OT El Paso shooting: 22 Dead, 24 Inured. Dayton shooting: 9 Dead, 16 Injured

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by EL PRESIDENTE, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    I agree with this. Generalizations can be just as bad as a direct insult.
     
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  2. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. I realize we make your job (that you volunteer for) harder than it needs to be. I appreciate the dialogue. I still sometimes think things can go from 1-100 really freaking fast at times, but thats the nature of allowing people to speak their opinions. Ive been at a number of community things, have friendships that have sprouted from here.
     
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  3. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    Really? I don't find anything healthy or fun about generalizations. In fact, I'm pretty sure that many Liberals are staunchly against this when the President supposedly does it. In fact....they tell me it "generates the same hate and volatility" as a personal insult.

    I think this was a poor choice of words on your part, Sly.
     
  4. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig Blazersland Staff Member Moderator

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    Generalizations? I stated fact.
     
  5. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    You stated facts about those shooters. Not about Trump voters or gun owners.

    And by the way, his Manifesto specifically said Trump had nothing to do with his actions.

    But according to you, I guess I'm supposed to blame Maxine Waters for ANTIFA, shooting Republicans at a baseball game, and fire bombing a detention facility in Seattle?
     
  6. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig Blazersland Staff Member Moderator

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    His manifesto said he was a white nationalist before Trump. Trump emboldened him with his divisive rhetoric.

    I said these shooters yesterday and in California a week ago are white nationalist/supremacists emboldened by Trump. They are Trump fanboys. Facts

    Again, if that makes you feel associated with them. That is not on me.
     
  7. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    Opinion based on emotion and not fact, nor did he say anything about being a white nationalist. Trump is no more responsible for this man's actions than Obama was for Micah Xavier Johnson killing police officers in Dallas. Or do you want to blame that one on BLM?
     
  8. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig Blazersland Staff Member Moderator

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    Trump is responsible. He goes around spewing hateful rhetoric about immigrants and minorities. Guys that are listening to him are taking what he is saying and going and killing masses of people. That is a very dangerous thing and needs to be looked at.
     
  9. Fez Forthright

    Fez Forthright スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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    Maga guys will never admit this.

    It's time to deflect - it's their M.O.
     
  10. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    Bullshit. He's no more responsible for this than Maxine Waters is for some Liberals who hate the police and white people. Stop this nonsense.

    If you don't have enough self-control to be out in society without killing innocent people, then it doesn't matter who says what....you are going to go off at anything. If it wasn't hatred of corporations, those who pollute the environment, and Mexicans, then it probably would have been a road rage incident or killing his domestic spouse/girlfriend/domestic partner.

    Self control is a thing. Personal responsibility is a reality. Obama said things I didn't agree with In fact, many politicians have said things I don't agree with....and yet, never once have I ever even come close to considering mass murder.

    These people are crazy. Psychos. Are we REALLY going to allow them to dictate the policies or rhetoric of this country through violent actions?
     
  11. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    That's cool. I totally get what you mean. And I agree I could have said that better.

    I've been doing yard work before the heat really starts to blast. Run around mow lawn, get sweaty, run back in to cool off, post, run back out to do more yard work. Rinse and repeat about 5 times so far.
     
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  12. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    I appreciate that Sly, thank you. Now go roll in the leaves like a good dog. :biglaugh: Enjoy your yard work, and remember to stay hydrated!!!
     
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  13. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig Blazersland Staff Member Moderator

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    The policies and rhetoric of this country are dictating their violent actions.

    Were Waters or Obama using hateful rhetoric? How does the the things they have said compare with the length Trump has gone? It is certainly a conversation to be had. Public officials, especially those in the highest level of office can provoke a deep influence and hold a responsibility to the things they say and what those comments cause.

    You say these shooters lack self control. So lets give them access to assault rifles.
     
  14. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    Was the Dayton asshat a Trump guy?
     
  15. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig Blazersland Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes
     
  16. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Even though I have been kicked out of the republican party by @MarAzul I still identify as a conservative. It pisses me off that white supremacists feel they have found a home and a voice in the republican party. It doesn't really matter what liberals say about that, it'a up to conservatives to get rid of these fucks. Too often in political discourse the argument is well this party may have a problem but the other party has this problem. It's deflection and not taking responsibility.

    Everyone needs to hold the political party they support to a higher standard instead of settling for maybe being slightly better than the other one.
     
  17. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Where have you seen that?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/who-connor-betts-dayton-ohio-shooter-1452491?amp=1

    This is about the only thing Ive seen.

    Edit: All it says is he went to a community college, worked at Chipotle and was registered as a Democrat.

    https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ohio-shooting/index.html

    edit: Found this too. Don't really know what to make of it. I wouldn't be at all surprised it was a white nationalist extremist, this isnt an attempt to deflect from that. Just not sure where you got the info that was the motive or whatever were calling it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  18. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

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    Bingo!
     
  19. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon Just to piss you off.

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    Oh yes, Maxine in particular has been quite a piece of work. Obama was just arrogant and condescending, but Maxine is a nut.

    Another time I'm afraid. I forget how exhausting this shit is. I remember why I stopped coming to the OT a while back.

    My personal opinion: I think it has far more to do with social media and the MSM than it does with anything a politician has said. The internet has changed dramatically just within the past 10 years, and it has caused problems we can't even begin to fathom. It has given a platform for all kinds of crazy ideologies. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a facebook account for head hunters for a Sun God or something.

    So it sounds like there is just no reasoning with you, period. Any mass shooter is going to be a "Trump guy".

    Then I'm gonna stop banging my head into this wall before it becomes bloody.

    I agree with this to a point; and that point being the very obvious fact that BOTH sides have extremists. The FBI is actually considering ANTIFA as a violent extremist group....they are anything but Conservative or Right-leaning. But does that mean that the Democratic Party is responsible for them?

    No?

    Okay......then why are Conservatives or Republicans responsible for White Supremacists? Why do we need to run around apologizing for them?

    They are BOTH fringes of their respective sides. I do, however, think that both sides could do a better job at pushing them away. The amount of times I've wanted to reach through a screen and smack a supposed Conservative for talking white supremacist propaganda, or spouting off some conspiracy about something, is endless. Hell, I wanted to do it just today on a gun forum! And I already got some white supremacist kicked off of that same forum for his racist rhetoric.

    But I don't blame gun owners for that guy's behavior because he signed on to a gun forum. I blame his ignorance, and I hold HIM responsible for it.

    I don't think either side should be taking responsibility for the fringe elements within. I do, however, think both sides should do a better job of isolating them and condemning them.

    But blaming a politician for something a mass murderer did? Sorry, that's going too far. I've never heard Trump once call for killing anyone illegally.
     
  20. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I am white,
    Perhaps even a nationalist.
    I voted for Trump,
    and very likely will again.
    I own a semi automatic rifle,
    have for 40 years.

    Now I thought of asking you what I can do for you, but... I does seem hopeless perhaps pointless.
    I suppose I should just take some advice from Marcus Aurelius;

    Learn not to be ready
    to listen to slander.

    Good stoic philosophy. Very close to appropriate for your post and your message.
     

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