Watch the Clippers-Nets game on TNT and pay close attention to Maggette. He consistently drives, thus he consistently gets the benefit of the doubt on calls. He's had two questionable calls in his favour tonight. Find another argument other than the finals, its getting annoying. I think Og15 already established that the refs were foul-happy all playoffs, and were giving the stars the calls. Did you expect the refs to give equal numbers of Fts to each team? Obviously, the Heat were more aggressive all series, so I expect them to attempt more FTs than the mavs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">0g15, the Mavericks averaged 36.14224138 (do the decimals impress you? heh) Free throws a game as a team during the playoffs. They clearly were not getting enough fouls called in the series (the Mavs averaged 25.833 FTpg as a team in the Finals).</div> Yahoo had them averaging 28.1 FTA/G through the whole playoffs, so even before the finals, 36.1 FTA/G does not work. There's obviously the fact that if they had gotten a certain play, everything else wouldn't turn out exatly the same. And seriously, I don't care enough about this (the finals) to go and analyze things about it.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Watch the Clippers-Nets game on TNT and pay close attention to Maggette. He consistently drives, thus he consistently gets the benefit of the doubt on calls. He's had two questionable calls in his favour tonight. Find another argument other than the finals, its getting annoying. I think Og15 already established that the refs were foul-happy all playoffs, and were giving the stars the calls. Did you expect the refs to give equal numbers of Fts to each team? Obviously, the Heat were more aggressive all series, so I expect them to attempt more FTs than the mavs.</div> Do you just make up stuff to get the last word in? I only care about the Finals, thus I only talk about that. Lol you're serious? What do I care if talking about this is annoying to you; I could say you ignoring my points is annoying, but I don't. And how has this refuted any points about the Mavs getting screwed? You have done a more in-depth analysis of game five than Roland Beech or something? Give me a break fellow.
<div class="quote_poster">og15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yahoo had them averaging 28.1 FTA/G through the whole playoffs, so even before the finals, 36.1 FTA/G does not work. </div> Ah well, I was using a different way of measuring FTpg. I used the per player per game stat. I am still correct. It amounts to the same thing, that the Heat were getting too many calls. They averaged 39 FTs as a team in their wins (the Heat were favored an extra 7.784 FTs taking into account pre and post final FT average per team). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> There's obviously the fact that if they had gotten a certain play, everything else wouldn't turn out exatly the same. And seriously, I don't care enough about this (the finals) to go and analyze things about it.</div> If you don't care then don't enter this part of the argument.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well if Roland Beech says it, then it must be true.</div> How have you addressed any of the other points I recently made? Why is his analysis invalid? He's the founder of the stat site og, durvasa, and others leech off from. I guess if a subjective fanboy disagrees, Beech must be full of it (not really).
How can I adress your points? They're all the same, just consisting of you whining about the finals. We've argued with you for a few pages over this and still haven't come to an unsubjective conclusion. So, no, you are not "still correct," nobody is, because people have different views and biases affecting the overall issue here.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can I adress your points? They're all the same, just consisting of you whining about the finals. We've argued with you for a few pages over this and still haven't come to an unsubjective conclusion. So, no, you are not "still correct," nobody is, because people have different views and biases affecting the overall issue here.</div> I don't think it takes much to connect the dots. Let us see, the Mavs lost 13 out of 18 questionable calls including a call that had 3 messed up plays in one, and they lost by one point; how is that whining? Then you go on to say that Beech's analysis was "inconclusive" and that Wade getting 18 FT per win was normal. Whining is saying "discussing this issue is annoying thus we should stop" or something to that effect.
I think Beech may be a little subjective himself in that article, otherwise he probably wouldn't have made it in the first place. Remember, these aren't "hard stats", they're his opinion on the validity of a call. I think a better question is, why would the refs deliberately favour the Heat throughout a 7-game series? What do they have to gain? I really can't think of a reason, maybe you can.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think Beech may be a little subjective himself in that article, otherwise he probably wouldn't have made it in the first place.</div> So you're not subjective but he is? Incredible. Wade got 25 FTs, that deserves some analyzing. You have a poor eye then; you don't remember the end of that game, it was an attention grabber. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Remember, these aren't "hard stats", they're his opinion on the validity of a call. I think a better question is, why would the refs deliberately favour the Heat throughout a 7-game series?</div> They're just idiots, they're not rigging the Finals. And it was a six game series btw. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> What do they have to gain? I really can't think of a reason, maybe you can.</div> So if they didn't have anything to gain, it is not possible for them to officiate poorly?
When did I say I wasn't subjective, I'll be the first to admit I am, but you are too. My bad, 6-game series, not that that had any effect on the point I was trying to make. These guys make bad calls, but they're still the best we've got. I'd rather them than those FIBA idiots. I'm out for the night though.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">When did I say I wasn't subjective, I'll be the first to admit I am, but you are too. My bad, 6-game series, not that that had any effect on the point I was trying to make. These guys make bad calls, but they're still the best we've got. I'd rather them than those FIBA idiots. I'm out for the night though.</div> Not really, it seems like I am a lot less subjective than you (how many people admit that their favorite team stole a title?). What is so farfetched about saying a team that lost by one point got screwed after reading what Beech posted? And he has all the "hardcore street cred" to boost; I don't see any hidden agenda from him.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think it takes much to connect the dots. Let us see, the Mavs lost 13 out of 18 questionable calls including a call that had 3 messed up plays in one, and they lost by one point; how is that whining? Then you go on to say that Beech's analysis was "inconclusive" and that Wade getting 18 FT per win was normal.</div> Mavs were on the road, in the playoffs, and the Heat were the aggressors down the stretch. That explains the bias.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Mavs were on the road, in the playoffs, and the Heat were the aggressors down the stretch. That explains the bias.</div> It doesn't matter if they were on the road. The refs are still idiots aren't they? The Heat were not better than the Mavs that day (taking everything into consideration).
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It doesn't matter if they were on the road. The refs are still idiots aren't they? The Heat were not better than the Mavs that day (taking everything into consideration).</div> It certainly does matter. You're charging that there was a specific bias towards the Heat, and using analysis of the calls in that game as proof. But the home team is going to get the benefit of close calls, in a big playoff game, down the stretch. I'm not saying that makes it ok, but that's the reality. If the situation was reversed, the game was in Dallas, and the Mavs were mounting a come back and being the aggressors, they probably would have gotten most of the calls down the stretch too.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you don't care then don't enter this part of the argument.</div> I'd be very glad to exit it, I really don't know what I'm arguing against, because I've never claimed the officiating was close to spectacular in the series, or in Game 5. I just don't see any actual factual or reasonable reasoning as to why the refs would've just wanted Miami to win.
<div class="quote_poster">og15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'd be very glad to exit it, I really don't know what I'm arguing against, because I've never claimed the officiating was close to spectacular in the series, or in Game 5. I just don't see any actual factual or reasonable reasoning as to why the refs would've just wanted Miami to win.</div> Who said the refs wanted Miami to win? I have repeatedly stated that I was not saying this (you haven't been following the thread). I'm just stating that they were officiating poorly which is pretty clear; people just like to say it always happens as a pretext. Going by what I (and others; eg Beech) saw in game five, the Mavs deserved at least a game seven. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It certainly does matter. You're charging that there was a specific bias towards the Heat, and using analysis of the calls in that game as proof. But the home team is going to get the benefit of close calls, in a big playoff game, down the stretch. I'm not saying that makes it ok, but that's the reality. If the situation was reversed, the game was in Dallas, and the Mavs were mounting a come back and being the aggressors, they probably would have gotten most of the calls down the stretch too.</div> I am not charging the refs with intentional bias towards the Heat, just clearing up what happened (they were lame). And reality sucks, so what? The refs unfairly took over that game in the end.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I am not charging the refs with intentional bias towards the Heat, just clearing up what happened (they were lame). And reality sucks, so what? The refs unfairly took over that game in the end.</div> It happens all the time. The home team will usually get the benefit of most of the close calls in a game, particularly in a tight game down the stretch. Bias towards the home team is practically a part of the game. The Mavs should have taken advantage of it in game 6.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who said the refs wanted Miami to win? I have repeatedly stated that I was not saying this (you haven't been following the thread). I'm just stating that they were officiating poorly which is pretty clear; people just like to say it always happens as a pretext. Going by what I (and others; eg Beech) saw in game five, the Mavs deserved at least a game seven.</div> Then we're not arguing against each other, so...
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It happens all the time. The home team will usually get the benefit of most of the close calls in a game, particularly in a tight game down the stretch. Bias towards the home team is practically a part of the game. The Mavs should have taken advantage of it in game 6.</div> I don't think Finals games end in a quite dubious fashion very often.
