Yes, having evidence to back up your claims makes your point of view far more compelling. I don't buy into dogma of any kind. Especially when that includes moving power and control away from the population as a whole into the hands of a ruling class. Bring the evidence or you're not going to have a good time.
Maybe Snowden had the purest of intentions, but his actions were way out of proportion to the harm he was trying to address, and running away rather than facing the consequences of his actions removed any moral high ground he might have had. barfo
We wouldn't know our rights were being violated by our government if he didn't do what he did. There was no way for a single individual to parse that much information for evidence, and the government wouldn't allow a review or even an audit when he tried the proper channels. He had no choice, other than being part of the problem.
What you are calling “Dogma” everyone else considers common sense. Sorry that ship sinks in your muddy water.
The water which is only muddy because it requires evidence. Gotcha. Have you considered the new MAGA overlord? He hates facts and evidence as well...
What other choice was there? Aside from not running and spending his life in jail. I admit it was a choice he had, but I also don't blame him for running.
I thought you wanted facts? Where are these facts that say he would have spent his life in jail? Would he have been incarcerated? Yes most likely. Would he have been allowed his day in court? I guess you are suggesting he would not have been?
Maybe not give everything he stole to the Chinese and Russians? Just spitballing here. And I do blame him for running. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I think I heard that somewhere. barfo
He didn't, as far as I've seen. He gave it to well respected reporters before he left. Why do you think he gave it to the Chinese and Russia? If there is some evidence that would certainly change my opinion.
Edward Snowden’s Real Impact What did China and Russia learn about American surveillance operations from Snowden—and what will they do with this information? As part of Snowden’s flight from American justice, he went to two of the most repressive and technologically sophisticated countries on earth. (Hong Kong is, of course, part of China.) In an interview with Greenwald, Snowden said that the authorities in those countries behaved like perfect gentlemen. “I never gave any information to either government, and they never took anything from my laptops,” Snowden said. Oh, really? Is he serious? Should anyone believe a word of this? China and Russia spend billions of dollars conducting counterintelligence against the United States. An American citizen walks into their countries bearing the keys to our most secret programs, and both—both!—China and Russia decline to take even a peek. That is a preposterous proposition. Even assuming that Snowden believes he had control of his computers 24/7 (he never slept?), there is simply no way that China and Russia would pass up that kind of bounty.
He didn't have the data in those countries, from everything I've seen. He didn't have it for them to take, by design.
So we should just assume he did. That's what this article says. He could have lived his life as a wealthy Russian if he just sold the data to them. Russia would have gladly given him an alternative identity. He didn't need to go to the press if he was just going to sell the data to Russia and China. There is no logic involved here. This is propaganda.
I didn't say he would spend the rest of his life in jail. I said he had every reason to think he might. Look at the way the US has treated others who tried to do it the right way. And Thomas Drake isn't the only one. https://americanswhotellthetruth.org/portraits/thomas-drake/
Then everything you've seen is based on Snowden's own comments. No wonder you're convinced. You're suggesting he left everything behind and hasn't had any of it in nearly a decade? All there is is logic. You just choose to dismiss it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Size_and_scope_of_disclosures On June 14, 2015, the London Sunday Times reported that Russian and Chinese intelligence services had decrypted more than 1 million classified files in the Snowden cache, forcing the UK's MI6intelligence agency to move agents out of live operations in hostile countries. Sir David Omand, a former director of the UK's GCHQ intelligence gathering agency, described it as a huge strategic setback that was harming Britain, America, and their NATO allies. The Sunday Times said it was not clear whether Russia and China stole Snowden's data or whether Snowden voluntarily handed it over to remain at liberty in Hong Kong and Moscow.[111][112] In April 2015, the Henry Jackson Society, a British neoconservativethink tank, published a report claiming that Snowden's intelligence leaks negatively impacted Britain's ability to fight terrorism and organized crime.[113] Gus Hosein, executive director of Privacy International, criticized the report for, in his opinion, presuming that the public became concerned about privacy only after Snowden's disclosures.[114] But I get the impression you wouldn't be convinced if I had him drive over to your house and confess. It's all just fake news! Sounds like someone else.
...continued from another thread Here is some more fun reading from somebody who actually knows something about it... https://www.wired.com/2015/06/course-china-russia-snowden-documents/
