^Exactly...I'll never buy into that argument about team a is garbage without this player, but team b is still good without this player.I mean the difference between one of the top 3 teams in the league and the 7th seed in the West is a big drop...so even if I did believe that argument, I'd still go Dirk over Kobe, since both teams would be drastically worse than they are now without either player.
Woah there, i agree with most of what you said, except Dirk is DEFINATELY not a better passer, and while Dirk is more efficient, he is far too one dimensional. Even T-Mac stopped him last year in playoffs, any athletic big can. He was stopped again by marion in 2nd round.And Dirk is soft defensively, and definately not better than Kobe defensively. Kobe has been on All NBA defensive first teams. Dirk isn't anywhere close to that.
Whoa there guy!Your still living on old ASSumptions of Dirk and the Mavs as a whole.Even a defensive minded coach, Stan Van Gundy, has praised Dirk's defensive ability this year especially.He's not soft, and is pretty effictive, when he plays it, especially as an off the ball guy that has active hands, and is always stripping the ball and knocking it away.Dirk is not one dementional, he can post or shoot from outside. Just because there's a few guys(I mean it's not like anyone but 3 guys have ever really stopped him anyways) doens't mean he's an ineffective offensive player.I mean how many times has Kobe been shut down? There are lots of times when he's been off his game too, and noone says he's a one dimentional.And Kobe is a decent to good defensive player, but he's not a shut down guy and gets on the all nba defensive team on hype mostly.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 26 2006, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Whoa there guy!Your still living on old ASSumptions of Dirk and the Mavs as a whole.Even a defensive minded coach, Stan Van Gundy, has praised Dirk's defensive ability this year especially.He's not soft, and is pretty effictive, when he plays it, especially as an off the ball guy that has active hands, and is always stripping the ball and knocking it away.Dirk is not one dementional, he can post or shoot from outside. Just because there's a few guys(I mean it's not like anyone but 3 guys have ever really stopped him anyways) doens't mean he's an ineffective offensive player.I mean how many times has Kobe been shut down? There are lots of times when he's been off his game too, and noone says he's a one dimentional.And Kobe is a decent to good defensive player, but he's not a shut down guy and gets on the all nba defensive team on hype mostly.</div>First of all, it was Jeff Van Gundy who praised him for improving, not Stan. Secondly, Dirk is a shooter. Period. A tall shooter. He can't drive it to basket very effectively, and the jumpshot is all he has got.Kobe can drive, shoot, and playmake. I used T-Mac and Marion as examples as they are long and fast for forwards. Anyone who fits that critera can stop Dirk.Not a shutdown guy? Did you see that video of his in the media section with all of his defensive plays. He has had seasons of averaging over 2 steals per game, shutdown T-Mac in last quarter after T-Mac dropped over 30 on Devean George. He shutdown MJ (yes, as a Wizard) and then scored 40 on him in first half. He shutdown Iverson in NBA finals when on him. And he got on all NBA defensive team because he is still one of the 2-3 best defensive swingmen in the league.I am done with you as well, as you have no credibility. Look at your post in BBW awards:Regular Season MVP: DirkRegular Season DPY: MarionRegular Season 6th: Jerry StackhouseRegular Season Rookie of the Year: Chris Paul, duh.Regular Season MIP: DiopRegular Season Coach: Avery Johnson4 of the 6 are on Mavs, and Marion is Nash's teammate, who you like probably because he was on Mavs. Sorry man, this shot down all credibility you ever had.
Okay, so your going to say I have no credabiltiy when you make dumb comments as well?Dirk can't drive like Kobe? Hello 7 foot PF, Kobe a 6'6 SG, the fact that Dirk can drive at all gives him and edge. Kobe cand drive, shoot, and playmake...hello, so can Dirk. He's been doing it for a while now, especially since the Mavs have lost Nash.Look, if you've followed me around, as evidently you do, I've said Kobe is the best allaround player in the game, and I'd take him over almost anyone...but he's not the MVP of the league, and definately not over Dirk as far as it's concerned this year.Okay so I did say Stan instead of Jeff, but I'll take either's word over your Kobe love fest.And how can you say I lost credibility for my picks for the nba awards. Everyone I said is legitimate at their positions.Dirk is my MVP, Marion is my DPOY, Stack is the best 6th man, Avery is the coach of the year to me, Chris Paul is the ROY, and I think Diop is the MIP.Care to actually argue with me over why I picke them? It's my opinion, and it's not like I said Rawle Marshall was the ROY, or Josh Howard was the DPOY, or Rawle Marshall was the ROY...now that would be justifiable as losing my crediability.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Dirk is my MVP, Marion is my DPOY, Stack is the best 6th man, Avery is the coach of the year to me, Chris Paul is the ROY, and I think Diop is the MIP.Care to actually argue with me over why I picke them? It's my opinion, and it's not like I said Rawle Marshall was the ROY, or Josh Howard was the DPOY, or Rawle Marshall was the ROY...now that would be justifiable as losing my crediability.</div>It's probably that there are better players for the MIP, like David West for the award. Diop's numbers are not worthy of anything. He's definately shown more then his time in Cleveland, but he ain't lighting it up in Dallas. The gap West has done compared to Diop, it's not close.And please, Stack 6th man? A guy who didn't play for almost half the season. And has been in a slump for half of the 2nd. Avery and Dirk are the only Mavs worthy of winning their awards.
Stack missed 25 games...not half the season...it wasn't like he came back for 2 weeks before the end of the season.And as for Diop, he was labeled a bust in Cleveland, and his signing was almost an afterthought...he's the starting center for a top 3 team.I mean that's enough of a reason to have him in the discussion, and since i see him more than any of thoe guys, it's just my opinion.
[quote name='Marvinmartian' post='24443' date='Mar 26 2006, 11:26 PM']Okay, so your going to say I have no credabiltiy when you make dumb comments as well?[/quote]You're the only one making dumb comments. Umm no, it gives him no edge. Kobe is lightning quick and has a near 40 inch vertical jump, and extremely agile, and can finish in so many different ways. Dirk isn't fast, and can't finish at basket like Kobe can. Dirk can't drive well, and definately can't playmake. Terry took over that position when Nash left. Kobe was the playmaker for the championship LA teams. Wow, you make it seem like Dirk deserves an award with more meaning than MVP, as you say he is not MVP, then go to extreme by saying is definately not over Dirk. Look at everyone laughing at you whos ays I love Kobe or Lakers. Hell, even BALLAHOLIC laughed at you. Diop is far from MIP, Stack is far from 6th man. Avery Johnson is leading Mavs to record very similar to when Nellie was around. I still don't think Dirk deserves to be top 3 MVP's, although he will end up only being behind Nash and Kobe (I guarentee it). And I definately disagree with Marion as DPOY, although that is a little justified.
Regular Season MVP: Dirk (agreed)Regular Season DPY: Marion (Bowen)Regular Season 6th: Jerry Stackhouse (Mike Miller)Regular Season Rookie of the Year: Chris Paul, duh. (Don't keep track.) Regular Season MIP: Diop (Could be but there is probably someone else better)Regular Season Coach: Avery Johnson (I'd say possibly)Even though I disagree with some of his picks I don't think he lost his credibility with it.
It don't matter Mavsfan, Nitro has a vendatta or something agaisnt me now cause I dont' agree with him.Mainly because I don't agree with him.He's lost credability with me, just like I have with him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 27 2006, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You're the only one making dumb comments.Umm no, it gives him no edge. Kobe is lightning quick and has a near 40 inch vertical jump, and extremely agile, and can finish in so many different ways. Dirk isn't fast, and can't finish at basket like Kobe can. Dirk can't drive well, and definately can't playmake. Terry took over that position when Nash left. Kobe was the playmaker for the championship LA teams.Wow, you make it seem like Dirk deserves an award with more meaning than MVP, as you say he is not MVP, then go to extreme by saying is definately not over Dirk. Look at everyone laughing at you whos ays I love Kobe or Lakers. Hell, even BALLAHOLIC laughed at you.Diop is far from MIP, Stack is far from 6th man. Avery Johnson is leading Mavs to record very similar to when Nellie was around. I still don't think Dirk deserves to be top 3 MVP's, although he will end up only being behind Nash and Kobe (I guarentee it). And I definately disagree with Marion as DPOY, although that is a little justified.</div>MAN, NO OFFENSE, BUT KOBE!?!?!?I HAVE A MAVS HOMER MIND, BUT EVEN I KNOW THAT TO KNOW WHO IS THE MVP, YOU NEED TO THINK LIKE AN MVP VOTER.AN MVP VOTER WOULD NOT VOTE KOBE 2ND ON A CONSISTENT BASIS.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Stack missed 25 games...not half the season...it wasn't like he came back for 2 weeks before the end of the season.And as for Diop, he was labeled a bust in Cleveland, and his signing was almost an afterthought...he's the starting center for a top 3 team.I mean that's enough of a reason to have him in the discussion, and since i see him more than any of thoe guys, it's just my opinion.</div>I said almost missed half the season. And when did 2 weeks before the end mean half?And on Diop, big deal he starts. He's only starting so Dampier doesn't pick up cheap fouls and can come in aggressive as opposed to picking up quick touch fouls and sitting when he starts.For a starter, he plays less then his backup Dampier. Like I said big deal.And your final statement proves why you shouldn't comment on certain things if you don't watch other teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 26 2006, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It don't matter Mavsfan, Nitro has a vendatta or something agaisnt me now cause I dont' agree with him.Mainly because I don't agree with him.He's lost credability with me, just like I have with him.</div>I have a vendetta with you same reason I have a vendetta against Laker fan/Kobe fans. Your vision is warped, and because of your vision being warped, your award picks are warped and heavily favor mavs, and most of the awards those Mavs shouldn't even be candidates for.
I think Diop is MIP. I mean, he even lost 50 in the off-season!!Coach of the Year:1. Flip Saunders2. Avery Johnson3. Greg PoppovichMVP: 1. Dirk Nowitzki/Steve Nash2. Steve Nash/Dirk Nowitzki3. Chauncey Billups/Dwyane WadeSixth Man:1. Mike Miller2. Jerry StackhouseMost Improved Player:1. DESAGANA DIOP!!Defense Player of the Year:1. Shawn Marion2. Ben Wallace3. Bruce BowenRookie of the Year:1. OBVIOUSLY Chris Paul
So I can't comment on something cause, even though this is a thread where it's all about our opinions, and I don't sit here and watch every team in the league.Noone else does either...and stop trying to say I'm a homer, I have my opinoins, it doesn't make me homer, any more than a guy who thinks his teams players are good enough to win some awards.I mean since when did having an opinion get you ridiculed.I haven't said nothing bad about anyone, and Nitro has said I made dumb comments and lost credability.If that's what this sites about, I don't need it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I think Diop is MIP. I mean, he even lost 50 in the off-season!!</div>Weight loss is key in winning Most Improved Player. Jenny Craig sponsors the award right?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>So I can't comment on something cause, even though this is a thread where it's all about our opinions, and I don't sit here and watch every team in the league.Noone else does either...and stop trying to say I'm a homer, I have my opinoins, it doesn't make me homer, any more than a guy who thinks his teams players are good enough to win some awards.</div>Because there are other players in the league other then Mavs who might let me think, be better. If you don't know other teams, how can you comment on something that pertains to other teams?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 27 2006, 05:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have a vendetta with you same reason I have a vendetta against Laker fan/Kobe fans. Your vision is warped, and because of your vision being warped, your award picks are warped and heavily favor mavs, and most of the awards those Mavs shouldn't even be candidates for.</div>You're warped because you go by what ESPN is feeding you. Examples are Dirk is soft, Kobe is God, and etc. If I listenrf to ESPN a lot than I would feel the same way. I actually watch the games and feel Dirk does a lot more for the mavs than credited for. He isn't the best slasher but being 7 feet he can shoot over everyone. Unless you get right under him your defense won't matter because of the height differential. He can get athletic big man off balance enough to get jumpers off also.
I never said I don't watch other teams...the MIP players, at least they guys ya'll are saying, I dont' see them much.But once again, my opinion doesn't mean jack, and what you think does.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 27 2006, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So I can't comment on something cause, even though this is a thread where it's all about our opinions, and I don't sit here and watch every team in the league.Noone else does either...and stop trying to say I'm a homer, I have my opinoins, it doesn't make me homer, any more than a guy who thinks his teams players are good enough to win some awards.I mean since when did having an opinion get you ridiculed.I haven't said nothing bad about anyone, and Nitro has said I made dumb comments and lost credability.If that's what this sites about, I don't need it.</div>You can comment on it, but when you comment on a topic like this and try to make a credible arguement, it is a little ridiculous. If you were more fair with everything, than it'd be a better debate.Mavsfan- I do watch ESPN, but I also look at the stats. I also watch games on NBA LP. I also listen to articles from different sites. I come here and listen to you guys. Bottom line is defensively, Dirk still can't stop elite players. Bottom line is Kobe is having the best season statistically since MJ, and is leading a crap team to 7th seed in playoffs, while setting historic landmarks. Bottom line is T-Mac is god, not Kobe :rock: As for Dirk, all it takes is an atheltic swingman to guard him. T-Mac and Marion proved my point. If you can get a hand in his face, it is over for Dirk.
