazers screwed up again. They only have the brightest young superstar in the diadem. BNM, as usual, makes sense. ONe of our more sensible posters.
Yep, Parker is an all-star, but so far hasn't even made 3rd team all-NBA. He was a very good player when the Spurs on their last title, but not a superstar. He may be pushing into superstar territory now, but the Spurs aren't winning any title without Timmy playing his best. Billups may, or may not, have been the best player on that Pistons championship team, but he averaged 16.9 PPG, 5.7 APG, shot 0.394 from the field and had a PER of 18.6 that season. Again a very good player, but not a superstar. BNM
I don't think so. But I do think he's probably around the top 10. He's more of an all around skills type guy than a specialist. Which is why he doesn't rate highly on most statistics other than derived ones such as PER.
Yep. I'd also say Roy is a top 5 clutch player in the NBA, and you can't deny him being the only all-star on a team with the youngest playing rotation in the NBA that won 54 games and has HCA in the 1st round. Those overall ratings mean more to me than just looking at PPG or APG or RPG because for someone like Roy who is good at everything, those stats might make people think that he isn't near the top... but bball is about an overall game on both sides of the court as well. Roy is the 7th best player in the NBA, imo. As for who i'd have on my team right now between Rose/Roy, I think its Roy easily, and I think it would be hard-pressed to argue against that. But for the future? Probably a toss-up. Roy is the safer bet, someone that will probably be in the top 7 players in the NBA for the next 5-7 years, but Rose has a higher ceiling (imo) and plays the PG position, which I do think is more important than the SG position (though that is debatable as well). This thing about his playoff debut is pretty cool as well, imo.
An article on nba.com rates the "crunch time" player on each playoff team in order from 1-16. Roy is #3, behind Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. Clearly this was written before Game 2, when we say exactly what he did against Artest and Battier with the game on the line and a chance to win.
^And then there is that ESPN article about Roy being the "Magnificient-7" where the writer said Roy is the 7th best player in the NBA I believe.
You think Rose has a higher ceiling than a player who's around 7th best (and who still has his own upside left)? What do you project for Rose, top-5 player? I can't see that...I don't think he's a LeBron/Paul/Howard/Kobe/Wade type of talent. I think ceiling is around Deron Williams, which is close to what Roy already is.
Yes, I do. I think Rose will probably be the 5th best player in the NBA, passing up Roy, Duncan and Kobe (as he ages). The kid is phenominal as a rookie. Factoring in his age, experience in the NBA, and all that stuff I think if he reaches his ceiling (and God knows how high that is, but I think it will be very high) he will be a phenominal player. I think Roy is probably decently close to his prime, but I also think his prime will last a long time because he doesn't rely as much on his athleticism but rather his mind and skills. I think he will definitley be better than Deron Williams. Comparing them at their respective ages isn't even close, comparing their rookie years isn't very close, comparing them with their physical gifts I think Rose also has the upper hand. And I think Roy is better than Williams (he definitely had the better year).
