Divergent views on wealth distribution

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by maxiep, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    I can see what you are saying, but I think 200 billion dollars a year is a great start.

    I saw a great article that said we should try going to the Clinton rates and Gingrich spending levels (1999)
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    At Gingrich spending levels alone, we'd be running a surplus and able to pay off some of the debt.

    We might be close to surplus at W's 2005 spending level.
     
  3. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    What I'd like to see is a 30-50 year plan to pay our debt to zero.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The debt actually grew under Clinton because the excess SS funds had to be invested somewhere and that somewhere happened to be T-Bills. And I'm sure you know that every T-Bill sold adds to the debt.

    It isn't going to happen anymore, since SS is running a deficit (if not now, soon).
     
  5. Klinky

    Klinky Seal Of Approval

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    This isn't very hard to figure out. Finding a monetary sweet spot for anything is hard. It could be a tax rate or a price for a product or service. You can price yourself too low & you can price yourself too high. You can set taxes too high or taxes too low. You can't hike tax rates forever, just like you can't expect home prices to boom forever.

    I am glad you consider real world data akin to a Skinner Box...

    They came to the conclusion that it's possible to price something too high or too low? Isn't that a pretty basic economic assumption? My point was that capital gains tax revenue has more to do with the general health of the economy rather than the tax rate. Lowering capital gains taxes in a poor economy doesn't mean the economy is going to rebound or raise capital gains tax revenue in the short-term or long-term. If the economy does rebound in an unexpected fashion, it might be because of a bubble forming rather than sustainable growth.

    Profit is considered income. I think capital gains taxes shouldn't affect those below a certain income threshold, but no tax on any capital gains just creates a shelter. If the majority of your income comes from capital gains then you'd pay pretty close to $0 in taxes while everyone working 9 - 5 would be footing the bill.

    Bush was running a deficit in 2005. Outlays were $2.47 trillion in 2005. Government revenue for 2010 & 2011 is estimated at $2.16 trillion & $2.17 trillion respectively. If we stuck to W's spending levels, didn't have an economic meltdown & weren't fighting two wars, perhaps we'd be in surplus town.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Now look at revenues for 2007. Obama didn't want to let a good crisis go to waste, and he's so hostile to the private sector, he drove down GDP and thus revenues.
     
  7. Klinky

    Klinky Seal Of Approval

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    It would be nice if imaginary home values could be sustained forever...

    Revenue was already down to $2.1 trillion by 2009.
     
  8. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    [video=youtube;bU6m5UqLx9M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU6m5UqLx9M[/video]
     
  9. Klinky

    Klinky Seal Of Approval

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    Hey you're the one saying that you don't understand how capital gains tax rates affect tax revenue & are just going off of what some unnamed smartypants economic geniuses have said... It would appear you also need the help of Seinfeld to do your insults for you too... Hmm...
     
  10. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Once again you're missing the point. I'm trying to be nicer in here, so why don't we just drop it.
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...2-trillion-in-debt_n.htm?loc=interstitialskip

    U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions

    The federal government's financial condition deteriorated rapidly last year, far beyond the $1.5 trillion in new debt taken on to finance the budget deficit, a USA TODAY analysis shows.

    The government added $5.3 trillion in new financial obligations in 2010, largely for retirement programs such as Medicare and Social Security. That brings to a record $61.6 trillion the total of financial promises not paid for.

    This gap between spending commitments and revenue last year equals more than one-third of the nation's gross domestic product.

    Medicare alone took on $1.8 trillion in new liabilities, more than the record deficit prompting heated debate between Congress and the White House over lifting the debt ceiling.

    Social Security added $1.4 trillion in obligations, partly reflecting longer life expectancies. Federal and military retirement programs added more to the financial hole, too.

    Corporations would be required to count these new liabilities when they are taken on — and report a big loss to shareholders. Unlike businesses, however, Congress postpones recording spending commitments until it writes a check.

    The $61.6 trillion in unfunded obligations amounts to $527,000 per household. That's more than five times what Americans have borrowed for everything else — mortgages, car loans and other debt. It reflects the challenge as the number of retirees soars over the next 20 years and seniors try to collect on those spending promises.
     

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