Reminds me of my first visit to Buffalo. When I went there some years back, I was taken back by how much of the city of Buffalo is now just abandoned. I know Detroit may have other issues. But as far as a town that was once a bustling steel city with quite a life, it was strange to see it outlive the size it had grown to. There were big office buildings (not high rise, but still like 8-10 stories) that were just abandoned with the windows broken out and graffiti on them. There were abandoned stripped cars literally on the shoulder of the main road, that looked to have been there for months if not years with the rust. Driving through that section of Buffalo was like driving straight into a Hollywood post apocalyptic movie set.
Unions are just a collection of workers... and the workers themselves are responsible for what the union does... and I would agree that in some cases unions definitely did themselves in. My father worked at Boeing just about his entire life. He had great benefits... and maybe at some point they were against injustice... but after I started working at Boeing also (non union) I saw a completely different picture. I saw lazy workers that were more interested in fighting the company to do less work or saving jobs, than to helping the company be more efficient and profitable. Most of them would put tools in a machine that was programmed to do certain work… then press a button and read a book. I long time ago it was a much more manual process I am sure. Whenever the company would try to do something like get them to press the button on two machines at once… they would fight it tooth and nail. And then there was the striking… ever 4-8 years they would strike just because it was cool to do. Shut the whole manufacturing down for a few months for exactly the same benefits they would have had without the strike. Not to mention that for people who didn’t finish high school… they were making some good money… many of them approaching 6 figures with OT… and oh yeah… there would be OT… because they would all call in sick on Friday… (or just do almost no work) so they would have to be brought in on the weekends where they made 2-3 times pay. Anyway… I think the company eventually got tired of the routine and when it came time to big on the future… the 787 work… the unions finally lost big time and most of the work was outsourced. The unions I am sure would scream injustice! Travesty! But damn… you have to have workers that are interested in being productive. More than once I heard works complain with stuff like “I ain’t touching no computer!” They were too stubborn to learn new skills to make themselves competitive. But the bottom line comes down to that there are people with the same education level elsewhere that will do the same job for cheaper, the jobs will eventually move. ANYway… Detroit I definitely see as some place that had a lot of manual jobs that would eventually be replaced by robots and automation… and that is sad. There are still jobs… but the jobs are different and you have to be able to go with the flow… update your skills. To me it just seems like common sense… but to my father who had been doing the same thing for 40 years… he fought any change tooth and nail. Wow… long winded way to say I agree… unions do share some blame… but the workers are the union.
I had a connection last summer on my way to Toronto. So I did not see the actual city. But flying in low over the surrounding area you can't help but understand why everyone with money migrated to the the extended suburbs. With all the lakes and trees and large "estates" it is really a beautiful area. (In the summer)
I just had a talk with my boss's boss. He was born & raised in Detroit, went to ND and then worked in Detroit until he was 34 before moving out west. Here are his thoughts on how Detroit got to be what it is today: 1) Unions. When they kept forcing salaries and benefits way past what was reasonable (his brother makes over $100/hr in the UAW, and people can have a full retirement at age 48...) the auto manufacturers had to cut too many corners and it was a slippery slide down. Work was out sourced, all non essential personnel was laid off as unions yellow-dogged hard, costing tens of millions more to the companies. Now, whole plants had to be moved to further cut non personnel. In addition, aggressive unions caused hundreds of businesses to move or shut down with outrageous demands and constant work stoppages. 2) Changes in government. He makes it clear that minorities are NOT corrupt, per se, but that the transition to minority government was so swift and on such a large scale that they had no experience in how to govern. It was a 'learn as one goes' thing and corruption became the order of the day. That corruption grew and grew and spread out to the point that the system was too corrupt to change. This cost hundreds of millions of dollars to the area yearly. 3) The best & brightest left town. When things started tanking the best & brightest of the core business leaders left the area. This created more unemployment, that led to more corruption, that led to more decayed neighborhoods... 4) Location. It's hard to locate new business in an area that has such harsh winters. Moving goods and services becomes more expensive and time consuming. Anyway, those are thoughts from someone who grew up and worked there.
I think this one is the real key. The only reason industry blossomed there in the first place was access to steel, coal and the shipping lanes of the Great Lakes. Those logistical reasons were great for the auto industry, but not exactly big draws for modern growth industries (tech, finance, medicine). If our auto industry had emerged in Florida or Southern California, all the other problems you cited would be overcome. Miami wouldn't look like a war zone just because the auto industry collapsed. The parts of the country that grow have access to quality-of-life resources. Major cultural centers, beaches, sun, skiing, hiking. The areas that don't wither on the vine, and really they should. Why would anybody in their right mind encourage growth in Detroit when there are more fun ways to live in NYC, Portland, Denver, etc.? If you have a highly productive part of your garden, and the neighborhood cats suddenly decide to shit all over it, and you have a better plot of land elsewhere on your property, should you really waste time fighting the cats because you used to get good vegetables out of that plot of land years ago? Or should you shrug and just garden where it's easy and nice and doesn't smell like cat shit?
I visited Miami once and parts did look like a war zone. =) I don't know if the trash collectors were on strike or what... but there were 50 foot mounds of garbage piled in all the parking lots everywhere.
Look up East St. Louis. Make Detroit look like paradise. Or at least it's comparable and has been that way for a lot longer.
Right not globalization and the CEO's who made the decision to outsource jobs over seas. They are completely blameless for moving jobs out of America and to our enemy China. Very patriotic those CEO's. If CEO's can get together and figure out how to fuck over workers, then workers can get together and figure out how to get a decent slice of the pie. Without Unions we'd still have child labor, 7 day work weeks and 12 hour days. Were high wages part of the problem? Perhaps, but the greed of big companies weighs FAR more heavily into things.
For every example of a corrupt union with lazy workers I can point to 10,000 businesses that treat their employees like shit and squeeze every cent of labor out of them. I don't dispute that there are lazy workers in various unionized businesses and that's a sad statement about America today, an attitude of entitlement. That said it's simply the pendulum swinging the other way from 100's of years of extreme exploitation of workers. The pendulum needs to swing back and America has to get a blue collar hard working mentality back. Unfortunately, things will likely have to get much worse before they get better. CEO's getting such ridiculous wages for sending jobs to China etc. isn't noble either. The fact is America has gone way downhill as far as personal integrity and work ethic regardless of the strata of society. We're gonna learn the hard way what results from that.
I agree with you that it is very sad that many companies now put profits and shareholders over their own employees. I see it all the time. It used to be that you knew if you worked hard and did an outstanding job, you knew you would always have a job. Not so anymore. Boeing reorganized so many times it was like musical chairs... every few years someone else coming in randomly moving things around without regards to what it really did to the people at the bottom. Now re outsourcing... I know Boeing didn't just do it for profit. They tried for a long time to work with the unions to be able to be profitable... but they were fought every step of the way... and some of the work that was outsourced (much of it in the US by the way... I don't remember anything going to China) ended up coming back to them. Turns out the the processes the FAA requires you to follow when making parts for planes is very rigid... and many of the places they outsourced work to were less than steller. Sometimes you get what you pay for. =) I wouldn't say American workers suck ... we are the most productive workers on the planet and there are all kinds of benefits to NOT outsourcing work... and some companies are learning lessons now. The things I have personally seen where 1) shoddy work 2) communication barriers 3) poor worker productivity. I work personally with people all around the globe... and American's care for more about their work than I see in other countries.
It truly is a amazing what a wasteland such a major metropolitan city has become. I'm fascinated by watching these beautiful downtown football and baseball stadiums on TV filled with people paying a ton of money to be there, and then contrast that with reports that there are 20,000 abandoned homes in that city. How is it that Detroit has the money for such fantastic sports facilities, and we can't even build a minor league ballpark?
I think that might be a pretty good example of badly prioritizing government energy. I'm as big a sports fan as the next guy, but if I were forced to live in Detroit I'd be voting for politicians who focus on education and infrastructure.
Believe it or not, Michigan is one of the biggest vacation draws in the country. Surrounded on all sides by fresh water, boating in the summer, skiing, snowmobiling and icefishing (if that's your thing) in the winter. Put that in your "location" pipe and smoke it. And mook, don't you live in Idaho, fer chrissakes?
As for Detroit, yes, it is an urban hellhole, but there are great parts of it (Ferndale, Royal Oak, Grosse Pointe, et. al.).
Do you have a link for that? I'm just curious if there's a stat on that somewhere or you're from the area and just giving a defensive statement. Personally as someone whose been around, I've known a lot of people to visit Las Vegas, California (in general), Florida, Arizona, Texas, New Orleans, Alaska, national parks of the west (Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Zion, Rushmore, etc.), some parts to midwest, but primarily Chicago, and then in general to the NE (NY or Boston). But throughout my life and living and travelling around this nation, I've rarely heard anyone say they were going to Michigan for a vacation. Maybe some folks from the midwest when I was in the midwest, but never out East or on the West coast. And even then most seemed to make Upper Peninsula of Michigan a vacation destination. Never heard anywhere that Detroit or the surrounding mainland was a good place to take a vacation. But then I've also never heard anyone say they wanted to vacation to West Virginia or Rhode Island and a handful of other spots, so maybe I just missed it.
lol. Really? Biggest draws in the nation? Come on, you have to back that up with some stats. I've never met anybody who proudly declares, "I'm going to Michigan this summer! (or winter!)" So it's got lakes and snow (few mountains, but snow). Gosh, that puts it pretty much on par with about 35 or so other states. I have met more than a few people, including Bruce Willis, who have vacation residences in Sun Valley, Idaho. And really quite a few internet startups came out of Idaho (bodybuilder.com being probably the most famous). A lot of the people who did so were drawn to Idaho's mountains. There's more roadless wilderness here than any US state outside Alaska. Tourism is actually a pretty big money maker in this state now. Hunting, skiing, fishing, whitewater rafting. Not huge total dollars, but per capita quite a bit. There are only about 1.3 million people here, so you don't have to have a lot of tourists before it makes a big difference.
I've been there several times. Its absolutely horrible, the whole city is pretty much boarded up. My uncle was always leary of driving through because as a white guy you stick out like a sore thumb. The thing about it is, the state of Illinois could give two shits about the St. Louis suburb.
Bodybuilding.com has regional warehouses in different areas of the U.S. I know whenever I order something from the site it comes from Idaho, unless its out of stock it comes from Florida. I didn't realize that the site was started in Idaho though. Random.
