Zombie Fire Olshey

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Fez Hammersticks, Dec 26, 2016.

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  1. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    [citation needed]
     
    Minstrel, Jan 23, 2017
    #341
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Davis makes ~$7M, a bargain.

    Leonard is a bargain, too, at $9M. For comparison, the Bucks signed Mirza Teletovic for a similar amount and for similar production. Same with Jon Leuer, Dwight Powell, and a few others.

    What makes you think teams wouldn't want him, especially if they don't have to give up players in return?
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
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  3. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

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    Leonard isn't a bargain at 41M/4 years. I kind of agree with Davis and Aminu too (if we add him in the conversation), but Meyers is no bargain. He is just a player being paid 10 times his value. If we had the cap space for Olshey's illusions I'd be ok with it, but right now the fact we pay this guy is a terrible decision. And how we would be worse without him since he doesn't win us any games?
     
    GDiama, Jan 23, 2017
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  4. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Davis is actually plausible, since he has a good performance history before this season.

    Leonard isn't a bargain. He's a gigantic overpay because he's currently not an NBA-caliber player. His Offensive Rating is terrible and his Defensive Rating is terrible. His Rebound Rate is terrible. His PER is terrible. And he's not on the upswing, he's regressed year-over-year-over-year (counting this season).

    Teletovic is equally bad this year, but the Bucks didn't pay him for what he's doing this year. They paid him for what he had done at the point that they signed him. He had a 16.2 PER last year (Leonard had an 11.3 PER last year).

    The main players destroying the Blazers' salary structure are Leonard, Crabbe and Turner. I don't think any of those players could be traded for a second-round pick. The only way you're getting rid of those players, in my opinion, is by packaging them with a real asset (like a first-round pick) and taking back a less-bad contract.
     
    Minstrel, Jan 23, 2017
    #344
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  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Leonard is a 24-year-old 7' guy who rebounds decently well and hits 3pt shots at .355 rate. There's demand.

    The other two are simply not albatross contracts.
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
    #345
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  6. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    The Spurs have been the best at finding D league bargains and for some reason the Blazers have never used the D league to their advantage or Euro league....we could stand to learn from Pops scouting team.
     
    riverman, Jan 23, 2017
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  7. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Two of these players aren't like the others:
    upload_2017-1-23_13-17-12.png
    Powell & Leuer contribute significantly more than Meyers does
     
    tester551, Jan 23, 2017
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  8. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

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    50% TS, unbelievable! even Napier is at 51.5%
     
    GDiama, Jan 23, 2017
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  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Misuse of stats.

    Win Shares is a measure of how well the team (Blazers) are doing, which is underperforming. If the Blazers were over .500, his numbers would be much better.

    In fact, his WS/48 was .078 last season, and .158 in a 51 win season (only Powell in your list topped that).

    EDIT:

    His career WS/48 is .091, Teletovic's is .079, and Leuer's is .116 (consider that he played for Memphis 6 seasons)
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
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  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    heh...

    CJ's WS/48 this year is .125. If that's how you measure how good a player is, Powell and Leuer are better players.
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
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  11. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not panicked. I just don't believe that NO made very good decisions this last summer.

    Plumlee is severely under-rated by Blazer fans. He's our 3rd best player and it isn't close IMO. Because he doesn't block shots, people claim he sucks at defense - but he is at least average... He's just not a 'shot blocker'. Due to the defensive deficiencies at the guard position, a lot of undeserved blame gets put onto Plumlee. If he was playing with guards that can actually 'guard', I think a lot of people would see how much he contributes to the team.

    I agree there are challenges with being at or under the cap. However, those challenges pale in comparison with being within $500 of the LT. Apparently you have a mindset that it's all or nothing. Portland would have significantly more options to make trades and roster changes if they were $5M below the LT.
     
    tester551, Jan 23, 2017
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  12. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

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    But don't you agree that since we don't have guards than can guard then we need a C that can guard very well? I'm with you he is good and he is probably the 3rd best Blazer, but he is also not really helping right now. We miss defense more than playmaking from the C spot.
     
    GDiama, Jan 23, 2017
    #352
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  13. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    WS/48 is impacted a little by how your team is, but it's definitely a useful indication of how useful a player is. It's one of the only stats that actually inherently takes into account both sides of the ball (hence why CJ is not much higher that Plumlee).

    Fine, if you only want to say that WS/48 is a team only stat... then how can you say that Meyer's provides positive contributions to the team when he's ranked 10th and is significantly below league average of 0.100.
    upload_2017-1-23_13-42-19.png
     
    tester551, Jan 23, 2017
    #353
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  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    As i see it, the more money you spend on the roster, the better the team should be. That assumes higher paid players are better than lower paid ones. It's obvious that you'd want to spend to $500K of the tax if you're not going over.

    Given the choices facing Olshey, there were no better players to be had. Only worse ones.

    There are no more options to make trades if $5M under the LT. The more money you spend on the roster, the better it should be. If we need to take back more in salary than we send out in a 1-for-1 trade, we make it a 2-for-1. Cap ballast is used in trades all the time.
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
    #354
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He doesn't play many minutes on a team with a losing record.

    In similar minutes, or even less, his WS/48 was better as the team's w/l was better. Look at his career year by year numbers.
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
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  16. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    I think we need defensive upgrades across the board. I'm not against 'upgrading' Plumlee, but I wouldn't let him walk because he's not an ideal fit with CJ & Dame. Honestly, I would entertain the idea of trading one of them because I don't think they will ever be able to make it past the 2nd round.

    I'm of the mindset that Crabbe, Turner, and Meyers contracts screwed us out of many opportunities moving forward. At this point, Portland is going to have to take some bad medicine to be able to move forward.
     
    tester551, Jan 23, 2017
    #356
  17. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I'm done... You & I will never see eye to eye. We'll just have to wait to see how this plays out.

    However, I don't want to see you in here complaining within the next year when NO isn't able to make any trades that change the direction of the team.
     
    tester551, Jan 23, 2017
    #357
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If NO had let Crabbe walk, who would be getting his ~30 minutes right now?

    Layman? He's not beating out Crabbe now, nor was he so good NO would let Crabbe walk.

    Aaron Brooks off the scrap heap? Name names you're sure we could get.

    I'm not seeing this vision of a better team without these guys.
     
    Denny Crane, Jan 23, 2017
    #358
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  19. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    Turner is play fewer than his career average mpg, he could easily pick up 7-8 mpg of Crabbe's.
    I would like to see Tim get some mpg.
    And yes Jake should get more mpg.

    If you are not going to play the young guys, why even bother to bring them on the roster? They need development time.

    Let Tim & Jake compete for the 20-23 mpg.
     
    oldfisherman, Jan 23, 2017
    #359
  20. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    It's arguable that even if Layman is better than Crabbe right now (which I'm not claiming), it would be detrimental to the team as a whole to elevate Layman ahead of Crabbe before having an opportunity to gain value from that asset.

    Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if in the alternate universe in which Layman had been playing Crabbe's minutes from day 1, his development would be such that he would presently be producing better and more consistently than Crabbe is at present.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Jan 23, 2017
    #360
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