I always thought Doc was overrated as a coach, i dunno why...i dont think he does a good job of developing young players, and hes more suited for a veteran team...but he's still a good choice, and definitely a step above carroll...hopefully he can put a lil life back in the franchise, focusing on Pierce, Welsch and a healthy LaFrentz...
Doc is not a very good coach, he is a soild one as his records show but you don't see what he failed to do. Which was he failed to motivate his players mainly Mcgrady to play with his team-mates and play defense. He couldn't develop talent or find talent for that matter. Which is going to get worse in Boston with young guys like Banks, Hunter and Perkins who still need to be developed. His rotations are also something that sticks out and says "what is he thinking" Reece Gaines is a prefect example, this guy is not a bad player but It's the fact he was never motivated or was given any confidence by Rivers which was a huge reason why he struggled. I also don't see the point in Doc taking this job either, he was fired by a one man team with little support for his main guy. The same is in effect in Boston. Only difference is Pierce is not as good a player as Mcgrady is. All seems pointless from both sides.
Well, those are certainly valid points. However, it shouldn't be a coaches job to motivate his star player to play with his teammates. That should come naturally, and it does with Paul. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He couldn't develop talent or find talent for that matter</div> I'm not really sure about the developing Talent, because I don't follow the Magic that much, but finding talent isn't a coaches job, it's the GM's and all indications from most Magic Fans I've talked to is that John Gabriel is the Anti-Christ. Doc and Danny see eye to eye on the best offense to run and both are friends, so they know what each other is about. I expect little friction between them and expect Danny to lead the way in finding the best players for the system. We've got alot of youth, so player development has to be near the top of the issues Danny went over with Doc before going ahead with the hiring. Danny's got big plans for Perkins, so either Doc or someone on his staff is going to have to work with him, so I think we're ok in that regard.
Regarding Doc Rivers I found this to be really interesting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">-- The big news of the day has to be the Celtics <u><font color="#0000ff">hiring Doc Rivers as coach</font></u>. I'm not surprised Doc is returning to coaching, but I am surprised he's coming to Boston. Why would anyone working about twice a month, making plenty of money, want to go work coaching a bunch of sub-par players, working under Danny Ainge, who not only traded away several good players without consulting the coach, but then sat behind that coach and called out plays, undermining his authority? Especially when Doc feuded with the GM in Orlando because he wanted more power and say in the personnel decisions? <u><font color="#0000ff">How does this happen</font></u>? According to some in Boston, Doc simply wanted the chance to coach the Celtics, one of the great franchises in NBA history. As <u><font color="#0000ff">Bob Ryan says</font></u>, you don't know whether to say "Congratulations!" or "Are you crazy?"</div> http://www.slamonline.com/links/04262004/
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, those are certainly valid points. However, it shouldn't be a coaches job to motivate his star player to play with his teammates. That should come naturally, and it does with Paul. </div> Motivating your players is the single most important thing about being an NBA coach, to get the best out of your players you need to work them to improve their overall games. If guys aren't motivated to play the game they will never live up to expections. You have to build a team chemistry within your team so they play as a team, thats something Doc never tried to do. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not really sure about the developing Talent, because I don't follow the Magic that much, but finding talent isn't a coaches job, it's the GM's and all indications from most Magic Fans I've talked to is that John Gabriel is the Anti-Christ. </div> Well from I was told Doc Rivers had a good say in who the Magic decided to bring in, he has always liked to be a part of new talent being brought into his team, infact some people have told me that the draft picks that Orlando choose were picked by Doc Rivers.
I think the coaches do have a major say in acquiring talent. Its logical because they have to play with these players during the season. If a GM does not check with his coach regarding any transactions he is showing disrespect because the coach has to play with the players. Finding the talent may not be the coaches job, but he should have a say regarding who makes the team.
I thought that Doc's main thing was motivational speaking - from what I understand, the players just tuned him out after a while am I making this up or is this how other people understand it?
I also was under the impression that he was a good motivator and that was his role on his teams. I guess if you lose so much all of that motivational talk really falls on deaf ears after awhile. I don't think Doc has ever had a talented team that he can work with and I don't know how talented this Celtics team really is. Can he motivate them to make it to the playoffs next year...past the second round? I'm not too confident about that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You have to build a team chemistry within your team so they play as a team, thats something Doc never tried to do.</div> Motivation only goes as far as the stars who lead the rest of the team. The team continued to flounder after Doc left, so this can't all be blamed on him. And my point, although not clear enough apparently, was that when you have a star of T-Mac's caliber, they can't simply "tune out" the coach. When they stop paying attention, then the team is doomed. T-Mac has more pull on that team than any coach is going to, save maybe some scenario where Phil Jackson were there. Any disputes are always going to side with the star talent. Case in point: Philly and AI. How many coaches has he gone through now? No coach can keep the rest of the team in order, when the star goes maverick on him and stops listening. That team is still in disarray and you can't blame that on Doc Rivers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">However, it shouldn't be a coaches job to motivate his star player to play with his teammates. That should come naturally, and it does with Paul.</div> Two words: Hubie Brown. Memphis was struggling over the years with coaches who doesn't know how to motivate them. With the "father like" coaching that Hubie did, playoffs. Every NBA player has the talent. But, it could be one of two things. He's too raw and he hasn't realized his full potential yet or he's a superstar who doesn't know how to utilize his talent fully to help the team. Now if these players are going to play under a system that was laid down by the coach, it would surely help them if the coach knows how to motivate the players to embrace the system. For the record, bad choice IMHO.
Nets: Using Memphis in this example may not have been the most poignient of choices. My point is that in Orlando's case, they have an established Superstar who led the way in ignoring his coaches motivation. Memphis has no such problem. With the Exception of Pau Gasol and Bonzi Wells, there are no upper-echelon players on the roster and the 2 of them are the under-the-radar, still not nationally reknown type of big time players. They both are hard working guys who come to work everyday, not only to play, but to learn. So is the rest of the team. They're blue collar guys who have to work hard to be good. T-Mac has no such issues. While I'm sure he works hard in practices, he has the luxury of falling back on phenomenal talent. When you've got a guy like that as the leader of the team, when he stops leading and only thinks of himself, the teams going to flounder. No amount of motivation is going to change the fact that the most integral cog in the machine is broken. I'm sorry if I delivered it incorrectly when I first mentioned it, but motivation has it's place, but in this situation, motivation only goes as far as the one leading takes it. In Orlando's case, until they get a Coach that is bigger than T-Mac (and that's not real likely right now), the leader in the eyes of the players for the Orlando Magic is Tracy McGrady. That may indeed suck as the truth, but it is the truth. T-Mac alone dictates how far the Magic go, because he dictates the effort, dedication, selflessness, etc. that players are going to look towards in practices, game preparation and game execution.
I'm talking about Williams man. And James Posey, the Stro Show, Lorenzen Wright...Hubie did wonders for them...Williams ain't the streetballer anymore...James became a defensive whiz and made a run for the MIP. Stro and Lorenzen made solid contributions off the bench... Regarding the superstar being motivated by the coach, they do have Gasol. He doesn't look like it though since Hubie insists on a 10 man rotation and only gives Gasol 30+ minutes. They focus on team play rather than on Gasol's talent. As I see it, Gasol can dominate the game. He has the power and finesse to do so but he gladly sacrificed showing off for the team...He was motivated to do so...
InNETSweTrust, until a coach steps into Orlando and has the power and courage to bench T-Mac, it's not going to change the situation in Orlando. Hubie Brown had the authority to bench Gasol and Williams if they did not buy into his system. Fortunately for the Grizzlies they have the luxury of easily plugging in players to play Gasol's and Williams's minutes. They also have the confidence in Jerry West getting a deal done if there are players on the Grizzlies "rocking the boat." The jury is still out on the Doc Rivers / Danny Ainge relationship, but you have to keep in mind the following. Both played and had a lot of success during the same era of basketball. They apparently have a good relationship already, and they both share the same offensive vision. As of now everything looks good "on paper," but we will have to see how the Celtics build this team in the off-season and then see if Doc Rivers can produce the results he's expected to produce.
Well the problem is, if there is such a coach who has the power and courage to bench the star player, he more often than not ends up as the bad guy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the problem is, if there is such a coach who has the power and courage to bench the star player, he more often than not ends up as the bad guy.</div> Very true, but you have to put the blame on the GM in that case. Doc Rivers was Gabriel's scapegoat in Orlando and he paid for the mistakes Gabriel made over the last few seasons. Including the trade he made for Grant Hill, which cost them Ben Wallace. Doc Rivers will be in a better situation with the Celtics, and they should respond to his style. Paul Pierce is the star of the team, and a very loyal player, who has the respect of his coaches and teammates. Doc's competitive nature and high energy should mesh well with Pierce's competitive fire, leading to a more focused Celtics team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the problem is, if there is such a coach who has the power and courage to bench the star player, he more often than not ends up as the bad guy.</div> Exactly, Chris Ford benched AI and everyone says he's an idiot and a horrible coach, IMO he's the only coach who was willing to risk hisjob for what needed to be done. I would like to see Rivers and all coached be able to step up to their star players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly, Chris Ford benched AI and everyone says he's an idiot and a horrible coach, IMO he's the only coach who was willing to risk hisjob for what needed to be done</div> Exactly. Those who knew Ford, knew something like that was bound to happen, because Ford doesn't believe any player is bigger than the team. Nets: I understand what you're saying bro. Hubie did a great job turning around marginal players down in Memphis by motivating and developing them. I just don't feel that there's a strong correlation between the 2 situations. I know what you're saying and aren't discounting it in the Memphis situation. IN fact any situation where no one player sees themself as bigger then the team, it's applicable.
