No shit Sherlock, someone in this thread thinks that straight men shouldn't be ALLOWED to bitch about having openly gay men shower with them. I could give a fuck about gays in the military. Hell, if it were up to me we could start an entire gay military who's sole purpose is to round up illegal immigrants. Starting with the Norwegian ones of course.
Yes. Took a class on deviant behavior which explored all of this. Plus they have signs at my gym warning about sucking cawk in the shower.
I'm still confused about this objection. They're already integrated. Gay men and straight men and gay women and straight women were already sharing personal space. All that's changing is whether gay men and women can self-identify as such. You're saying that homosexuality no longer being forced to be a secret violates the straight soldiers' privacy? How so?
I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about my statement. Did I say that I personally want separate locker rooms? No. In fact, I went the opposite direction. I said there should be one locker room for men and women. I don't know why you, and others in this thread, have made this out as me personally saying that gays should be cast out into the cold. I DID say that I think there will be members of the armed services who will be uncomfortable changing/showering with homosexuals. That's a fact. You can't say that 100% of the military will be completely fine with this change. I'm tired of people making any comment, regardless of it's actual content, into some kind of homophobic slur. I'm tired of this politically correct society where any criticisms of Obama is made into some kind of racial bigotry. I also think there will be members of the military who want separate living quarters. This is a calculated and logical opinion. If you disagree, fine, but don't make this personal. So far I've had my posts equated to blacks and drinking fountains and treating gays like scum. What else would you like to say while we're at it? I think it's their right to feel uncomfortable. Despite what you may think, this is America where we are allowed to think for ourselves and have opinions whether you like them or not. That's our right. If someone is uncomfortable changing or showering in front of a gay man, that's their right as an American citizen. Once you start taking away a person's right to think, you lose what this country was founded on.
What about transgendered people are they allowed to serve in the army now? Are they going to reach out to the gay community like they do to minority neighborhoods and schools to recruit? x
Recruiters want numbers. I don't think they care who you are as long as you sign on the dotted line. They'd recruit in grade schools if they could.
Re: Re: FINALLY! Don't Ask Don't Tell is over!! Yeah. I got suckered into one of those high pressure sessions where they try to comimt you to signing up for bootcamp. Alot of those guys seemed like assholes who trick people to joining the army. I just wanted the free pair of socks they promised x
"oh just sign up for boot camp...its no big deal" "uh...no. I'm leaving now." Repeat like five times x
I think I filled out a form at a college fair because they gave me a pair of socks. They called relentlessly so I said fuck it, I'll check it out. Never considered it thought it would be quick, those fuckers were just annoying with the phone calls and messages so I thought it'd shut them up. I never expected for them to give me a test and have me already basically one signature away from joining the fucking army. It was a hard close on their part. I suspect many people actually believe their bullshit and die because of it.
You'll never shut them up... they'll keep calling and calling, and now you can't even tell them you're gay to get them off your back. I don't think people realize how many guys in bootcamp try using that excuse to get out.
Firstly, I'm not objecting. Please get that straight. Secondly, they're not already integrated. "Officially", the military didn't have any gay men or woman, right? Now, "officially", the military will be open to gay men and women. That means they have to "officially" integrate gay men and women into the military. I just have a feeling it won't be as seamless as some of you think it will be. You're giving the US government and the US military waaaaay too much credit in terms of logistics. Nothing is seamless in the military. Also, I have a feeling that a lot of gay men and women will continue to stay in the closet while they are enlisted, similar to the way that most athletes do not publicly declare their homosexuality until after their career is over.
Yep. Most soldiers don't make a big deal of their private life. I could, however, see a terrible soldier who still wants to make a career in the military sue because they claim if they weren't openly gay they would have been promoted. Claiming discrimination is always the last refuge of an incompetent.
By "objection," I meant that it was a concern of yours, an argument against. I wasn't claiming anything about your overall position to the policy. That's just semantics. They were already integrated, in that gays and straights were already mixed (and everyone knew that it was a mixed-sexuality population). The only difference was that those who were gay couldn't mention that they were. I don't see where the major psychological difference is. Before, you knew that there may be gay people "in the shower" with you (substitute whatever personal space you want there). Now, you may or may know for a fact that there are and you may or may not know who it is. Nothing is fundamentally different...straight soldiers may (or may not) just have more details of the sexuality around them. It won't be new that they may have gay soldiers around them. If the idea of gay soldiers sharing one's personal space bothers a soldier, they've already been bothered and made whatever compromises/peace with themselves over it. It won't be a new issue.
I have a feeling most will get over it quickly. I worked for a guy who was a retired Lt. Colonel in the US Army for 20-something years. As he explained, you didn't have time to be racist, so you got over it quickly. Same deal here if you ask me.
I don't think you could call it a concern or an argument against. It's merely an observation... a thought on what might happen. It doesn't affect me one way or another. The problem is Minstrel, your definition of "official" and the military definition of "official" are two very different things. I realize you think it's semantics, but it's not. If gays are officially allowed in the military, a soldier or a seaman can officially file a complaint about showering with gay men. On the flip side, if gays are not allowed and someone files a complaint, it's merely a case of he said, she said. See what I'm getting at? It opens up a mess of red tape. This is a different military now than it was fifty years ago. This is a military with timeout stress cards and rules for drill instructors so they cannot say certain things to a recruit. This isn't Full Metal Jacket anymore. If a Soldier, Seaman, Airman, or Marine files a formal complaint because they feel that their personal rights are being violated, the military has to listen to them. My point, in a nutshell, is that I think this opens up a can of worms. I might be wrong and you might be right. Things might go on like nothing happened with no problems whatsoever, but I have a feeling that won't be the case.
