The team is firmly entrenched in this city. Obviously ticket sales are down: we suck. But the fact that we aren't last in the league in attendance, despite winning only once, shows that their is still fan support, along with a stable ownership. I could see Atlanta and New Orleans moving before us. BTW, does anybody know where we rank attendance-wise this season? It'd be interesting to know how much we decreased.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PlaTsanity:</div><div class="quote_post">just leave this forum</div> Canadien teams dont succeed in the NBA and neither do MLB. The Grizzlies had to relocate and so did the expos. There's not enough fans over there than there is in the states. Theres a reason those teams moved to USA.
That was such an ignorant statement. Would you care to dig up some facts? Toronto teams have always fared better than the rest of the country. I guarantee that the owners of the Raptors, Leafs, and Blue Jays are making money. And probably more than other teams in the leagues. Every one of our professional teams now have stable ownership behind them, meaning that there's very little chance that anyone of them will end up moving.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">That was such an ignorant statement. Would you care to dig up some facts? Toronto teams have always fared better than the rest of the country. I guarantee that the owners of the Raptors, Leafs, and Blue Jays are making money. And probably more than other teams in the leagues. Every one of our professional teams now have stable ownership behind them, meaning that there's very little chance that anyone of them will end up moving.</div> I understand that but like I said the team needs some changes. Obviously, moving would be the last resort. Sorry for those comments, I understand how u feel. I watched Eddie. The team needs to fire Mitchell.
I didn't take offense, I just hate that old statement about Canadian teams not succeeding against the American currency. If the team is managed well, it isn't that big of a factor. Plus, Toronto is about as American a city as you could find in Canada. I want there to be change with this team, but want kind of change would help us at this point of the season? We fire Mitchell or Babcock, and who's going to replace them? No assistant GM would leave their team in the beginning of the season to manage a 1-15 team. Same with coaching. What coaches are left out there that would come to a team that is unstable enough to fire their coach 16 games in? They would probably be worse than Mitchell. Firing anybody in the middle of the season would be like denying the fact that we are rebuilding. Wait until the end of the year before making any huge decisions like that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't take offense, I just hate that old statement about Canadian teams not succeeding against the American currency. If the team is managed well, it isn't that big of a factor. Plus, Toronto is about as American a city as you could find in Canada. I want there to be change with this team, but want kind of change would help us at this point of the season? We fire Mitchell or Babcock, and who's going to replace them? No assistant GM would leave their team in the beginning of the season to manage a 1-15 team. Same with coaching. What coaches are left out there that would come to a team that is unstable enough to fire their coach 16 games in? They would probably be worse than Mitchell. Firing anybody in the middle of the season would be like denying the fact that we are rebuilding. Wait until the end of the year before making any huge decisions like that.</div> Dont fire BobCock, he's doing a good job like I said. Mitchell doesnt have a connection with the team and it sees like he cant produce wins with as much talent as team has. Look what the Nuggets did last year with Karl. They went on a huge run to the playoffs and that was in the midseason. Its still early. Dont let a young season turn into an old one. PJ carlesimo can take the job, Lenny, and a few others I can name. Jim O'Brien is also familiar with atlantic teams. Theres alot of coaches open/
There's no way we would hire Lenny Wilkins again. Or O'Brien after how he handled the Sixers. And when was the last time PJ coached? You can keep naming other ones, but there is no George Karl waiting to energize our team. If we really need to replace Mitchell, we'll have to wait till the offseason, when coaches resign/are fired and assistant coaches can be tempted to leave their teams. And the Raps aren't comparable to last year's Nuggets. That team was talented, but just needed a spark like Karl. Our team just sucks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">How about holding Donyell until the end of the season and getting absolutely nothing for him?</div> Amazing powers of deduction. It was a rookie mistake on his part. Good job, you mentioned one thing, now please carry on. I'm sure you can come up with more then 'Yell and Hoff.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rafy:</div><div class="quote_post">Amazing powers of deduction. It was a rookie mistake on his part. Good job, you mentioned one thing, now please carry on. I'm sure you can come up with more then 'Yell and Hoff.</div> I don't understand why you are defending this guy so vehemently. The way you talk I'd think that he's GM of the year. From my point of view here is what i see from rob babcock: Draft 04, Babcock on Araujo: "nba ready" "great court sense" year later, on Araujo "needs time to develop" Draft 05, Babcock on Joey Graham "NBA ready" "great court sense" What is the logic of drafting "NBA ready" players if we are rebuilding .. we should be drafting on potential if we're really going to give people time to develop. Please tell me what you think rob babcocks "plan" is, why it works .. and why Kiki wouldn't do a better job with our money in the off season….
a point that everybody seems to be neglecting is that channing frye is having a better season then charlie V. and remember frye fills a void at centre. don't give me the b.s. about frye not wanting to be here, trust me no kid is turning down millions unless they have guranteed money from other sources.nevertheless, hiring mithchell might be the biggest blunder of his tenure; araujo doesn't stunt anybody else development, mitchell does.
Why can't we though? Frye wouldn't work out for us. Would you have the GM drafting someone who wouldn't work out for us, kinda like the Magic GM and Fran Vasquez?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rafy:</div><div class="quote_post">Amazing powers of deduction. It was a rookie mistake on his part. Good job, you mentioned one thing, now please carry on. I'm sure you can come up with more then 'Yell and Hoff.</div> First you say find something that Babcock has done wrong, then when someone does you blast them and be sarcastic. I don't get it.... For me, I like the Toronto Raptors but I'm not the world's most hardcore fan. There are other teams in the like that I like more, but when I look at how other teams are managed and compare it with the Raptors it doesn't seem like much is being doing to improve our situation. What I am afraid of, is that the Raptors are going to wait until 2007, sign a big name and hope that this person will be able to significantly improve the team, but this person will not and the Raptors will have big money tied up in someone. Or that Rob Babcock may choose the wrong guy for the job. There are a few of teams from last year that have improved significantly that from an objective standpoint do not have that much more talent than the Raptors. I mean, would you say that the Charlotte Bobcats are much more talented than the Raptors? The Hornets and the Bobcats are better managed than the Raptors. Last year the Hornets were in a similar situation as the Raptors (trading away an unhappy superstar), but have thus far, managed to improved themselves much better than the Raptors. The two worst teams in the NBA are the two most mismanaged and the problem of mismanagement can be attributed to the GMs of both teams. Do you think that the Raptors would be in this situation if Bernie Bickerstaff was Head Coach/GM of the Raptors?
THe Raptors will never relocate. They are still a valuable cash cow for the MLSE, and as someone else said, we could have 5 straight losing seasons(like pitiful ones), and we'd still be here. Righ tnow, I 'm staying optimistic for the Raptors, because we are a rebuilding team. While I htink we hsould make some trades or do something in order to help stop this terrible beginning, I don't think firing Babcock is the thing to do, maybe mitchell.
I would have no problem with firing either of them, as long as it was after the end of the season, so that we could get an upgrade, instead of whoever was available. I mean thats how we got stuck with Babcock in the first place.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting nkwu:</div><div class="quote_post">THe Raptors will never relocate. They are still a valuable cash cow for the MLSE, and as someone else said, we could have 5 straight losing seasons(like pitiful ones), and we'd still be here. Righ tnow, I 'm staying optimistic for the Raptors, because we are a rebuilding team. While I htink we hsould make some trades or do something in order to help stop this terrible beginning, I don't think firing Babcock is the thing to do, maybe mitchell.</div> canada is expendable, we were just a test case in expansion. u should never fall in love too hard that u can't dig yourself out, she was never ours. she doesn't even know our name, we were just there for her for those lonely 11 years before she got swept up by that quarterback meathead that she's been in love with since high school
Hmm first of all, i am relieved to hear "fire GM/coach" kind of comments..shows the city still has hope (and although i love las vegas for the gambling, hotels, entertainment, i would hate to see an NBA team there) Anyways, my comment about this thread is that...mitchell will be fired if bab the cock finally realized that his job is not secure..he would fire mitchell for cover. AND, if he was to be fired, then i am sure sammy would be fired not long after too, it's like a chain effect. Toronto's beloved GM has low respectibility from the league when he first took the job, and taking a raw brazilian and calling him "NBA ready" certainly won't help his case. I think he should play in NBDL for a while before he comes back to the NBA, that would help his game. Now, my take on the "3 year plan thing" bab the cock proposed...it won't work out if the team suck so bad and bosh wants to leave would it? Second of all, bosh will only stay if toronto give him max contract (or close to it), which is like 75%-80% of rose's salary that you are supposed to save for salary space? Basically, it means we get nothing...no flexibility financially. Look at the bobcats and how bickerstaff has handled. He was given 80% of the salary space initially (i am not sure about this but i know for sure that charlotte starts with a lower salary space than every NBA team), and he chose to draft for depth. Look at charlotte now, i am not saying they are a good team, but they are obviously way better in terms of depth, and they have done a much better job scouting for talent and putting pieces together. And if you look at the hornets, they are so much more competitive than toronto is, not to mention they play in western conference. Trades, signings, all require hard scouting and good basketball sense. And, i believe no GM is perfect; however, so far the only good move i see bab the cock made was Mike james to make up for his stupid mistake of signing rafer for this long...i take it as compensation move... Drafting charlie is OK...yeah..he does well, but as i have said in other threads before, other rookies would have done the same if he is in toronto and given that much playing time. Charlie has no defence, and this is what the team needs..everybody knows that...and he still drafted people without defence. Joey graham has the potential defensively, but his game still needs lots of improvement. the Carter trade is a joke...he should have traded human ipod BEFORE the season begins when he already started whining...keeping marshall and not trading him for a draft pick or two was also a big mistake (i am sure there will be takers, especially the playoff deprived teams), besides, this season's draft is very deep, as a GM, you should know that you should get as many first rounds as possible since you are REBUILDING. Lastly, my suggestion for coach would be Eric Musselman. Certainly well respected around the league, and knows his plays and players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rookie789:</div><div class="quote_post">no sam mitchell should be fired FIRST then babcock</div> no my naive brother; sports is a business with a complimentary poltical wing which means that it wouldn't make political sense for babcock to fire mitchell. mitchell was babcock first and arguably second most important move in his tenure, second to the carter trade of course.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">canada is expendable, we were just a test case in expansion. u should never fall in love too hard that u can't dig yourself out, she was never ours. she doesn't even know our name, we were just there for her for those lonely 11 years before she got swept up by that quarterback meathead that she's been in love with since high school </div> Funny little analogy there but I disagree. It's obvious that the nba is trying to expand their market internationally so why not take advantage of one of the largest market's in north america? (Toronto being that market)...... Toronto is no more expendable than any other city in the league other than Chicago, New York and LA..... Note that I'm mentioning the city and not the franchise. They can move the Raptors, but they'd be crazy not to take advantage of Toronto's huge market, especially if it's the only Canadian city w/ an nba team. Considering that we've been one of the worst teams in the league for years now and despite this, we still have a relatively high attendance rate and Rap fans almost dominate message boards such as these, should be enough proof of how strong our market actually is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny little analogy there but I disagree. It's obvious that the nba is trying to expand their market internationally so why not take advantage of one of the largest market's in north america? (Toronto being that market)...... Toronto is no more expendable than any other city in the league other than Chicago, New York and LA..... Note that I'm mentioning the city and not the franchise. They can move the Raptors, but they'd be crazy not to take advantage of Toronto's huge market, especially if it's the only Canadian city w/ an nba team. Considering that we've been one of the worst teams in the league for years now and despite this, we still have a relatively high attendance rate and Rap fans almost dominate message boards such as these, should be enough proof of how strong our market actually is.</div> okay so u got more potential than that quarterback meathead of hers, but she's got history and her unrequited love for him in those 11 lonely years ensures that she's doesn't see his flaws. clearly very few (major US cities) can make her happy like we can and we stuck by her during some of those lonely winters (like this one) and we don't even get a goodbye. our cries are drowned out by the singing of "God Bless America". people like us and our lover (the raptors) don't make this best decisions in love (like saying moving the Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix where the wnba franchise gets more press then the coyates in spite of what gretzky says). I loved Her even though she didn't even stop to learn my name.
