One more time I simply feel the first 12 games being a foot note or not isn’t a great barometer. Nor is last year or the year before that or the year before that or the year before that even. I would like to see what this team as assembled can do for an extended period of time together if they are all healthy. Simple. Maybe we could see 20-30 games? I would enjoy seeing that. Hope we get a chance?
You took that the wrong direction. It's not that Dame is shoot-first, it's that he doesn't have point guard instincts when trapped. Teams trap him because he's bad at countering it, not because he's the only weapon the floor.
well, if you don't believe that 9 years of Stotts/Olshey, & 6 years of Dame/CJ have any relevance to this year's team there is not much to discuss in the 9 years of the Olshey/Stotts teams, Portland is averaging 45.5 wins, a .555 winning percentage; and an anemic .357 winning percentage in the playoffs. The Dame/CJ teams are averaging 45.2 wins with a .393 rate in the playoffs that looks a lot like what you'd expect mediocrity to look like. But whatever it's called, the trajectory seems pretty damn constant. I don't know why the results would be different this year because Aminu/Harkless have been replaced by RoCo/Jones or Curry/Turner/Layman have been replaced by Ant/Trent/Melo. Role players just don't alter the trajectory of a team that much, but sure, maybe....finally...things will be different this year
That's really not how I want to spend my time as a fan. It's cool that you do but when you say that we can't use four seasons to base player movement on... you've completely lost me. I have seen that every time that Dame and CJ are together, they are less effective offensive players than they are when they play apart. They are also one of the worst defensive back courts I've ever seen from a team that makes the playoffs. I don't know why we have to keep seeing it. No one is saying trade CJ for someone who can't create offense. Do we need to start a second small guard who should be playing PG, next to Dame? No. The fact is if they will fire Stotts and see what someone else can do with the Dame/CJ back court, I'd not like it but at least the team would have a leg to stand on but I'm not down with your idea of wait and see for five years because of injuries. I do not think we will see what another coach can do with Dame and CJ because I think eventually (hopefully soon) Olshey will get fired. I think any GM that takes over will fire Stotts and cash in CJ for what he can get. Only time will tell but if you couldn't tell, this team is testing my patience.
For the record, I'll keep commenting on CJ trade stuff and fire Stotts stuff but there is only one thing that matters and it's the first thing that has to happen for this team to stop treading water and swim towards a championship. FIRE OLSHEY!!!
Exactly! Dame and CJ both have mediocre to bad defense and mediocre distribution skills/breaking trap instincts. When they're on the floor together, there's enough collective distribution/braking trap instincts and defenses can't cheat off of either of them and you can play guys like Harkless/Aminu/Roco/Jones with them. I note that Carmelo helps a little in this respect (this is why Dame likes having him out there with him and that's when we get the best from him as a screen setter with Dame - he can either pick and pop or roll down to post up the little guy, he's just a disaster w/o Dame OR with Kanter). When only one of them is out there, you need the 2/3/4 to fill the gap of defense and playmaking while having a trusty enough shot to keep the defense honest. The issue is that 3/4s like that are $100M a year guys. I see three solutions, in order of difficulty acquiring. Get a good back-up PG that plays D (e.g., Rubio) so that both of them can spend 10-15 mpg off ball and dedicate more energy to playing defense. Get a third guy like them (e.g., Bogdanovic) so you always have two out there to share the load in Stotts' flow offense then get more rangy/defensive 3/4s. Maybe there's a way to send Trent to Atlanta and get back Bogdanovic in a three-way trade. IDK. Get an expensive guy at 3 that can guard the best backcourt player on the other team, handle the ball, and keep the defense honest enough to not kill floor spacing. The prototype would be Jrue Holiday IMO. Good luck with that one. I think the team hoped Hood would provide some of this, and he was before the injury (less so on defense). For kicks and giggles, Trent/Hood/Giles for Bogdanovic works but obviously Atlanta would need sweetener. I think that's too rich for Rubio. Lillard/Bogdanovic CJ/Bogdanovic Jones/Little Roco/Melo Nurk/Kanter I actually think that would work well, just make sure not to play Melo and Kanter at the same time ever.
But you haven't had this team for 4 years. Not at all. Let me clear something here. I happen to feel this team "If HEALTHY" and on the court could very well be the best team we have seen in 20 years. I think it's better than the Roy Aldridge teams. I think it's better than the Aldridge, Rolo, Batum Mathews, Lillard team. It most certainly has more talent than the last four years If Healthy. You were here. You know what happened last year. You know what happened the year before. You also know what happened at the end of the year before that. You also know they had no business whatsoever making the playoffs 4 years ago. I don't have to fill in the blanks here. We all are seeing this team right now without THREE starters (Not two like many are saying). You put this team as assembled together and have them play 20 games with Nurk, CJ and Collins on this team with Lillard, Roco, Jones, Trent, Simons, Melo, Hood, Kanter and Little,Giles with Elleby and you will make some noise. (Even with Blevins....)
In a vacuum I still think you're wrong but we don't live in a vacuum. Injuries are real. This is also Olshey's attitude. The "let's wait and see what they can do when everyone is healthy" idea is flawed because of the assumption that at some point everyone will be healthy. We're waiting and waiting. In a vacuum, where everyone is healthy, we still have to deal with the fact that Dame and CJ are an absolutely terrible defensive back court that are redundant on offense. That's not a theory that's six years of experience. This team does have enough talent on it to be a title contender but that talent has to fit together. Maybe I'm wrong and another coach could make it fit, maybe I'm wrong and Stotts could make it fit. The fact is that we don't and probably won't know. Injuries are not an excuse to put a team's core on pause for four or five seasons, the rest of the league moves on. We need to move on. All of that said, right now I don't give a damn about CJ. Fire Olshey and see what his replacement does with this team. Maybe the replacement feels like you do.
I’m not saying CJ is untradable, I’m just saying his value is more than most think and until you find another viable option he’s one of the most important players to this team come playoff time. While you won’t compete for championship with him without him you probably get bounced in first round. if Ben Simmons is available I’d throw 3 first rounders out there and combination of players excluding Dame and Nurk
