<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>Then we'll accept your tacit admission that you're a bitter Bears fan watching the AFC and knowing that your team doesn't belong on the same field as the Patriots and Colts and are trying to build an alibi for the presumptive 49-7wallopingyour team faces if it makes the Super Bowl. As for me, to paraphrase my friend Pete, <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">we're</span>the motherfucking Yankees of the NFL, not only do we not worry about shit like this, we don't even care.</div> Yep, defend your point by attacking me again. Pretty sad really. This the kind of post that has nothing to do with this thread which is about how the patriots cheated. the cheating patriots is the point. But if it makes you feel better to say i am bitter cuz i am calling the patriots on what they actually did, and you are mad cuz i wont quit my job to investigate so i can post on sportstwo then thats fine with me. Regardless, if you want to claim i am bitter, you better get some proof! LOL</p>
For a thread "all about how the Patriots cheated" there seems a paucity of information about "how the Patriots cheated". Frankly it seems more like a place for fans of other teams to whine that it isn't fair that one of the two most talented teams in the NFL (and the best coached) beats the heck out of the rest of the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>For a thread "all about how the Patriots cheated" there seems a paucity of information about "how the Patriots cheated". Frankly it seems more like a place for fans of other teams to whine that it isn't fair that one of the two most talented teams in the NFL (and the best coached) beats the heck out of the rest of the league.</div> </p> Its a sports discussion forum, not a court of law. I have my opinion (based on the fact the patriots are the only team to have been caught cheating and fined for it) that the patriots cheated in every game they won and lost, and you have your opinion they didnt. However, for some reason when i state mine i get</p> 1) You need to provide proof to make those claims</p> 2) You are a hater</p> 3) You are just bitter</p> So, basically an all out attack on me and my integrity. If that is what you want to make this into, i want you to know i am not going to start attacking you. I wont do it. I will continue to attack the great evil of the NFL which is the New England Patriots.</p>
I haven't called you a hater. I called you bitter. And you most certainly are bitter. And it's understandable. Your team starts the 102nd best QB in the NFL and never makes an attempt to upgrade the position. So you go into every year knowing your team has no chance of winning a Superbowl. So your bitterness against actual contenders is understandable.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>I haven't called you a hater. I called you bitter. And you most certainly are bitter. And it's understandable. Your team starts the 102nd best QB in the NFL and never makes an attempt to upgrade the position. So you go into every year knowing your team has no chance of winning a Superbowl. So your bitterness against actual contenders is understandable.</div> First, i didnt say you called me a hater. </p> Second, why does the discussion keep centering around me? WHY IS A MOD ALLOWED TO CONTINUALLY PERSONALLY ATTACK ME!!!! </p>
This is a horribly ridiculous conversation that's gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off-topic</p> FACT: The Patriots attempted to cheat in one game and got caught before they had the chance to do anything with that information. </p> I think we're forgetting that the Pats were recording during the first quarter and got caught during the first quarter. The information they received was taken from them before they had a chance to look at the tape and do something with it. Does anyone actually think for a single minute that there isn't some offensive coordinator somewhere that is sitting up in a booth with binoculars looking out over the field and sneaking a peek at what the opposing defensive coordinator is signaling in? I'm willing to bet that the only reason why 33 teams aren't doing that is because there are only 32 teams in the NFL.</p> Also worth noting, the Pats were up 7-0 when the tape was taken from them before they had a chance to really analyze it. They won 38-14. That's 31-14 without tape.</p> As for the ridiculous assertion that the Patriots have cheated in every game under Belichick, just shut up. Let us remember for a minute that no Tom Brady means no Super Bowls. And as a reminder, the Brady era only ever started because Bledsoe got hit so hard he suffered injuries that you get in high speed car accidents. Thats really the only fluke I can think of in the Patriots era of dominance.</p> And just for kicks, what about Billick saying that the Jets were cheating by simulating the snap calls? Where's the outrage for that? </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (agoo101284)</div><div class='quotemain'> This is a horribly ridiculous conversation that's gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off-topic</p> FACT: The Patriots attempted to cheat in one game and got caught before they had the chance to do anything with that information. </p> I think we're forgetting that the Pats were recording during the first quarter and got caught during the first quarter. The information they received was taken from them before they had a chance to look at the tape and do something with it. Does anyone actually think for a single minute that there isn't some offensive coordinator somewhere that is sitting up in a booth with binoculars looking out over the field and sneaking a peek at what the opposing defensive coordinator is signaling in? I'm willing to bet that the only reason why 33 teams aren't doing that is because there are only 32 teams in the NFL.</p> Also worth noting, the Pats were up 7-0 when the tape was taken from them before they had a chance to really analyze it. They won 38-14. That's 31-14 without tape.</p> As for the ridiculous assertion that the Patriots have cheated in every game under Belichick, just shut up. Let us remember for a minute that no Tom Brady means no Super Bowls. And as a reminder, the Brady era only ever started because Bledsoe got hit so hard he suffered injuries that you get in high speed car accidents. Thats really the only fluke I can think of in the Patriots era of dominance.</p> And just for kicks, what about Billick saying that the Jets were cheating by simulating the snap calls? Where's the outrage for that?</p> </div> </p> I'm afraid that your fact is wrong. The Patriots got caught cheating in one game. When the cheating hit the news, other stories regarding the Patriots taping at other games began to come out. It's well documented that the Packers had an incident with the Patsies video dude. Here is an article where the Lions had a problem with the Patriots.</p> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...ting/index.html</p> </p>
How about Billick accusing the Jets? Or other accusations that are out there?</p> We all come back to what I've said before, that all teams cheat, or try, or have in the past, and will in the future. Even your precious dolphins have cheated, are cheating and will cheat. Simple as that.</p> The problem here is that you're saying the Patriots have won "only" because they cheated and wouldn't be able to win otherwise. Thats where our problem is because we're telling you that you don't have any facts that they have cheated except the camera incident (which was in the 1st quarter like agoo said). </p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'> How about Billick accusing the Jets? Or other accusations that are out there?</p> We all come back to what I've said before, that all teams cheat, or try, or have in the past, and will in the future. Even your precious dolphins have cheated, are cheating and will cheat. Simple as that.</p> The problem here is that you're saying the Patriots have won "only" because they cheated and wouldn't be able to win otherwise. Thats where our problem is because we're telling you that you don't have any facts that they have cheated except the camera incident (which was in the 1st quarter like agoo said). </p> </p> </p></div> Having evidence of cheating is a million times more credible than you accusing others of cheating with no evidence to support it. All we know at this time is that the Patriots are cheaters. Saying that others "probably" cheated holds no water.</p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'> How about Billick accusing the Jets? Or other accusations that are out there?</p> We all come back to what I've said before, that all teams cheat, or try, or have in the past, and will in the future. Even your precious dolphins have cheated, are cheating and will cheat. Simple as that.</p> The problem here is that you're saying the Patriots have won "only" because they cheated and wouldn't be able to win otherwise. Thats where our problem is because we're telling you that you don't have any facts that they have cheated except the camera incident (which was in the 1st quarter like agoo said). </p> </p> </p></div> Having evidence of cheating is a million times more credible than you accusing others of cheating with no evidence to support it. All we know at this time is that the Patriots are cheaters. Saying that others "probably" cheated holds no water.</p> </p> </p> </div></p> All you have is the 1st quarter vs the Jets. Saying the did so in other games holds no water in this forum. Maybe to you it does. (and those dolphin fans)</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'> How about Billick accusing the Jets? Or other accusations that are out there?</p> We all come back to what I've said before, that all teams cheat, or try, or have in the past, and will in the future. Even your precious dolphins have cheated, are cheating and will cheat. Simple as that.</p> The problem here is that you're saying the Patriots have won "only" because they cheated and wouldn't be able to win otherwise. Thats where our problem is because we're telling you that you don't have any facts that they have cheated except the camera incident (which was in the 1st quarter like agoo said). </p> </p> </p> </div> </p> I've never said that the only reason the Patriots have won was because of cheating. I have said that they didn't deserve their first Super Bowl because Brady fumbled the football. I believe I also said that the Patriots probably did deserve their other two Super Bowls, but the current proof of their cheating (Spygate and Harrison's using HGH) casts doubt on their recent accomplishments. That doubt is well earned by cheating. I do feel bad for the Patriot players, who had nothing to do with cheating. Winning the Super Bowl is a great accomplishment and then morons like Belicheat and Harrison put this stain on it.</p> </p>
No one is saying other teams "probably" cheated. They did and do (even the Goodell memo at the heart of the matter admits that NFL teams regularly do this from the stands). Your statement is like saying saying "NFL players <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">might</span> use steroids". They sure do. Normal human beings don't heal that quickly without a little help from Captain Testosterone or Major HGH. The BALCO scandal should have taught everyone that.
I think its funny that stories come out now about such things.</p> Lets be honest, you're foolish if you can honestly believe that Rodney Harrison was the only person on something during the Super Bowl. You're also foolish if you think that the Patriots are the only ones who try to steal signs from the defense. The Patriots aren't the only ones doing this. They just got caught. Lets remember for a minute that Shawne Merriman became the NFL's most dominate defender since LT (the real LT) with steroids.</p> So what's the big difference between a guy with binoculars taking notes and a video tape? </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>No one is saying other teams "probably" cheated.They did and do(even the Goodell memo at the heart of the matter admits that NFL teams regularly do this from the stands). Your statement is like saying saying "NFL players <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">might</span>use steroids". They sure do. Normal human beings don't heal that quickly without a little help from Captain Testosterone or Major HGH. The BALCO scandal should have taught everyone that.</div> Where is your proof? I don't just assume that everybody is dirty. Perhaps that because I know plenty of people who have high standards and live up to them. I know plenty of people that I trust explicitly because I know that they would rather come out on the short end and still have their honor and integrity. When Mike Holmgren says, on the NFL Network, that he doesn't participate in things like spygate, I believe him until he gives me a solid reason not to. Getting caught and being suspended would qualify as good reasons not to believe him. If you want to argue that everyone's dirty, then give us something. Do you have contacts within the NFL? Are you basing this point on anything but you think that most football players are dirty and cheat?</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'> Where is your proof? I don't just assume that everybody is dirty. Perhaps that because I know plenty of people who have high standards and live up to them. I know plenty of people that I trust explicitly because I know that they would rather come out on the short end and still have their honor and integrity. When Mike Holmgren says, on the NFL Network, that he doesn't participate in things like spygate, I believe him until he gives me a solid reason not to. Getting caught and being suspended would qualify as good reasons not to believe him. If you want to argue that everyone's dirty, then give us something. Do you have contacts within the NFL? Are you basing this point on anything but you think that most football players are dirty and cheat?</p> </div></p> Well you're just assuming that the Patriots cheated their way through superbowls...so now you can't just assume that every other teams cheats or tries cheating. But when its the Pats, it has to be right. </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (agoo101284)</div><div class='quotemain'> I think its funny that stories come out now about such things.</p> Lets be honest, you're foolish if you can honestly believe that Rodney Harrison was the only person on something during the Super Bowl. You're also foolish if you think that the Patriots are the only ones who try to steal signs from the defense. The Patriots aren't the only ones doing this. They just got caught. Lets remember for a minute that Shawne Merriman became the NFL's most dominate defender since LT (the real LT) with steroids.</p> So what's the big difference between a guy with binoculars taking notes and a video tape? </p> </div> </p> Can you guess the main reason that I'm not a Shawn Merriman fan?</p> The big difference is what the rule book says about those activities.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'> Where is your proof? I don't just assume that everybody is dirty. Perhaps that because I know plenty of people who have high standards and live up to them. I know plenty of people that I trust explicitly because I know that they would rather come out on the short end and still have their honor and integrity. When Mike Holmgren says, on the NFL Network, that he doesn't participate in things like spygate, I believe him until he gives me a solid reason not to. Getting caught and being suspended would qualify as good reasons not to believe him. If you want to argue that everyone's dirty, then give us something. Do you have contacts within the NFL? Are you basing this point on anything but you think that most football players are dirty and cheat?</p> </div></p> Well you're just assuming that the Patriots cheated their way through superbowls...so now you can't just assume that every other teams cheats or tries cheating. But when its the Pats, it has to be right. </p> </p> </div> </p> Did you read my post from above? Rodney Harrison has admitted to taking HGH. That's an admission, not an assumption. A newspaper reported that he took HGH before the Super Bowl with the Panthers. I have no reason to doubt the newspaper that printed the article. I'm sure they have their bases covered so that Harrison doesn't sue them for libel. Harrison by his own admission has taken HGH. That sounds like more that an assumption to me.</p> </p>
Well, all the various articles linked to in these threads with multiple examples of coaches in every sport at every time cheating is certainly evidence that it's pretty universal. The NFL tests for performance enhancers, but as track coaches will tell you PEDs are developed faster than the tests to catch them. I'll also say that one of my friends is a former NFL nose tackle (whose career was as short as the majority of them), and I've heard from him how prevalent all forms of steroids were in his college locker room and in the NFL. Even he used them so as to stay in the NFL (despite the fact that he knew they were damaging, but playing in the NFL was more important to him, and he wasn't an idiot, he got an MBA after). The human body just isn't designed to take the pounding that NFL players take on a weekly basis (this just another reason that they tend to die young), and they certainly would struggle to do it without any chemistry.
So what are we saying here then? If you want to watch to the best do their best than realize what needs to happen to accomplish this?</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shookem)</div><div class='quotemain'> So what are we saying here then? If you want to watch to the best do their best than realize what needs to happen to accomplish this?</p> </p></div> If the premise is that football, in it's current state, can't be played without illegal substances, then the game needs to change in other ways. However, I'm going to need a little more proof to believe that. I know football is a rough game, but I also know a guy who plays rugby on an extremely competitive level and he would never consider taking any kind of drug to help him play. I have to believe that football can also be played without the use of drugs.</p>
