<div class="quote_poster">Quoting notMuchgame:</div><div class="quote_post">man, your memory must be fuzzy...in 02-03 when Shaq came back, they were still losing like crazy...It was only a couple of weeks before the all-star break did they start winning, and that was largely due to the role players stepping up a bit...(if u recall, early in the season when shaq was out, Kobe criticized the role players for missing shots, and when Shaq came back and they were still losing, Shaq also criticized the role players for missing shots) IN addition, lets talk about 03-04 when Kobe was out and the Shaq led Lakers played sub-.500 ball capped by a lost to the hawks...when Shaq was out, Kobe led them to a .720 + record... Yet all this makes no difference now. It's all relative because both players are obvious franchise players. What matters is what will happen next season...Kobe AND Shaq have something to prove to everyone....</div> <font color="Red"> <font size="4">NO PERSONAL ATTACKS READ OUR GUIDELINES</font></font> klobe neverled his team to a .720 record by himself payton was there and yes payton did have a lot to do with it so dont give me that crap. kobe is way over rated watch when shaq leaves lets c wat happenes <font color="Red"> <font size="4">NO PERSONAL ATTACKS READ OUR GUIDELINES</font></font>
kobe bryant is the best player in the league plain and simple ppl just dont like kobe because he is the truth he says what he thinks ppl always say kobe got shaq but remmeber didnt magic have kareem and worthy?!?! so he is not overated
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thedude9990:</div><div class="quote_post">shut the hell ip klobe neverled his team to a .720 record by himself payton was there and yes payton did have a lot to do with it so dont give me that crap. kobe is way over rated watch when shaq leaves lets c wat happenes your just saing that ***** cause u are on kobes nuts like the other bandwaggoners</div> Now all of a sudden people are giving Payton credit for contributing to the team? Anyway, over their careers together, while Shaq was out the Kobe-led Lakers have a 55-45 record. I don't necessarily think it proves much other than how the bandwagon of Kobe haters exaggerate way too much when it comes to the Lakers success (or lack thereof from the haters perspective) without Shaq.
This is ridiculous. Obviously, the Lakers are going to be destroyed without Shaq because they don't have any other player that can play, let alone play the paint. Karl Malone was the only legitimate center on the team if Shaq wasn't playing...Medvedenko was a big reason the Lakers lost without Shaq because his defense sucked BIGTIME. He couldn't hold guys like Garnett and Duncan...and even Olowokandi was scoring on him. Like I stated previously, any team that wants to be successful needs a decent center, doesn't matter if he can score or not...just someone who can defend the paint and can rebound. If the Lakers had someone like...even Lamar Odom...they would've been almost as successful. Who's better...Ben Wallace or Shaq? Shaq scores way much more...but if the Lakers had Ben Wallace, they would've had the same opportunity to win the title...and would've probably won last year. Now...try replacing Kobe Bryant. It doesn't work...I don't care what anyone says. It took since 1996 to form some type of chemistry with Shaq...actually, they still can't get along. How long will it take someone else to do the same?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">Now all of a sudden people are giving Payton credit for contributing to the team? Anyway, over their careers together, while Shaq was out the Kobe-led Lakers have a 55-45 record. I don't necessarily think it proves much other than how the bandwagon of Kobe haters exaggerate way too much when it comes to the Lakers success (or lack thereof from the haters perspective) without Shaq.</div> show me a link to where u got that stat.
Kobe is a great player, probably the best player in the NBA. Once upon a time I though he would be the next Jordan. He won't. Why? Kobe does not make his teammates better. He's a selfish, glory hog and ball hog. If Phil could not teach him that Basketball is a team sport, he ain't gonna learn. He's gotten worse every year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">the Lakers had someone like...even Lamar Odom...they would've been almost as successful. Who's better...Ben Wallace or Shaq? Shaq scores way much more...but if the Lakers had Ben Wallace, they would've had the same opportunity to win the title...and would've probably won last year. Now...try replacing Kobe Bryant. It doesn't work...I don't care what anyone says. It took since 1996 to form some type of chemistry with Shaq...actually, they still can't get along. How long will it take someone else to do the same?</div> its a lot easier to replace kobe than it is to replace shaq. you can't teach 7'1" and 350+ lbs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, over their careers together, while Shaq was out the Kobe-led Lakers have a 55-45 record. I don't necessarily think it proves much other than how the bandwagon of Kobe haters exaggerate way too much when it comes to the Lakers success (or lack thereof from the haters perspective) without Shaq.</div> As compared to the .700 winning percentage they have with Shaq. And the Lakers have always had great role players surrounding Shaq and Kobe, so the record wouldn't have been too poor without Shaq. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mel:</div><div class="quote_post">MJ's/Kobe's competitive fire is a double-edged sword...they'll do whatever it takes to win. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't MJ punch out Steve Kerr in practice once? And Kobe, he socked Samaki Walker once as well. Basically what it comes down to is winning -- when they win, its their competitive spirit that did it and life is grand...when they lose, its because they tried too much and then they get murdered with ridicule and criticism.</div> If Kobe only wanted to win, why force Shaq and Phil to leave? Kobe may want to win, but he wants to win not having to defer to anyone, and IMO that's selfish.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What matters is what will happen next season...Kobe AND Shaq have something to prove to everyone....</div> This line gave me goosebumps. This is so true, I can't wait to see them play against each other!!
I think almost everyone respects him, because they haven't got any reason not to.........maybe if he has raped that 19yo.
Trying to get back on topic to the actual question posed in this thread. Does anyone in the league still respect Kobe Bryant? The answer is without a doubt. Kobe is respected by his peers and has many friends in the NBA. Despite the constant criticism, Kobe Bryant is still a marketable player in attracting free agents to play alongside him. Kobe Bryant comes off to a lot of people as selfish, cocky, greedy ... the list goes on and on. When you dislike someone for whatever reason, you are going to twist their actions into a negative and constantly point it out. However, if you watch the players respond to him before, during, and after games, you can see the "love" players have for Kobe. He is quick to congratulate or accept praise after a game. He does a lot of pre game joking with peers including one of his close friends, KG. If you took a poll around the league, I bet a significant amount of players would have no reservations having number 8 on their team.
He is respected by the L and damn-right deserves it. But with the common folk, he's being treated like a dog. Your seeing half of Kobe, when he has his own team you'll see the complete player Kobe is. Try playing with a guy like Shaq, I know MJ, with out a doubt wouldn't. A lazy oger in the paint, askin' for the ball and bricking, missing freethrows, not in team celebrations. Doesn't know that Kobe has the most assists to Shaq, and wants more money. With out Kobe, the lakers would be 0/100. With out Shaq, the lakers would be 50/100. Kobe would put up great numbers without shaq (T-mac) but with the right chemistry they would win also. Chemistry is the main thing. Magic would be good if they had nice chem. I got more Sh!t2say but I dont got that much time. PEace
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">show me a link to where u got that stat.</div> Can't show links for what is shown on ESPN News. BC: They Lakers have not had great role players, per se. They have had great role players for the system they use. That system is dependant upon Shaq. When Shaq is out those role players are garbage. Up until this past year the Lakers have not had an atleast decent post up man other than Shaq. Kobe has had the likes of Samaki Walker backing him up in the post offensively and defensively while Shaq was out. Let's look year by year: 2002-2003: Devean George, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Samaki. 2001-2002: See previous season but add Lindsey Hunter. 2000-2001: Fisher, Fox, Horace Grant, Isaiah Rider, Brian Shaw, Horry. 1999-2000: Rice, Harper, Fox, Fisher, Horry, Shaw, Green. Those are good role players for the system the Lakers run with Shaq, but how can anyone expect Kobe to win a whole lot of games with the lineups that can be used without Shaq?
well, the record has to do w/ a team as a whole... as individuals, the lakers in the finals at one point were +8 when shaq was on the floor, and -26 or so when he was off... that says more about which of the two make more of an impact... kobe, if he was so unselfish, yada yada yada, would have noticed that and done something about it... shaq made kobe better, but kobe did not make shaq better... thats the diff between he and mike, mike woulda made shaq better
Kobe won't get many people's respect until he lives up to the hype by leading a team on his back into the playoffs and win a title. For a guy compared to MJ, It shouldn't be that big a problem for him. But of course people with common sense know he isn't close to Jordan and never will be. He will be known as the guy that rided Shaq to win his championships.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">well, the record has to do w/ a team as a whole... as individuals, the lakers in the finals at one point were +8 when shaq was on the floor, and -26 or so when he was off... that says more about which of the two make more of an impact... kobe, if he was so unselfish, yada yada yada, would have noticed that and done something about it... shaq made kobe better, but kobe did not make shaq better... thats the diff between he and mike, mike woulda made shaq better</div> well, regarding the +/- in the detriot series, you have to consider who is backing up Shaq when he leaves the game...when Shaq was on the bench, they were forced to play Medvedenko, an injured Malone, and Brian Cook. They had stretches when they played Walton, Cook, and Medvedenko in the front court together. Lets be honest, the Lakers had one of the worst front court depth in the enitre league...that's one of the reasons why I dont like the +/- statistics.....but I will agree that when on the floor together, Kobe should've deferred to Shaq more (altho I don't think it would've mattered in the end, Detriot would've whupped us good either way IMO) MJ and Shaq would've been interesting...I don't think it is as simple as some may think. MJ was a great motivator, and Shaq has always been someone who is in need of motivation...however, Shaq is extremely sensitive, and I'm not sure he would've been able to handle MJ's tounge lashings...
I would say most, if not all, NBA players, coaches, administrators etc. respect Kobe Bryant... but a lot of them wouldn't like him. Big difference.
hah its funny how pl r bringing up the tmac and Kobe thing again.... you say Kobe cant amke his teammates better? can tmac? Obviously Kobe hasnt really had to make his team better that much because he has always been surrounded by a pretty good supporting cast.... so leadership and "team faith" should be out of the question for him right now... now lets look at Tmac.....he leaves toronto to go to orlando to be "in his hometown" of all things....plays there 3 years, gets too cocky, cant get out of the first round, wins a pathetic amount of games, LEADS his team to a 19 game LOSING streak, the worst record in the league yet all the Tmac jockriders say he is better then Kobe... how? you say Kobe is selfish....you think tmac doesnt want all the glory either? why do u think he left toronto? becuz he wanted to be OUT OF VINCE's shadow......so obviously he cares abouyt glory as well.... you guys put an asterik on Kobe, saying hes not a leader.....tell me, whats tmac done thats so uplifting and positive for his teamates? oh wait....isnt this the same cat who comtemplated retirement cuz he was losing? isnt this the same cat who demaded a trade and left his "home-town" becuz he was losing? Kobe and Tmac both have the same skills, same persona.....Kobe is more competitive.... Tmac is a quitter.....Tmac is a loser.....and i find it hard to believe ppl say Kobe's persona is detrimental to his team wheras Tmacs "whiny" attitude isnt? Basically, Kobe is the better, winning version of Tmac... now if they reversed roles when they were on the Magic and Lakers maybe itd be different but they cant so no WHAT IFS should be placed... go with whats written in history ppl Kobe: 3 Championship rings, clutch, respected by GMs and thats all u need Tmac: 0 Championships, clutch at times also, not a proven winner, talks too much...etc Kobe and Tmac have relatively similar personalities......tmac needs to just shut the f up and play....ur losing, ur the leader, u should lift up ur team just think about this: would Kobe contemplate retirement if he was on a losing streak? No. So thers ur answer on who should be more respcted between those 2 right there...
Some Kobe fans are funny, put Kobe in the Orlando Magic situation and I'm sure he would have the same problems. T-mac carried his team to the playoffs 3 times with basically no talent. Until Kobe proves he can do that all this is moot, give Mcgrady a 300 pound, 7'1 center to hide behind and you can bet he would have of been just as successful The only difference between Kobe and Mcgrady is the fact Kobe has It easy by playing with a big man his WHOLE career. When It comes a time you have no help every year like Mcgrady has then you would get frustrated and at times give up. I pray to god that Kobe leaves the Lakers so we can see what he can do with his own team but sadly whatever team he goes to he will have alot more talent around him than Mcgrady has ever had in Orlando. People also need to stop comparing the Yao/Mcgrady v Kobe/Shaq. If the new Rockets duo aren't as successful It will purely mean that Yao isn't on the level of what Shaq was in his prime. Kobe and Mcgrady are basically the same player, now stop comparing.
