Politics Democratic Socialism

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by magnifier661, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    What the program was and how it was implemented by the Bush Administration are two different things though.
     
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    If there were a material difference between the two, one would reasonably have expected that particular article to mention it. Do you have any links/articles indicating that the "C" portion of the program was not only neglected, but actively worked against, as you claimed?
     
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  3. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    First of all it's called ABC which means abstinence first. The NY article does state:

    U.S. Push for Abstinence in Africa Is Seen as Failure Against H.I.V.

    But then there's this:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564179/

    The Problems with A and B without C
    By focusing on individual behaviors, the ABC approach does not acknowledge the underlying factors that make people vulnerable to HIV/AIDS. The ABC strategies dismiss the real social, political, and economic causes of the epidemic, and end up blaming infected people, because it is implied that they failed to adopt and practice the ABCs. The ABC approach ignores vulnerable populations, such as sex workers and those who lack the ability to negotiate safe sex. It further fails to address non-heterosexual risk groups such as men who have sex with men and intravenous drug users.

    PEPFAR's ABC guidance contains rules for country teams to follow in developing and implementing their sexual prevention strategies, including parameters on the prevention messages that may be delivered to youths. Specifically, although funds may be used to deliver age-appropriate AB information to in-school youths, ages 10–14 years, the funds may not be used to provide information on condoms to these youths or distribute condoms in any school setting, let alone youth out of school. And yet as many as 16 percent of all women in Uganda have sex before the age of 15 years [49].

    The ABC campaign assumes abstinence will allow young women to focus on going to school, controlling their relationships, and becoming socially empowered, and yet it fails to acknowledge the social circumstances driving sex in the first place. Many sexual relationships include transactional or commercial sex, in order to pay for post-secondary schooling, to gain fi nancial independence from family obligations, or to provide adequate resources for those contained in IDP camps [50]. Encouraging abstinence, while at the same time excluding sexual education and protection against HIV, puts these girls at great danger of exploitation and ignorance, depriving them of the opportunity to learn the needed tools to approach sexuality in a healthy and informed manner.

    Ironically, by promoting marriage (Be faithful) as a prevention measure, this campaign negates one of the highest risk groups in Africa: monogamous, married women [50]. Surveys suggest a high incidence of extramarital sexual activity and STIs among some married men [50]. It is still widely believed in Uganda that women have no right to deny their husbands sex [51]. The assumption of the campaign that sex is a rational act and that women have the autonomy to choose abstinence ignores the forces behind the initiation of sex. The presumption that marriage is somehow protective is misleading and potentially dangerous for young women already deprived of proper sexual education.

    The enormous disservice done by the recent campaign to discourage condom use (due to the assumed link to promiscuity) cannot be overemphasized. The effectiveness of condom use for prevention of HIV/AIDS is the most likely explanation for Uganda's early successes [45]. Deemphasizing the importance of condom use has the serious potential to hurt local prevention efforts. A 2005 study by researchers at Makerere University and the AIDS Information Centre showed that Ugandans aged 19–25 years were more concerned about getting pregnant than becoming infected with HIV; when condoms were used, they were primarily considered contraceptive tools rather than protection against infections [52]. The confusion in young women and men who initially doubted the efficacy of condoms has only been amplified by these new efforts by the Ugandan government [49]
     
  4. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    So no @magnifier661 I don't sound like a loony. You know that Christians preach abstinence and always have. Republicans didn't even want to add the C part into the bill until Democrats added it as an amendment.
     
  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Interesting. I appreciate you posting that. Still a massive leap between that article and your earlier "AIDS IS ALL BUSH'S FAULT" post.
     
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  6. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    I tried to clarify that with the above post. Bottom line it was a waste of over 1.3 Billion as it did nothing but cause the spread of more HIV.
     
  7. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Wow, a politician's program wasted money. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!
     
  8. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    You sounding like a looney is when you spoke for all black people and blamed aids on Bush. Lol
     
  9. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    My contention is that he didn't want to do anything about it anyway. Say what you want but I don't believe for one second that he wanted to do anything about the AIDS epidemic in Africa. You don't teach people abstinence. You just don't. It's never worked and it's the reason why Texas (Republican Testing ground) has the highest teen pregnancy in the nation. Also, they were forced to add the condoms portion that they never wanted to add anyway. Besides the bottom line of money wasted it exacerbated the AIDS problem and my conspiracy theory is that that was the plan.
     
  10. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Usually if you want the opinion of black people you ask a black person instead of making it up as you go along. I also did clarify my statement about AIDS and bush. When Kanye said what he said he was speaking for the majority of us and it is true. I'm sure your one or two black friends can probably confirm it.
     
  11. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Newsflash... You don't speak for all black men or women. I don't speak for all Koreans. You are a fucking human being where no 2 people are alike, so don't give me some bullshit of how you know what your entire race believes because you're that color.
     
  12. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It's probably fair to say that you probably have a better grasp on how Koreans feel about certain subjects compared to say, Sly or myself.
     
  13. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Good point... I definitely think dviss has a much better clue of the culture of African Americans.
     
  14. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    That would be a faulty assumption.

    I am white. I do not have a clue as to how most of the other whites feel about anything, or, why they feel that way, unless they explain it to me in way that is understandable.

    Everyone’s view is unique to them, regardless of their race.

    If this internet is teaching us anything at all, it should be that forming any opinion that is based on a group membership, be it race, religion, political opinion, sex, nationality, social class, disability, language, or nationality, is a form of prejudice.

    So stop being prejudice, there is a person on this site that is very well known for hating it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
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  15. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    "better grasp" ≠ knowing

    I'm saying that someone who is of a certain race/religious beliefs etc, probably has a better idea what their fellow (whatever) thinks.
     
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  16. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    Belonging to a group does not guarantee you know what others in your group think. How do you know what anyone else thinks unless they tell you?

    Any un-informed opinion you form based on a group membership is a pure assumption on your part.

    Speaking for others without knowing what they think is wrong. The more I see on the internet, the more I understand the odds that 2 people within the same group will agree on any subject related to the group is very often only 50%.

    We all belong to a group membership known as Blazer fans. But how often do we agree on Blazer related issues? We never all agree, and often we are split near 50-50. Now how often does our group agree on non-Blazer topics? Probably never.

    If you live with a person, or, work 8 hours a day with a person, you get to know them and what they really think, and why. Put to assume you know what others think because they are in the same group as you is irresponsible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
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  17. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If most of my friends are conservative (and I am too), and I spend most of my time with them talking politics, I probably have a good idea what the average conservative feels/thinks.

    Here's a few examples.

    I'm willing to bet that most progressives/liberals actually prefer Bernie over Hillary.

    I'm willing to bet that most Blazer fans dislike the Lakers, are fans of Damian, like the uniforms and don't want the team to move out of Portland.


    If you spend most of your time among people that are homogeneous in nature, chances are you'll get a good idea about certain beliefs.

    I.E., if someone who is black, has been black their entire life, spends more of their time around other black people, talks more with people who are black than other races, chances are they have a good idea what a portion of black people believe about a certain subject or thing.

    And if it makes someone feel uncomfortable that I used black, change it for another name (gay, white, asian, female, latino, Laker fans).
     
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  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He sent over there several $billions. $20M was for abstinence programs to please the republican congress.

    You seriously need to get a grip on the facts.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Before the plan, 100,000 people in Africa were getting AIDS meds. By the time Bush left, several million were getting meds.

    Sounds exactly like he doesn't like black people.
     
  20. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    I understand your view, and will admit your Blazer example has minor merit (capt. obvious). I will give you a like for that point.

    However, I still disagree with you on all other points. How can you form an opinion about liberals by talking to a small group of conservative friends? If you had said, this is what such and such poll reports, now your opinion has some credibility.

    There maybe very limited subjects were a group has formed a consensus opinion, such as your Blazer example. But the consensus ends after a very short list of issues.

    You are trying to turn un-informed opinions into facts, and that is wrong.
     

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