<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 26 2007, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. There were only 50 games in the 98-99 season because of the lockout.2. YES, last year was a lost year for Big Al because he missed so much time with his ankle injuries, from training camp to the end of the year. He didn't even get a chance to show what he had because as soon as he put together a string of 5 or 6 solid games, he screwed up his other ankle.3. I didn't mention Delonte as a newbie, but he did just come back into his own.4. Perk, again, is battling plantar fasciitis, and it is OBVIOUSLY hindering his game and movement, which is why he's playing limited minutes.5. Gomes had "plenty of time last year?" Really? Doc didn't even utilize him until the second half of the year (again, because of Big Al and Perk being out). Sure, he played well in that time and he has played well this year for the most part. He carries himself like a veteran, which is why I didn't mention him before in the list of "kids."6. Doc's inability to get them consistent playing time early in the year? What do you suggest? We drop Pierce's minutes to 30 a game, Delonte's to 20, and split with the bigs? There is not enough playing time for all of these young players... until now, with all the injuries. The only guy that should have gotten more minutes in the beginning of the year was Gerald (and Rondo in December), but that theory was shot dead once Tony Allen was reincarnated.Don't even worry about it. Just be happy that these guys are fighting through all the animosity this year and still competing hard night in and night out. That alone should give you some hope, considering the fact that some of our best players aren't even playing in these games that we are always in to the end.</div>1. I know it was due to a lockout. My point is that how could last season be lost for Al if he played 59 last year, which is 9 more than anyone played in 99?2. He played 59 games last year. That's more than enough time to show improvement. 3. Come back into his own? He came back from an injury if that's what you mean.4. I don't recall saying anything about Perk's playing time in particular. I was speaking in general terms about needing time to develop. Obviously his time should be limited if he's unhealthy. 5. He played in 61 games and averaged 22 minutes per. That's some pretty good playing time for a 2nd round pick. 6. I suggest setting a rotation instead of playing all 12 guys on the roster. Does that mean some guys would be left out? Yes, but the team would be able to gel and play much better together. I am happy the Celts don't get blown out every night, but I don't have any confidence in Rivers' ability to lead this team to the next level. Does anyone at this point?
Yes, you can make the argument that if Rondo pushed the ball up, it would have resulted in a turnover just as you can argue that it would have resulted in a basket.But the bottom line is, he didn't push the ball up the court ... and Doc wanted him to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 26 2007, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. I know it was due to a lockout. My point is that how could last season be lost for Al if he played 59 last year, which is 9 more than anyone played in 99? 2. He played 59 games last year. That's more than enough time to show improvement. 3. Come back into his own? He came back from an injury if that's what you mean. 4. I don't recall saying anything about Perk's playing time in particular. I was speaking in general terms about needing time to develop. Obviously his time should be limited if he's unhealthy. 5. He played in 61 games and averaged 22 minutes per. That's some pretty good playing time for a 2nd round pick. 6. I suggest setting a rotation instead of playing all 12 guys on the roster. Does that mean some guys would be left out? Yes, but the team would be able to gel and play much better together. I am happy the Celts don't get blown out every night, but I don't have any confidence in Rivers' ability to lead this team to the next level. Does anyone at this point?</div> 1. What does 1999 have to do with anything? Who cares how many games there were that year, it was for a reason. Al's "lost season" wasn't because of games played, it was because of games missed and the fact that he played on 2 sprained ankles all year long. 2. Yeah, and he was playing through 2 sprained ankles all season long. All 59 of those games, he was not 100%. He suffered a big sprain in training camp and missed the start of the year. Then he came back and finally put together a string of a few solid games, then he sprained the other ankle. That is a lost season. 3. Come back into his own = get back playing well. 4. Right, and all I was saying is that you can't expect Perk to show any improvement this year while he's playing through this nagging foot injury. 5. Yes, he played in 61 games, but how many of those games did he get garbage minutes in? Quite a few in the beginning of the year. He didn't start getting consistent minutes until Al and Perk went down with injuries, then he just took over the starting job. 6. You can't establish a rotation with a situation like this, because you NEVER know what you are going to get from any of these young players. I'd say except for Big Al, Gomes, and maybe Delonte, everyone else on this roster is like a roller coaster (they explode for 20 one night, they shoot 20% the next). You just have to go with the flow. Nobody has confidence in Doc taking this team to the next level. Nobody ever argued that.
A for effort? Are you f***ing joking me? Fire this idiot and get a whole new management. Who is the clown owner of this team? Toronto twice, Atlanta twice, Sacramento, Washington, Detroit, San Antonio, Indiana and Washington. You'd think even a garbage team like the Celtics would be able to win at least a couple of those. Doc Rivers is stupid. I don't know what happened with the Dec. 22 game with Philly, but disregarding that, the Celtics have lost 16 of their last 18 games, and the 2 wins were over the crappy jailblazers by just 8, and the grizzlies who obviously have like the worst record in the league. Obviously they aren't giving A effort if they can't beat some of the worst teams in the league when they play them twice within 2 weeks. I was hoping they'd play well to honor Red and all, but damn, he's gotta be going nuts in his grave. I thought last season was bad but damn! Talk about a ruined franchise. Danny Ainge is def. my choice now for worst GM. Billy King is a prodigy compared to this idiot. Maybe I'm just used to the excellence of the Suns, but wow, if not for a few small streaks of wins, you'd be the worst in the league.Hell, then again, you should try to be worst in the league. Draft Oden or whoever and get Pierce some real help, not these garbage HSers like Green who are all about flashiness.As for Pierce, he pleasantly surprises me. Due to the fact that he's not starting rumblings of a trade demand. I love franchise players, and I've liked this guy mainly for the fact that he is one. But he's gonna get KG syndrome soon and both of them should get a chip by now for dedication alone. Both were ruined, by my next point.My next point is that good management is key to a chip. Pistons had good management, the Spurs do, the Heat have a decent one, the lakers did. That's why KG and Pierce get F*cked in the ass, because of management. I don't entirely blame the managers. I think they just F*ck around and see what they can get away with. I blame the owner and president, for not firing them and getting somebody competent.That's my rant.EDIT: This could be my longest ever post. You should be proud it's in your section
Danny isn't a bad GM....we weren't going anywhere with that team of overachieving scrubs from 2002At least now we have hope for the future and possible contenders in a few yearsyou probably haven't watched many of the games Ginger Jesusand watching the highlights doesn't count because on most of the networks who show highlights they never show the bright spots of the Celtics..they just dickride the other teams :thumbdn1: coming from a person who hates to lose and watches the Celtics everynight...we arent as bad as hyped up to befirst of all half of our roster is injured along with our star player...the problems have nothing to do with management...because quite frankly we had a nice team coming into the seasonthe problems lie on inexperience, injuries and bad coaching
I heard people are calling these guys the College Celtics know that they are so young and really if you think about it, could qualify for the NCAA.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ginger Jesus @ Jan 27 2007, 02:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>A for effort? Are you f***ing joking me? Fire this idiot and get a whole new management. Who is the clown owner of this team? Toronto twice, Atlanta twice, Sacramento, Washington, Detroit, San Antonio, Indiana and Washington. You'd think even a garbage team like the Celtics would be able to win at least a couple of those. Doc Rivers is stupid. I don't know what happened with the Dec. 22 game with Philly, but disregarding that, the Celtics have lost 16 of their last 18 games, and the 2 wins were over the crappy jailblazers by just 8, and the grizzlies who obviously have like the worst record in the league. Obviously they aren't giving A effort if they can't beat some of the worst teams in the league when they play them twice within 2 weeks. I was hoping they'd play well to honor Red and all, but damn, he's gotta be going nuts in his grave. I thought last season was bad but damn! Talk about a ruined franchise. Danny Ainge is def. my choice now for worst GM. Billy King is a prodigy compared to this idiot. Maybe I'm just used to the excellence of the Suns, but wow, if not for a few small streaks of wins, you'd be the worst in the league. Hell, then again, you should try to be worst in the league. Draft Oden or whoever and get Pierce some real help, not these garbage HSers like Green who are all about flashiness. As for Pierce, he pleasantly surprises me. Due to the fact that he's not starting rumblings of a trade demand. I love franchise players, and I've liked this guy mainly for the fact that he is one. But he's gonna get KG syndrome soon and both of them should get a chip by now for dedication alone. Both were ruined, by my next point. My next point is that good management is key to a chip. Pistons had good management, the Spurs do, the Heat have a decent one, the lakers did. That's why KG and Pierce get F*cked in the ass, because of management. I don't entirely blame the managers. I think they just F*ck around and see what they can get away with. I blame the owner and president, for not firing them and getting somebody competent. That's my rant. EDIT: This could be my longest ever post. You should be proud it's in your section </div> I am proud you made a long post, but too bad it's a post that makes me roll my eyes. If you don't see the effort in these kids, there so no doubt in my mind that you don't even watch the Celtics one bit. When is the last time you actually watched the Celtics play, Ginger? They clearly are giving an A for effort, they just make too many little mistakes to get the win.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 26 2007, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>6. You can't establish a rotation with a situation like this, because you NEVER know what you are going to get from any of these young players. I'd say except for Big Al, Gomes, and maybe Delonte, everyone else on this roster is like a roller coaster (they explode for 20 one night, they shoot 20% the next). You just have to go with the flow.</div>It's the chicken or the egg here. You can argue that the reason they're so inconsistent is because they don't get regular playing time or that they don't deserve playing time because they're inconsistent. Personally I would've liked to see a set rotation where guys would play their way in and out of it. At least then they'd have the chance to develop chemistry.The thing that bothers me the most about Doc's coaching is the pitiful defense. Young guys are bound to turn the ball over and make mistakes on O but they should at least be able to get some kind of team D going. I've seen college teams play more organized defense than the Celts. As for Danny Ainge, he hasn't proven to be a good or bad GM yet. Like I said in another thread he's been helpful and hurtful at times. If the team doesn't make a real playoff push next year I think he should be out as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>?They?re playing so freakin hard,? said Rivers. ?I just want to squeeze out a win for them so they can relax.?</div>(This quote is from the article in which Doc gives the team an A for effort: http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20541.shtml)When Doc says "I just want to squeeze out a win for them ..." it sounds to me like he is taking responsibility for their downward spiral. It's one thing to talk about how badly the players want to win, but clearly Doc is taking the burden on his shoulders and feeling like he is a big part of it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 27 2007, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's the chicken or the egg here. You can argue that the reason they're so inconsistent is because they don't get regular playing time or that they don't deserve playing time because they're inconsistent. Personally I would've liked to see a set rotation where guys would play their way in and out of it. At least then they'd have the chance to develop chemistry. The thing that bothers me the most about Doc's coaching is the pitiful defense. Young guys are bound to turn the ball over and make mistakes on O but they should at least be able to get some kind of team D going. I've seen college teams play more organized defense than the Celts. As for Danny Ainge, he hasn't proven to be a good or bad GM yet. Like I said in another thread he's been helpful and hurtful at times. If the team doesn't make a real playoff push next year I think he should be out as well.</div> You want to see guys like their way in and out of the rotation? OK, done. See Sebastian Telfair (working his way out of the rotation). See Allan Ray (working his way into it and getting minutes). Powe barely plays. Kandi-Man barely plays. Bassy barely plays. That pretty much sounds like an 8 man rotation to me, with 3 other guys getting situational garbage minutes. No argument that the defense is terrible, and no argument we need a better coach. Tony Brown is our friggen defensive coach haha, he's terrible. However, us messing up plays is NOT anywhere near all the coaches fault. If Gerald Green gets lost in a switch, how is that Doc's fault? If Bassy gets totally burned, how is that Doc's fault? If Perk doesn't box out, how is that Doc's fault? Again, that all comes with the youth. Agreed that next year should be a make or break year for Danny.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jan 27 2007, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You want to see guys like their way in and out of the rotation? OK, done. See Sebastian Telfair (working his way out of the rotation). See Allan Ray (working his way into it and getting minutes). Powe barely plays. Kandi-Man barely plays. Bassy barely plays. That pretty much sounds like an 8 man rotation to me, with 3 other guys getting situational garbage minutes.No argument that the defense is terrible, and no argument we need a better coach. Tony Brown is our friggen defensive coach haha, he's terrible. However, us messing up plays is NOT anywhere near all the coaches fault. If Gerald Green gets lost in a switch, how is that Doc's fault? If Bassy gets totally burned, how is that Doc's fault? If Perk doesn't box out, how is that Doc's fault? Again, that all comes with the youth.Agreed that next year should be a make or break year for Danny.</div>Now Doc has to have a rotation because the roster is so thin. In prior years though and earlier this season it seemed like all 12 guys were playing every game. The time was consistent either, as someone like Allen could get 30 minutes one game and 5 the next. I would've rather had Doc say "This is the group of 8 or 9 I'm going with" and then only play guys outside that group if someone wasn't producing. I didn't say plays being messed up was the coaches fault. I said young guys are bound to make mistakes on offense even if they're coached well, but they certainly make more when they're not.Ainge better be praying for Oden or Durant, otherwise I think he's through.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jan 27 2007, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would've rather had Doc say "This is the group of 8 or 9 I'm going with" and then only play guys outside that group if someone wasn't producing.</div> This brings back my point: these young players are so inconsistent that they'll play well one night and not play well the next. This is why Doc can't have a rotation (with Pierce/Wally back), because one night a guy like Gerald scores 20 and the next he shoots 5/15. With a young team like this, you can't just say "this is my rotation, and I'm sticking to it" because you need to give all of these young guys a chance. If Doc did this rotation deal, you know damn well there would be a thread within 2-3 days saying "No more _____ on the court?" and it would be bashing Doc because that kid deserved to play some minutes. Outside of 2 or 3 young players, nobody has really separated themselves from the young core. It's not like we have a decision like "Al Jefferson or Leon Powe," it's a bunch of unproven kids that need minutes to develop and show what they can do. How do you expect the organization to evaluate their young talent? Team scrimmages? No, they need to give every young player an opportunity to show what they can do, because pretty much all of these young players are unproven and raw.
I'd say I'm still right. I don't think you can contradict me now. I mean F*ck, 14 in a row? FOURTEEN LOSSES. IN A ROW. It's obvious they're tanking to get a high pick. Doc should just shut up. They might as well just have the games be a dunk exhibition so G Money can get ready for the dunk contest.To those that say it's a bad thing because I don't see many games, but I see it as a blessing. I mean damn, who the hell wants to watch a team lose 14 in a row and 21 of their last 23, and with teams like NJ and DET coming up, more to come. I can only imagine a boston fan is numb to the pain of getting kicked in the balls, since that's probably the equivalent of watching 1 game of this sad group. I'm caught in a bind here, because I love Pierce and I love him more in green, but damn, this guy's gonna go a whole career wasted on this garbage team with total garbage management unless he's dealt or whoever they get as a #1 or 2 pick turns out to blow this team sky high.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ginger Jesus @ Feb 6 2007, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd say I'm still right. I don't think you can contradict me now. I mean F*ck, 14 in a row? FOURTEEN LOSSES. IN A ROW. It's obvious they're tanking to get a high pick. Doc should just shut up. They might as well just have the games be a dunk exhibition so G Money can get ready for the dunk contest. To those that say it's a bad thing because I don't see many games, but I see it as a blessing. I mean damn, who the hell wants to watch a team lose 14 in a row and 21 of their last 23, and with teams like NJ and DET coming up, more to come. I can only imagine a boston fan is numb to the pain of getting kicked in the balls, since that's probably the equivalent of watching 1 game of this sad group. I'm caught in a bind here, because I love Pierce and I love him more in green, but damn, this guy's gonna go a whole career wasted on this garbage team with total garbage management unless he's dealt or whoever they get as a #1 or 2 pick turns out to blow this team sky high.</div> No, Ginger Jesus, we are not tanking to get a high pick. Other than Wally Szczerbiak (who is playing injured), Brian Scalabrine, and Kendrick Perkins (who is playing injured), all of our rotation players have 3 years of NBA experience or less. That's the problem. If we were tanking, Paul Pierce wouldn't be coming back this week (he is expected back on Friday). Our management isn't "garbage." Teams like Minnesota, New York, and Seattle have garbage management.
Yes, you ARE tanking, and perhaps your management ISN'T as bad as I made it out to be, but your coaching is probably flat out THE. WORST. And your players are probably THE. WORST. I mean what in the flying F*ck, Tony Allen? Dumb sh*t!4 words: Sixteen. In. A. Row.4 extra words: Oh. My. f*cking. God.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ginger Jesus @ Feb 8 2007, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, you ARE tanking, and perhaps your management ISN'T as bad as I made it out to be, but your coaching is probably flat out THE. WORST. And your players are probably THE. WORST. I mean what in the flying F*ck, Tony Allen? Dumb sh*t! 4 words: Sixteen. In. A. Row. 4 extra words: Oh. My. f*cking. God.</div> We aren't tanking, we just aren't good/experienced enough to win games. Tanking is not what's going on. Pierce is in the hospital right now and Wally just sprained his ankle AGAIN last night. TA is out for season, Theo Ratliff is out for season. Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Brian Scalabrine, and Michael Olowokandi have all been injured this season as well. Hell, our announcer has even had back surgery. Mix that in with the fact that every player in our rotation right now (outside of 4 players) have 3 years of NBA experience or less... what do you get? Losses. We are not tanking, we just can't cut it. EDIT: Wow, I just read that last post, you are so ignorant. And you've even admitted to not watching any Celtics games at all, so you clearly have no idea what you are talking about anyway.
