Enough is enough: Trade Lillard

[Strenuus]

I went to the Rip City Radio Lottery party. I met only one fan who was trade Dame. Maybe 2 if you count Godfather.

No one should ever voluntarily listen to anything that dude says.

 

[tykendo]

No one should ever voluntarily listen to anything that dude says.

You know it's funny. Maybe because i'm not that far from his age , i like his takes for the most part on food, music, movies, but differ on sports takes much of the time.

 

[tykendo]

Actually he's 75. I'm only 59 I thought he was around 67 due to his musical likes.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Doesn’t matter really; teams don’t win championships with their best player being a PG in general.

Steph (PG)
Giannis
LeBron
Kawhi
Durant
Durant
LeBron
Igoudala
Kawhi
LeBron
LeBron
Dirk
Kobe
Kobe
Pierce
Parker (PG)
Wade
Duncan
Chauncey (PG)
Duncan
Shaq
Shaq
Shaq
Duncan
MJ
MJ
MJ
Dream
Dream
MJ
MJ

That’s the last 30 FMVPs. 3 are PGs.

19 were wings. And some of those wings had great scoring point guards on the team.

So we need to go get the best wing possible that allows us to add tge most talent around Dame and said wing.

 

[Phatguysrule]

View attachment 56008

Can one have their opinion bleached?

Asking for a friend....

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

The point is what player do you build a team around to be a contender? History would suggest its more likely with wings like Sharpe than a PG like Dame.

If there is no realistic chance to build a contender around Dame - then shouldn't the Blazers try a different path?

Dame jacks up a lot of shit deep shots and does play ISO ball - its a legit observation Nate had to question if there is a way that type of PG can be the best player for a contender.

"realistic" is a pretty subjective term isn't it?

do you mean the realistic paths Sacramento and Minny took when they spent a combined 33 straight years in the lottery? The realistic "process" path Philly took a decade ago that has resulted in exactly 0-as-in-zero conference finals wins over the last 11 years and 3 different coaches in the last 4 seasons?

* Chicago took the realistic option and traded Butler, then spent 5 of the next 6 seasons in the lottery while their one appearance in the playoff was a 1st round exit after winning one game...and they are preparing to tear it all down again

* Indiana traded Paul George and had 3 straight 1st round exits with the last 2 being sweeps; then the next 3 years in the lottery

* New Orleans traded AD and has had a 141-173 record since. And their big payoff for sucking has been drafting a player who has been as healthy as Greg Oden

* Denver traded Melo and it only took them 13 years to get where they are today and absolutely nothing they got for Melo has anything to do with where they are now

* Utah made it to the WCF with Deron Williams and traded him 14 years ago and has never made it back to the conference finals

you guys keep justifying trading Dame by saying there's no realistic template for contending with a player like him. What you're ignoring is that there is no realistic template for contending from trading a player like Dame either

 

[RonBrewer]

A long time reader, opened an account especially for this post.

Trading Ant and the 3rd pick to get Lillard help as you call it would only make us mediocre and absolutely destroy our future.
When you consider age and talent, both Ant AND the 3rd, each are more valuable to us than Lillard. On the other hand, we can get an excellent package for Lillard, think Franz Wagner, Cole Anthony and the 6th from Orlando. That would give us a talented future up to par with teams like the thunder.

To me, it's a no-brainer but since so many people here don't seem to get it, I went through the trouble of opening an account.
Trading our future for mediocre success next year would be devestating. Especially when the writing is on the wall. Please make the right decision and let go of Lillard

How about "No"

 

[noknobs]

I think more fans than you think are coming around to the realization that it’s probably time to deal Dame

Just the dumb ones.

 

[Natebishop3]

Just the dumb ones.

It's extremely arrogant to think that anyone who thinks differently than you is dumb. Personally, I try to see an argument from both sides and I can see valid points from either option, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Tince]

A long time reader, opened an account especially for this post.

Trading Ant and the 3rd pick to get Lillard help as you call it would only make us mediocre and absolutely destroy our future.
When you consider age and talent, both Ant AND the 3rd, each are more valuable to us than Lillard. On the other hand, we can get an excellent package for Lillard, think Franz Wagner, Cole Anthony and the 6th from Orlando. That would give us a talented future up to par with teams like the thunder.

To me, it's a no-brainer but since so many people here don't seem to get it, I went through the trouble of opening an account.
Trading our future for mediocre success next year would be devestating. Especially when the writing is on the wall. Please make the right decision and let go of Lillard

Dame won't go to Orlando as they're younger than Portland.

What is the realistic trade that meets the following requirements:

1. Sends Dame to a contending team
2. Portland receives the appropriate young talent & draft picks
3. Works within the CBA

 

[noknobs]

I try to see an argument from both sides and I can see valid points from either option, but maybe that's just me.

I try to see both sides as well, which is why I've come to the conclusion that trading Lillard when we finally have the assets to hopefully pair him with another star is objectively... dumb. He's 32, not 36.

 

[Strenuus]

You know it's funny. Maybe because i'm not that far from his age , i like his takes for the most part on food, music, movies, but differ on sports takes much of the time.

His sport takes are the worst I've ever heard this side of Danny Marang

 

[Whyachi]

His sport takes are the worst I've ever heard this side of Danny Marang

Danny accidentally started this whole Lillard not wanting to rebuild mess. Marang was kissing Ant's ass after a tough loss in the post game presser. Dame was grumpy, tired and mentally beat up during a losing skid. Lillard simply stated he didn't want to talk about rebuilding next season.

OMG... Dame wants out !!
- total b.s.

 

[inconceivable]

Dame won't go to Orlando as they're younger than Portland.

What is the realistic trade that meets the following requirements:

1. Sends Dame to a contending team
2. Portland receives the appropriate young talent & draft picks
3. Works within the CBA

I have been trying to find a team, but it's either we get subpar return so they can remain contenders, or we get amazing returns but what's left of them is not a contending team. But I'm no GM

 

[BlayZa]

i think the issue i actually have with anything is ability for us to make an actual positive move at all, either by trading Dame OR trading the pick.

Dame - Sharpe - Miller - Grant - whoever nurk/ant can get us

sounds ok to me

if the hornets take Miller i think we either have to move dame or the pick - i like scoot and amen, but using a high pick to play behind your best player seems like a huge waste.

maybe move 3 for 6/11 or do the nurk/ant/3 package for a C and some good bench people

 

[Mediocre Man]

It most certainly is our problem. When was the last time a star was traded to a team they didn’t want to play for?

I’m not articulating well enough, so I apologize. If the other team accepts Dame even if he doesn’t want to go there, that’s on them

 

[Strenuus]

Danny accidentally started this whole Lillard not wanting to rebuild mess. Marang was kissing Ant's ass after a tough loss in the post game presser. Dame was grumpy, tired and mentally beat up during a losing skid. Lillard simply stated he didn't want to talk about rebuilding next season.

OMG... Dame wants out !!
- total b.s.

He brings nothing of value to sports.

 

[Natebishop3]

I try to see both sides as well, which is why I've come to the conclusion that trading Lillard when we finally have the assets to hopefully pair him with another star is objectively... dumb. He's 32, not 36.

But you have to look at roster construction the same way that we look at a potential draft pick.

What's the ceiling?
What's the floor?

If we pair Dame with Brown and Grant, what is the ceiling of that team?

 

[Chris Craig]

Can one have their opinion bleached?

Asking for a friend....

Sure, in a manner of speaking.

 

[noknobs]

But you have to look at roster construction the same way that we look at a potential draft pick.

What's the ceiling?
What's the floor?

If we pair Dame with Brown and Grant, what is the ceiling of that team?

Why Brown? No thanks. Lillard, Sharpe, Grant, and a "star" in return for 3+Ant+whatever seems like a good core to build around.

 

[RonBrewer]

But you have to look at roster construction the same way that we look at a potential draft pick.

What's the ceiling?
What's the floor?

If we pair Dame with Brown and Grant, what is the ceiling of that team?

Ceiling at the very least is Miami Heat.
Floor- I'll go with Heat there as well.

 

[Natebishop3]

a "star" in return for 3+Ant+whatever seems like a good core to build around.

What star would that be?

 

[Natebishop3]

Ceiling at the very least is Miami Heat.
Floor- I'll go with Heat there as well.

None of Dame/Brown/Grant are remotely as good at defense as Butler/Bam.

 

[noknobs]

What star would that be?

Don't know! I don't pretend to know which players are truly available unlike some on here.

 

[Whyachi]

Blazers can furiously tank for several years and still never get a #3 pick. Asking Lillard to stay the course during this rebuild might bruise his fierce competitive nature, but once his supermax salary kicks in, Damian will be the highest paid player in the NBA. His complaints about the Blazers stinking may begin to subdue, as Lillard will not be surrounded by youngsters who probably should be in the G-League, but on an absolutely loaded young Blazers team with freakish athletes who can begin stringing wins together.

 

[wizenheimer]

If we pair Dame with Brown and Grant, what is the ceiling of that team?

how can you really form any answer to that question without assuming a static roster?

* what happens if Sharpe explodes...does the ceiling change?
* what happens if there is a major trade at next season's trade deadline?

*what happens if Portland uses the 23rd pick and lands a player like?

27 Pascal Siakam
29 Dejounte Murray
32 Ivica Zubac
36 Malcolm Brogdon
23 OG Anunoby
27 Kyle Kuzma
29 Derrick White
30 Josh Hart
24 Anfernee Simons
27 Robert Williams
33 Jalen Brunson
34 Devonte' Graham
36 Mitchell Robinson
41 Jarred Vanderbilt
42 Bruce Brown
29 Keldon Johnson
30 Kevin Porter Jr.
31 Nic Claxton
25 Immanuel Quickley
28 Jaden McDaniels
30 Desmond Bane
52 Kenyon Martin Jr.

that's just the last 5 drafts

what happens if Portland has an MLE signing like Milik Monk or Bruce Brown?

on the other hand, if you go back to the draft when Dame was picked 6th, and do the next 10 drafts, top-3 picks:

2 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
1 Anthony Bennett
3 Otto Porter Jr.
1 Andrew Wiggins
2 Jabari Parker
2 D'Angelo Russell
3 Jahlil Okafor
1 Ben Simmons
1 Markelle Fultz
2 Lonzo Ball
1 Deandre Ayton
2 Marvin Bagley III
1 Zion Williamson (giving Oden a run, oops, I mean limp, for his money)
3 RJ Barrett
2 James Wiseman
1 Cade Cunningham
2 Jalen Green

so, more than half are either busts, role players, or injury magnets. What is Portland's ceiling if they chose like that?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Huh?

The other Global Moderator brought up the petition.
It was a joke. Why can’t I see this post kind of thing.

 

[Natebishop3]

how can you really form any answer to that question without assuming a static roster?

* what happens if Sharpe explodes...does the ceiling change?
* what happens if there is a major trade at next season's trade deadline?

*what happens if Portland uses the 23rd pick and lands a player like?

27 Pascal Siakam
29 Dejounte Murray
32 Ivica Zubac
36 Malcolm Brogdon
23 OG Anunoby
27 Kyle Kuzma
29 Derrick White
30 Josh Hart
24 Anfernee Simons
27 Robert Williams
33 Jalen Brunson
34 Devonte' Graham
36 Mitchell Robinson
41 Jarred Vanderbilt
42 Bruce Brown
29 Keldon Johnson
30 Kevin Porter Jr.
31 Nic Claxton
25 Immanuel Quickley
28 Jaden McDaniels
30 Desmond Bane
52 Kenyon Martin Jr.

that's just the last 5 drafts

what happens if Portland has an MLE signing like Milik Monk or Bruce Brown?

on the other hand, if you go back to the draft when Dame was picked 6th, and do the next 10 drafts, top-3 picks:

2 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
1 Anthony Bennett
3 Otto Porter Jr.
1 Andrew Wiggins
2 Jabari Parker
2 D'Angelo Russell
3 Jahlil Okafor
1 Ben Simmons
1 Markelle Fultz
2 Lonzo Ball
1 Deandre Ayton
2 Marvin Bagley III
1 Zion Williamson (giving Oden a run, oops, I mean limp, for his money)
3 RJ Barrett
2 James Wiseman
1 Cade Cunningham
2 Jalen Green

so, more than half are either busts, role players, or injury magnets. What is Portland's ceiling if they chose like that?

And then there's the really fun stuff.....

Injuries
Egos
Coaching and its limitations
Age

But with all that said, at the heart of every championship team, there's the core. There's the foundation.

MJ and Pippen
Magic and Kareem
Shaq and Kobe
LeBron and Wade... and Kyrie.... and Davis.
Steph and Klay

Every championship team has a rock solid foundation and their team is built around that foundation. Role players come and go. Sometimes coaches come and go. But it's the core that makes the team a true contender. So the question is...... Dame/Butler/Grant - is that a championship foundation?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

right now I think Mike Malone is the best coach in the league...no knock on Spoelstra, but Malone has outcoached the league this season. I've seen many chapters of Blazer success and failure but I don't think winning a championship every year is the end all of a successful team. I saw us win a championship...saw us play the Bulls in the finals, saw us almost beat the Kobe, Shaq Lakers in the WCF and saw a contending roster go down with Wes achilles another year...then saw a one armed Kanter and Dame and Rodney Hood get us to the WCF when Dame was in terrible pain...yeah...there's a rollercoaster ride of fandom if you measure it by championships...I can find something to enjoy in Blazer basketball most seasons but tanking isn't one of them...as I've said...if they don't keep Dame next season, I'll probably give up on the NBA. You're welcome to bask in disappointment but I don't follow sports with those expectations. A lot has to line up to win a championship in sports. You can hire a dozen coaches but a team has to stay healthy and be consistent to win on that level.

"Bask in disappointment"? That's a new one. I'd prefer to AVOID disappointment. Usually my expectations are low enough that I'm pleasantly surprised. However, Chauncey has managed to go 2-0 in performing below my already low expectations.

 

[wizenheimer]

Every championship team has a rock solid foundation and their team is built around that foundation. Role players come and go. Sometimes coaches come and go. But it's the core that makes the team a true contender. So the question is...... Dame/Butler/Grant - is that a championship foundation?

Dame/Butler/Grant probably is. Dame/Brown/Grant probably isn't

Scoot/Sharpe/Little sure isn't; neither is Ant/Sharpe/Miller