<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>That's your and/or Bud's slant on things, but I still would like a link to the story because there may be more to this story. Don Shula may have served on and even chaired the competition committee, but that didn't make him all powerful. Rule changes would have had to have been voted on to be changed and Shula is just one vote. Why didn't the rest of the committee vote against him? (This being a good point will probably be ignored. It was the first time I made it.)</div> No, that's the reality, Bud Grant was fined, and fined for his remarks in the post-game press conference. I'm not sure what the account of the game has to do with anything. If it will help you narrow your search it happened right before his first retirement and the margin of victory was seven or eight points, so you can track down the boxscore if you'd like. If you wish to pay the New York Times fee for access to their archives to dig up the newsblurb, feel free. But 25 year old newspapers aren't online free that I know of.</p> Don Shula was the active coach on the competition committee, the others were not necessarily team representatives (the Competition Committee was nothing like the Board of Governors) and some of them were his friends. The ultimate approval rested with his friend, Pete Rozelle, who sometimes accepted his decisions (as he did after the snowplow incident) and sometimes rejected them (as with the Gary Lewis situation, which he reduced to a mere fine). Hilariously you Miami fans can remember exactly half of most of these incidents (forgetting the fact that Shula was notorious for changing the rules after the fact and trying to apply them to incidents where he felt he'd been outsmarted), but forget completely the Gary Lewis and Bud Grant stories. Lewis, in fact, saw his NFL career ended by Shula's spite, because blocking field goals was really his only salable skill and Shula outlawed his means of doing it.</p> </div></p> You say it's reality, but I can't find any evidence of it on the net. Even if these incidents occured, I'm not confident that you would tell us all the details which might clear up how Shula gained all-power in the NFL and changed rules whenever it suited him or how everyone thought that he made the rules so unfair, but no one talks about Shula except in glowing terms regarding his career in the NFL. If these events where such outrageous miscarriages of justice, you would think there would be evidence of them even after 25 years. After all, you can still read about the Snow Plow Game on the net and it happened twenty five years ago.</p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowplow_Game </p>
[quote name='ehmunro'] [quote name='BearsFan1']obviously we havent had time to get to the bottom of all the cheating the patriots did for chargers games. Might take some time. Doesnt matter. We have already PROVEN the patriots are CHEATERS and CHEATERS are Child molesters.[/quote]</p> I think your tinfoil hat is slipping off.</p> [quote name='BearsFan1']Obviously cheating in jets game made no difference, thats why they did it! LOL[/quote]</p> As the Jets security personnel seized the camera early in the first quarter we know for a fact that it didn't make a difference that game. The coaching staff wouldn't have even had a chance to look at the tape until halftime, by which point it was gone (and the game was over anyway). If the Jets were using the same hand signals the next game and New England had the tape, it might have made a difference. But they didn't.</p> [quote name='BearsFan1']You are operating under the assumption (cuz you are a patriots fan who wont see the truth) that they hadnt already cheated to know what the signals meant, which they obviously had. Thus, having cheated previously, and in that game, and in the chargers game, and in all games every coached by belichek, all they have now accomplished is the taint. Gratz on the taint.[/QUOTE]</p> I am operating on the assumption that the Jets seized the camera early, which according to the Commish and the Jets themselves they did, and therefore the Patriots' coaches never had the chance to analyse the tape. If they stole signals it was through still photography, which is actually legal. (Check if you don't believe me, that's why every NFL team keeps the bank of monitors and printers on their sideline). What they've accomplished is three Super Bowl victories. We New England fans will take that all day every day. Enjoy your sour grapes.</p> [/QUOTE] </p> </p> Yep, my tinfoil hat. You attack me when you cant defend patriots. Figures. I am right. Oh well. When you can defend them without having to attack me, i will listen til then i will know i am 100% right</p> </p>
Wikipedia wasn't a 25 year old newspaper the last time I checked. There are no contemporary links in that entry, making it invalid by your standard. <div> </div><div>Of course, then there's this nugget...</div><div> </div><div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: arial; line-height: 15px; ">The Patriots might have been victimized last season by a somewhat unscrupulous move by former Dolphins coach Nick Saban, who reportedly bought the audio from Patriots games to listen to quarterback Tom Brady's line calls. By knowing which protection scheme Brady was calling, the Dolphins could easily figure out whether to blitz or put more men into coverage. Miami won, 21-0. The NFL did not further investigate the matter.</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(58, 61, 66); font-family: Arial; line-height: normal; "> </span></span></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yep, my tinfoil hat. You attack me when you cant defend patriots. Figures. I am right. Oh well. When you can defend them without having to attack me, i will listen til then i will know i am 100% right</div> Yes, when you called Bill Belichick a "child molester" you've definitely gone way off the deep end. Where's that evidence that they cheated in the Superbowl victories again?</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yep, my tinfoil hat. You attack me when you cant defend patriots. Figures. I am right. Oh well. When you can defend them without having to attack me, i will listen til then i will know i am 100% right</div> Yes, when you called Bill Belichick a "child molester" you've definitely gone way off the deep end. Where's that evidence that they cheated in the Superbowl victories again?</p></div> Its in the commisioners hands. I am not the one in charge of gathering the evidence. I am certainly not claiming bb molests children. However, cheating gets you same cloud of suspicion for your entire life like a child molester and thus no one ever trusts you again. </p> </p> FYI me going off deep end is an attack on me and nota defense of your point. They have been proven to be cheaters, until someone proves they didnt cheat, i think the onus is now on defenders to prove they didnt.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>Wikipedia wasn't a 25 year old newspaper the last time I checked. There are no contemporary links in that entry, making it invalid by your standard. <div>Of course, then there's this nugget...</div> <div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: arial; line-height: 15px">The Patriots might have been victimized last season by a somewhat unscrupulous move by former Dolphins coach Nick Saban, who reportedly bought the audio from Patriots games to listen to quarterback Tom Brady's line calls. By knowing which protection scheme Brady was calling, the Dolphins could easily figure out whether to blitz or put more men into coverage. Miami won, 21-0. The NFL did not further investigate the matter.</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #3a3d42; font-family: Arial; line-height: normal"> </span></span></div></div> Of course they didn't. Because it wasn't the Patriots cheating. Any other team is ok in their books. They're after the Patriots just like these guys here who are calling them child molesters, which in my book is pretty low.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Its in the commisioners hands. I am not the one in charge of gathering the evidence. I am certainly not claiming bb molests children. However, cheating gets you same cloud of suspicion for your entire life like a child molester and thus no one ever trusts you again.</div></p> The only thing in the commissioner's hands is a videotape from the first quarter of the Jets game. Nothing to do with the Superbowls at all. Of course, the irony is that it's Eric Mangini whose NFL career came to an end over this incident. When the Jests fire him at the end of the season he'll be looking long and hard for a new job because no one will trust him to keep his mouth shut.</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>FYI me going off deep end is an attack on me and nota defense of your point. They have been proven to be cheaters, until someone proves they didnt cheat, i think the onus is now on defenders to prove they didnt.</div></p> When you call Bill Belichick a child molester, you really have gone off the deep end. If you're claiming that the Patriots have cheated in every single victory, you'll need to provide some evidence of your claim. It's not up to me to disprove your wild claims. You'll need to back them.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Its in the commisioners hands. I am not the one in charge of gathering the evidence. I am certainly not claiming bb molests children. However, cheating gets you same cloud of suspicion for your entire life like a child molester and thus no one ever trusts you again.</div></p> The only thing in the commissioner's hands is a videotape from the first quarter of the Jets game. Nothing to do with the Superbowls at all. Of course, the irony is that it's Eric Mangini whose NFL career came to an end over this incident. When the Jests fire him at the end of the season he'll be looking long and hard for a new job because no one will trust him to keep his mouth shut.</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>FYI me going off deep end is an attack on me and nota defense of your point. They have been proven to be cheaters, until someone proves they didnt cheat, i think the onus is now on defenders to prove they didnt.</div></p> When you call Bill Belichick a child molester, you really have gone off the deep end. If you're claiming that the Patriots have cheated in every single victory, you'll need to provide some evidence of your claim. It's not up to me to disprove your wild claims. You'll need to back them.</p> </p></div> I am claiming the cheated in the losses too! Not just the victories! I dont need back anything up. They are proven cheaters. You prove they didnt cheat. Someone already proved they did.</p>
The league established one rule violation in one game. That does not provide any evidence of any other wrongdoing. In point of fact, in the other thread you claimed if someone isn't caught it doesn't count. Therefore what we have is one isolated incident, as all the rest of the cheats by every NFL coach (for which you've been provided numerous links) don't count. If you're claiming that they've cheated in every game, you'll have to provide evidence.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>The league established one rule violation in one game. That does not provide any evidence of any other wrongdoing. In point of fact, in the other thread you claimed if someone isn't caught it doesn't count. Therefore what we have is one isolated incident, as all the rest of the cheats by every NFL coach (for which you've been provided numerous links) don't count. If you're claiming that they've cheated in every game, you'll have to provide evidence.</div> No. Thats not what i am saying. I am saying until you have been caught (Which only the patriots have) All your games are free of suspicion. Once you have been caught you need to accept the taint on every game ever unless you can prove that you didnt cheat in each of those games. Burden falls on the cheaters i.e the patriots.</p> Since, these other teams, which you claim have all cheated but never have been caught, obviously one of 2 things is the case. </p> 1) The patriots are the dumbest team in league and thus are the only ones to get caught. This seems unlikely after cheating way to 3 super bowl wins.</p> 2) The patriots cheated so much more than every other team that they got caught becuase the amount of cheating they did was so over the top it was bound to get caught and this isnt an isolated incident.</p> You cant have it both ways. You cant say everyone cheats, and this is 1 time thing. Patriots biggest cheaters in NFL history.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>No. Thats not what i am saying. I am saying until you have been caught (Which only the patriots have) All your games are free of suspicion. Once you have been caught you need to accept the taint on every game ever unless you can prove that you didnt cheat in each of those games. Burden falls on the cheaters i.e the patriots.</div></p> No, the burden of proof always falls on the person making a claim. If you have a claim, back it with evidence or STFU.</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>You cant have it both ways. You cant say everyone cheats, and this is 1 time thing. Patriots biggest cheaters in NFL history.</div></p> I'm not claiming anything that I haven't submitted evidence for. <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">You are</span>. Therefore you need to present evidence of your charges. If you can't what we have are unsubstantiated charges from a fan bitter that his team has zero chance of winning a Superbowl because it starts the worst QB in the NFL.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>No. Thats not what i am saying. I am saying until you have been caught (Which only the patriots have) All your games are free of suspicion. Once you have been caught you need to accept the taint on every game ever unless you can prove that you didnt cheat in each of those games. Burden falls on the cheaters i.e the patriots.</div></p> No, the burden of proof always falls on the person making a claim. If you have a claim, back it with evidence or STFU.</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>You cant have it both ways. You cant say everyone cheats, and this is 1 time thing. Patriots biggest cheaters in NFL history.</div></p> I'm not claiming anything that I haven't submitted evidence for. <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">You are</span>. Therefore you need to present evidence of your charges. If you can't what we have are unsubstantiated charges from a fan bitter that his team has zero chance of winning a Superbowl because it starts the worst QB in the NFL.</p></div> I dont have to back up evidence. I claim they cheated every game. You claim they dont. You provide the evidence they didnt</p>
[quote name='BearsFan1'][quote name='ehmunro'] [quote name='BearsFan1']No. Thats not what i am saying. I am saying until you have been caught (Which only the patriots have) All your games are free of suspicion. Once you have been caught you need to accept the taint on every game ever unless you can prove that you didnt cheat in each of those games. Burden falls on the cheaters i.e the patriots.[/quote]</p> No, the burden of proof always falls on the person making a claim. If you have a claim, back it with evidence or STFU. </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']You cant have it both ways. You cant say everyone cheats, and this is 1 time thing. Patriots biggest cheaters in NFL history.[/QUOTE]</p> I'm not claiming anything that I haven't submitted evidence for. <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">You are</span>. Therefore you need to present evidence of your charges. If you can't what we have are unsubstantiated charges from a fan bitter that his team has zero chance of winning a Superbowl because it starts the worst QB in the NFL.</p>[/QUOTE] I dont have to back up evidence. I claim they cheated every game. You claim they dont. You provide the evidence they didnt</p>[/QUOTE] No you provide the evidence they did cheat, then we'll defend it and tell you how they didn't. Simple as that. Comprende?</p> </p>
[quote name='CelticKing'][quote name='BearsFan1'][quote name='ehmunro'] [quote name='BearsFan1']No. Thats not what i am saying. I am saying until you have been caught (Which only the patriots have) All your games are free of suspicion. Once you have been caught you need to accept the taint on every game ever unless you can prove that you didnt cheat in each of those games. Burden falls on the cheaters i.e the patriots.[/quote]</p> No, the burden of proof always falls on the person making a claim. If you have a claim, back it with evidence or STFU. </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']You cant have it both ways. You cant say everyone cheats, and this is 1 time thing. Patriots biggest cheaters in NFL history.[/QUOTE]</p> I'm not claiming anything that I haven't submitted evidence for. <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">You are</span>. Therefore you need to present evidence of your charges. If you can't what we have are unsubstantiated charges from a fan bitter that his team has zero chance of winning a Superbowl because it starts the worst QB in the NFL.</p>[/QUOTE] I dont have to back up evidence. I claim they cheated every game. You claim they dont. You provide the evidence they didnt</p>[/QUOTE] No you provide the evidence they did cheat, then we'll defend it and tell you how they didn't. Simple as that. Comprende?</p> </p>[/QUOTE] Ill just keep making my claims. If you want to dispute them feel free. PATRIOTS ARE CHEATERS. THEY CHEATED TO WIN ALL THIER SUPER BOWLS AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT AND IT DRIVES PATRIOTS FANS CRAZY</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>I dont have to back up evidence. I claim they cheated every game. You claim they dont. You provide the evidence they didnt</div> The person making a claim has to prove it, you've made a claim, I haven't. Until you prove otherwise, what we have is anunsubstantiatedaccusation by a bitter Bears' fan.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>I dont have to back up evidence. I claim they cheated every game. You claim they dont. You provide the evidence they didnt</div> The person making a claim has to prove it, you've made a claim, I haven't. Until you prove otherwise, what we have is anunsubstantiatedaccusation by a bitter Bears' fan.</p></div> Ok, I can live with that. you havent claimed the patriots didnt cheat to win 3 super bowls. That claim is not made. I am happy with my claim being unsubstantiated as long as you have no claim they didnt cheat.</p>
Then we'll accept your tacit admission that you're a bitter Bears fan watching the AFC and knowing that your team doesn't belong on the same field as the Patriots and Colts and are trying to build an alibi for the presumptive 49-7 walloping your team faces if it makes the Super Bowl. As for me, to paraphrase my friend Pete, <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">we're</span> the motherfucking Yankees of the NFL, not only do we not worry about shit like this, we don't even care.
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Put me down as "I don't give a damn what the Patriots do". You gotta beat em on the field. That's that.</font>
Yeah, I mean the Patriots didn't whine about Saban having used illegal audiotapes to prepare the Dolphins last year. They shrugged, accepted responsibility for the loss, and moved on.
