<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Nov 24 2006, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade can be playmaker and scorer when need be. He has proven that throughout his career.I don't know what this was referring to, but Bron was also 39% from outside of paint last year as well. AI probably isn't much better, either.</div> Wade at the wing would just fail because he has no jumper. And especially with out poor execution last season, wade would find himself many a time with the ball at the 3 point line with the shotclock going down. And unlike kobe, wade can't bail the lakers out from long range.Simple fact is that wade would fail in the triangle.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Nov 24 2006, 12:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But this isn't about LeBron or AI...how well is Kobe shooting from outside the paint?</div>Outside of 15ft Kobe is shooting 32% this season. Wade is shooting a little bit more than 1% less.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wade at the wing would just fail because he has no jumper. And especially with out poor execution last season, wade would find himself many a time with the ball at the 3 point line with the shotclock going down. And unlike kobe, wade can't bail the lakers out from long range.Simple fact is that wade would fail in the triangle.</div>I never once said that Wade would have gotten Lakers to playoffs last year. I think he could have succeeded in 2nd half of seaosn when teammates were finally acclimated with triangle, but in 1st half Kobe totally carried that team. This year, if Kobe stays playmaker and they don't nee dhis 40PPG months, I feel Wade could do just as good of a job.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Nov 24 2006, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Outside of 15ft Kobe is shooting 32% this season. Wade is shooting a little bit more than 1% less.I never once said that Wade would have gotten Lakers to playoffs last year. I think he could have succeeded in 2nd half of seaosn when teammates were finally acclimated with triangle, but in 1st half Kobe totally carried that team. This year, if Kobe stays playmaker and they don't nee dhis 40PPG months, I feel Wade could do just as good of a job.</div>Until recently, kobe bryant couldn't even make his patent jumpshot contested. That's him recovering from surgery. Last season he shot 46% on jumpshots. Wade 38. Wade's shooting .311 from outisde of the paint. Seriously, he would flop in the handcheck era.Secondly, wade has nothing on kobe at any position. There's much more than passing in the triangle, playing that iniator position. Kobe bryant's a floor general, he is like phil jackson on the basketball court. He has to make sure the offense runs smoothly, direct players, play defense and make sure he is dynamite offensively. I'm sorry but I don't see wade as a floor general like kobe is. There is so much more to the triangle system, wade can't touch kobe in any position in the offense. The only thing wade would have is he is more willing and kobe has shown this season he is willing to share.And can wade play the wing and swith when the situations asks for? Can he bail out the offense when the execution fails? Can he play elite defense?Wade couldn't even do half of the job kobe is and did do. Kobe bryant's job trancends passing alone. Kobe right now is doing the job mj and pippen had to do together. Pretty amazing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Nov 24 2006, 03:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Until recently, kobe bryant couldn't even make his patent jumpshot contested. That's him recovering from surgery. Last season he shot 46% on jumpshots. Wade 38. Wade's shooting .311 from outisde of the paint. Seriously, he would flop in the handcheck era.</div>Kobe wouldn't be as effective either, so that's a moot point. AI was great in the handcheck and non-handcheck era, and Wade is better and more efficinet offensively....he'd do fine. A<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Secondly, wade has nothing on kobe at any position. There's much more than passing in the triangle, playing that iniator position. Kobe bryant's a floor general, he is like phil jackson on the basketball court. He has to make sure the offense runs smoothly, direct players, play defense and make sure he is dynamite offensively. I'm sorry but I don't see wade as a floor general like kobe is. There is so much more to the triangle system, wade can't touch kobe in any position in the offense. The only thing wade would have is he is more willing and kobe has shown this season he is willing to share.</div>Wade is a totally different ball player than Kobe, who knows what Phil would do with wade in triangle or how Wade would react. All I know is he has the skills to be initiator of offense and make plays for teammates, hit the midrange jumper, and drive at will on an offense that when it's clicking allow lots of spacing. That is what you have seenw ith Kobe this year attacking rim. Yes, he has been more agressive, but his teammates playing better in the triangle has also been a factor.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And can wade play the wing and swith when the situations asks for? Can he bail out the offense when the execution fails? Can he play elite defense?Wade couldn't even do half of the job kobe is and did do. Kobe bryant's job trancends passing alone. Kobe right now is doing the job mj and pippen had to do together. Pretty amazing.</div>Again, I am not saying Wade is a better player or scorer than Kobe. I never said he could do a better job than what Kobe did last year....I don't think ANYONE in the league could have. But this year, as a playmaker, I feel he could do the job Kobe is doing. No, Wade won't go off for 80 pts or outscore another team through 3 quarters. No, he won't play lockdown D on the other team's best player. But he will get you around 30PPG on a very good FG %, he will get you a lot of assists, he will play very good off ball and help defense, he will rebound very well, and he will come up in the clutch.
I seriously don't think you understand what I'm saying. Kobe bryant isn't playing full time playmaker, that is false. Many times last game you would see lamar doing that. You see, wade could only play one position in the triangle, he wouldn't be effective at any other position. Kobe's mastered both. Wade's jumpshot is weak evidecne 38% on jumpshots last season. Our offense even in the 2nd half sometimes failed and kobe was the guy who had to bail them out from long range. Wade wouldn't be able to do such a thing.Wade is simply not the floor manager that kobe is, it's much much more than passing. Just watch kobe on the court and you'll see what I'm saying. Sometimes you would think he is play-coach. He has mastered the offense which makes him much much more effective than wade could ever be.I'm telling you right now, wade couldn't do the job kobe did in the 2nd half. That is drop 30+ (and 40+ in april) and balance the offense out. And play tough on ball defense and read the lanes. Beleive me, wade wouldn't even come close.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I seriously don't think you understand what I'm saying. Kobe bryant isn't playing full time playmaker, that is false. Many times last game you would see lamar doing that. You see, wade could only play one position in the triangle, he wouldn't be effective at any other position. Kobe's mastered both. Wade's jumpshot is weak evidecne 38% on jumpshots last season. Our offense even in the 2nd half sometimes failed and kobe was the guy who had to bail them out from long range. Wade wouldn't be able to do such a thing.</div>No, Wade can be a playmaker and scorer. You say wade's jumpshot is weak, yet Kobe was only 39% from 15ft and out last season (AI was 36% as well....shooting under 40% from that far away is fairly the norm). The only time Kobe ABSOLUTELY NEEDED to take those long jump shots was with time winding down. But when the offense was stagnant and still hit a 18ft+ jumpshot, Wade could take it to hole. As you have seen this year, when the triangle is properly run, it allows for a player like kobe or Wade to get to basket, even if not healthy like Kobe is. And stop getting so technical with the triangle, even though the execution is complicated, it also is very versatile and could make small tweaks to maximize Wade's abilities. Even without Kobe and without healthy Kobe for first 5-7 games or so the Lakers ran the triangle fantastically and properly.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wade is simply not the floor manager that kobe is, it's much much more than passing. Just watch kobe on the court and you'll see what I'm saying. Sometimes you would think he is play-coach. He has mastered the offense which makes him much much more effective than wade could ever be.I'm telling you right now, wade couldn't do the job kobe did in the 2nd half. That is drop 30+ (and 40+ in april) and balance the offense out. And play tough on ball defense and read the lanes. Beleive me, wade wouldn't even come close.</div>I never said Kobe could do what the Lakers did last year. But this year, lakers showed they could run it properly without Kobe, and with an unhealthy Kobe that drove to basket and playmaked. Put Wade into triangle, make a few tweaks, and he'd thrive in it as well.
I believe Kobe Bryant is the best player in this league... I like him a lot, he's a helluva lotta fun to watch, no doubt...BUTIn my opinion, DWade is that much more entertaining for me to watch... Is he a better player than Kobe? No... But I like him more as a player, if there's a game on with the Heat vs. Someone and the Lakers vs. Someone.... And both games are on at the same time... I'm going to watch the Heat game, because Wade is my man!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mind Game @ Nov 23 2006, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So there has been some contrversory with that all Current NBA team about whose better....I say Wade of courseTally-Wade: 1Kobe: 6</div><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">Just for the record, there is a simpler way to get tallies... It's called the "Voting-Thing-A-Ma-Jigger".Anyway, I believe Kobe Bryant is better. DWade may get his teammates more involved, but Kobe can take over a game and make sure victory is inevitable.</span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Illosophee @ Nov 25 2006, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">but Kobe can take over a game and make sure victory is inevitable.</span></div>Did you see the NBA Finals, or what Wade did to the Pistons back in like February?
Nitro,<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe won with Shaq putting up over 30PPG in Finals. Last year Shaq was at 14PPG for the series agains the Mavs, and Heat were down 0-2 and 10pts with 5min to go in game 3. Wade ended up hitting a few GW's, passed for GW, made a game saving steal, and averaged 40PPG through next 4 games. I don't think Kobe could have better'd or replicated that performance.</div>I know Shaq didn't score as much as he did when he was on the Lakers. But when I said, "he did it with Shaq before," I was reffering to the fact that they can both put aside their egos/dislike for each other and win the games.Why couldn't Kobe do the same thing? I mean, Kobe averaged 35 PPG in the whole season! You don't think he can average 40 PPG? He did have a 81 point game, so he has scored over 40 points before (I just wanted to sneak that 81 game in).Also, why couldn't have Kobe hit those game winners. You can't actually think Wade is the better clutch shooter than Kobe, well you could, it just isn't true.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drake24 @ Nov 25 2006, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nitro,I know Shaq didn't score as much as he did when he was on the Lakers. But when I said, "he did it with Shaq before," I was reffering to the fact that they can both put aside their egos/dislike for each other and win the games.Why couldn't Kobe do the same thing? I mean, Kobe averaged 35 PPG in the whole season! You don't think he can average 40 PPG? He did have a 81 point game, so he has scored over 40 points before (I just wanted to sneak that 81 game in).Also, why couldn't have Kobe hit those game winners. You can't actually think Wade is the better clutch shooter than Kobe, well you could, it just isn't true.</div>When Kobe started to blossom they couldn't put their egos aside, specifically Shaq.I don't think Kobe could have duplicated what Wade did. I don't think he would have driven as much, which for Wade meant getting to line a TON. Assuming Kobe wa sin same situation as Wade was, down 0-2, and down 10pts with 5min to go in 4th of game 3, I don't think he would have done what Wade did or better'd through next 3 and 1/4 games. He may have averaged 40PPG and made it a 7 game series, but no, I don't think he could have done all that Wade did from game 3-6. Of course I could be wrong, and this IS the team he outscored by himself in 3 quarters, but I just don't think he could have better'd what Wade did.I never said he couldn't hit those game winners, but it would be extremely tough to do all that Wade did in the clutch in that series. And you can definately make a case for Wade being better clutch player despite me agreeing with you that Kobe is a better clutch player. I mean for every clutch shot Kobe has hit, he has also taken fadeaway 30ftr's over triple teams despite other players like Lamar being wide open. He did this twice in a row last year. Wade tends to take easier and smarter shots in clutch than Kobe, although Kobe is amazing at hitting impossible shots when needed (see: last game of 2004 vs Blazers).But yes, there is no player in league I'd rather have with ball with time winding down than Kobe.
I would take Kobe over Wade any day of the week. People don't seem to understand how unselfish he is this season he is passing the ball more and showed he can still pour 20 plus with an injury. He is a better leader than Wade because you watch Laker games he is the one giving the directions as they happen on the court. Why is he a ballhog? He needs to be because look at the team last year. They had raw and unconfident players. He can drop 50 any day of the week he is just that damn good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Nov 26 2006, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When Kobe started to blossom they couldn't put their egos aside, specifically Shaq.I don't think Kobe could have duplicated what Wade did. I don't think he would have driven as much, which for Wade meant getting to line a TON. Assuming Kobe wa sin same situation as Wade was, down 0-2, and down 10pts with 5min to go in 4th of game 3, I don't think he would have done what Wade did or better'd through next 3 and 1/4 games. He may have averaged 40PPG and made it a 7 game series, but no, I don't think he could have done all that Wade did from game 3-6. Of course I could be wrong, and this IS the team he outscored by himself in 3 quarters, but I just don't think he could have better'd what Wade did.I never said he couldn't hit those game winners, but it would be extremely tough to do all that Wade did in the clutch in that series. And you can definately make a case for Wade being better clutch player despite me agreeing with you that Kobe is a better clutch player. I mean for every clutch shot Kobe has hit, he has also taken fadeaway 30ftr's over triple teams despite other players like Lamar being wide open. He did this twice in a row last year. Wade tends to take easier and smarter shots in clutch than Kobe, although Kobe is amazing at hitting impossible shots when needed (see: last game of 2004 vs Blazers).But yes, there is no player in league I'd rather have with ball with time winding down than Kobe.</div>That has nothing to do with kobe as a clutch player. It points to Kobe having the ultimate confidence or selfishness. Besides, kobe shooting over triples has more of a chance than lamar making a clutch shot. After all, kobe has made shots like that. How many times has lamar made a gamewinning shot?Not condoning kobe's antics. Just saying that it has nothing to do with kobe as a clutch player. Our late game tactis last season were horrible and predictable. One game against boston, lamar was free under the basket. But what happens? Luke walton passes it to kobe who has to jack up a stupid shots. Many a time, kobe is forced to take these type of shots. Bad execution late is the reason why. This season, I've seen luke walton making big shots. And kwame making big plays.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Nov 26 2006, 03:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That has nothing to do with kobe as a clutch player. It points to Kobe having the ultimate confidence or selfishness. Besides, kobe shooting over triples has more of a chance than lamar making a clutch shot. After all, kobe has made shots like that. How many times has lamar made a gamewinning shot?</div>Give me an open look from Lamar over a Kobe fadeaway guarded by 3 people anyday. Yes, Kobe has made shots like that before, but the better look is to the open man. I used that, not just because Wade drew fouls and such and always got easy looks at basket, but because of the assist he made to GP to win the game in game 3. GP hadn't even taken a shot up until that point, but he was ungaurded and Wade was doubled, and he made the right decision. Would Kobe have made that pass? I'm not so sure.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Not condoning kobe's antics. Just saying that it has nothing to do with kobe as a clutch player. Our late game tactis last season were horrible and predictable. One game against boston, lamar was free under the basket. But what happens? Luke walton passes it to kobe who has to jack up a stupid shots. Many a time, kobe is forced to take these type of shots. Bad execution late is the reason why. This season, I've seen luke walton making big shots. And kwame making big plays.</div>I agree, last season many times Kobe was forced to take bad shots. But I saw games where he had a chance to pass it to open men, which even if they missed would give them some confidence and conditioning in that area, but instead Kobe takes a horrible fadeaway over triple and double team from way beyond the 3pt line. That does affect his clutch play, but again, I feel he is the best clutch player in the NBA right now. I want no one with the ball in their hands with 10 seconds to go in game than Kobe.
Why don't you think Kobe could replicate Wade's performance in the Finals?Wade's amazing feat is something that Kobe could have EASILY pulled out of his ass. 40ppg? Come on! Especially when you consider the fact that the Mav's are completely incompitent against good shooting guards.Kobe is the better player by a good margin. Remember, Wade's Finals performance was only 4 games and against the same team every time. Kobe played at that level for the entire season and he did it with inferior support. Kobe didn't have the luxury of Shaq drawing away defenders and he still put up 35ppg, and on nothing but jumpers and fallaways no less!I'm not saying Wade couldn't do that for a few games, everybody gets hot, but he could not sustain that level as long as Kobe could.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Nov 27 2006, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Give me an open look from Lamar over a Kobe fadeaway guarded by 3 people anyday. Yes, Kobe has made shots like that before, but the better look is to the open man. I used that, not just because Wade drew fouls and such and always got easy looks at basket, but because of the assist he made to GP to win the game in game 3. GP hadn't even taken a shot up until that point, but he was ungaurded and Wade was doubled, and he made the right decision. Would Kobe have made that pass? I'm not so sure.I agree, last season many times Kobe was forced to take bad shots. But I saw games where he had a chance to pass it to open men, which even if they missed would give them some confidence and conditioning in that area, but instead Kobe takes a horrible fadeaway over triple and double team from way beyond the 3pt line. That does affect his clutch play, but again, I feel he is the best clutch player in the NBA right now. I want no one with the ball in their hands with 10 seconds to go in game than Kobe.</div>Um... Kobe has proven in the playoffs that he passes. Who passed to Horry for the 3 against the blazers? Kobe. If his teamates are open and it's in the playoffs bryant passes. Period. Wade's man to man d has regressed. It's good to see his team d is better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Nov 28 2006, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Um... Kobe has proven in the playoffs that he passes. Who passed to Horry for the 3 against the blazers? Kobe. If his teamates are open and it's in the playoffs bryant passes. Period. Wade's man to man d has regressed. It's good to see his team d is better.</div>Don't forget in the WCF against Portland in Game 3 when Kobe drove and dished to the open Ron Harper for the GW.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Nov 28 2006, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying Wade couldn't do that for a few games, everybody gets hot, but he could not sustain that level as long as Kobe could.</div>I never said Wade was the scorer Kobe is, but in Wade's defense I don't think Kobe could put up 30/12 for 3 straight games, put up the assists Wade puts up, and naturally Wade is the more effiicient scorer because of his agressiveness to the basket. Wade has played very well against many teams, you don't put up 27/7/6 on 50% shooting by not playing at a very high level against the whole league.melo-Again, I'm not saying that he wouldn't, but for a long time Kobe has taken extremely difficult shots while other players are wide open. To his defense, he makes a helluva lot of them, which is why he is the best clutch performer in the league. But many times he takes extremely tough shots over double and triple teams where there are men open, and I don't think those type of shots would have been as effective as Wade's shot selection in Finals in 4th quarters (midrange and driving to basket).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Nov 29 2006, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I never said Wade was the scorer Kobe is, but in Wade's defense I don't think Kobe could put up 30/12 for 3 straight games, put up the assists Wade puts up, and naturally Wade is the more effiicient scorer because of his agressiveness to the basket. Wade has played very well against many teams, you don't put up 27/7/6 on 50% shooting by not playing at a very high level against the whole league.melo-Again, I'm not saying that he wouldn't, but for a long time Kobe has taken extremely difficult shots while other players are wide open. To his defense, he makes a helluva lot of them, which is why he is the best clutch performer in the league. But many times he takes extremely tough shots over double and triple teams where there are men open, and I don't think those type of shots would have been as effective as Wade's shot selection in Finals in 4th quarters (midrange and driving to basket).</div>You are talking about regular season kobe. Kobe plays smart ball during the playoffs, runs the offense. Game 6 was kobe trying to close out the series and he would've been succesful had we got that rebound which led to tt's 3. Kobe bryant isn't stupid. He he has destroyed the mavs through penetration. Man, Josh howard had to clothesline kobe to stop him for driving. Kobe has shown he can adapt. Dallas couldn't stop kobe during the regular season. They haven't been able to stop him for about 3 years. Kobe would've destroyed them by himself.
with the way kobe has showed improvement this season while only bing 80%, being a complete player, KB24 hands down.
