Zombie Fire Olshey

wut?

both Chris Haynes and Jason Quick, before and after that draft, talked about how the Blazer scouts under Buchannen had been looking at Dame for a year. They kept circling back to him and it's important to remember how desperate Portland had been to find the PGOTF since they had passed on Paul and Williams for Webster

this wasn't about the "logic" of the entire draft but the desires and needs of the Blazers. IIRC, it was on talking ball or courtside that Quick said the Blazers had internal discussions about what they could do to get into draft position if Dame had come out after his junior year in 2011. You know, the draft the Blazers showed their desperation for a PG by taking Nolan Smith. And of course, it wasn't Olshey who traded for that 6th pick. It was sitting there when he arrived.

 

You don't have a clue of what you're talking about right now.

It's been a fact for years that Lopez didn't put up big numbers on the boards but because of his ability to box out his teammates are able to get more rebounds.

Rebounding really doesn't have that much to do with offensive system. Some players, regardless of system (Lopez, Davis etc) do what they do regardless.

 

Lillard was the obvious pick. Sac was ahead of us, Lillard put in the workout of his LIFE there and they were just stupid like always.

There was no way Lillard was getting past us.

 

Even after an OT win this thread must be bumped.

All I want for Christmas....

 

So you are honestly trying to argue that since the Blazers made a mistake 7 years prior in 2005 with different leadership they decided 2012 was going to be the year they had to find their PGOTF? I know Olshey didn't trade for that pick, that has nothing to do with who he chose with it. The Blazers were also desperate for a COTF too. Plus, Olshey had the final say so he didn't have to pick Lillard just because he had been previously wanted by scouts. Also just because a team targets one player it doesn't make that person the obvious choice.

 

And this is precisely why this team will remain mediocre as long as Neil is employed by the Vulcans.

Exremely uncreative and very non-aggressive.

 

Ive never really liked NO, but man some of the posts in this thread are just grasping at every straw possible to tear him down. Its really not that hard to criticize him if thats what you’re aiming to do.
Also us Olshey detractors HAVE to be willing to give him props for the good things he’s done or your calls dont mean much, just shows your bias.

 

Only right now? That's a compliment!

 

TBF sums it up for you here:

 

what I said was that once it was clear to them that Telfaire wasn't the PGOTF, they began a search that almost seemed desperate and lasted for several years until they had the opportunity for Dame.

KP had his lame-ass "bake-a-cake-then-capspace" plan that was going to complete the Roy-Oden team and he spent it on Andre Miller. They drafted Taurean Green. They rolled the dice with a 1st round pick on Sergio Rodriguez and KP admitted later that Paul Millsap was higher on their target list. The Blazers tried hard to get into trade talks when Deron and CP3 were being shopped but didn't have the assets. They wasted a 1st round pick on Nolan Smith and brought Steve Blake back 37 times after trading him away. They invested a lottery pick in Jerryd Bayless. They tried to trade up to draft Ty Lawson. They drafted Patty Mills & Armon Johnson. They traded for Ray Felton and Jonny Flynn

Portland spent at least 5 seasons thrashing around wildly trying to find that PGOTF. It didn't just start in 2012

would Olshey have been able to draft Dame with the 11th pick? almost certainly not. So yeah, the pick he 'used' on Dame he wasn't responsible for acquiring, so at the minimum, you have to give Chad Buchanen a big chunk of the credit for getting Dame to Portland.

but none of that addresses the 'fact' that two different reporters on the Blazer beat talked about how the Blazer scouting staff had been all over Lillard as a prospect long before Olshey arrived. Unless you dispute they said those things?

look, Rich Cho was fired in May, 2011. Olshey wasn't hired for more than a year later in June, 2012....about 2-3 weeks before the draft. Teams don't start building their draft books less then a month prior to drafts, they build them over months and seasons, And in the case of a player like Lillard, one with a 4 year college career, those scouting reports stretch back a long time. This is not a radical concept

I'm not trying to take all the credit away from Olshey on picking Dame. I'm just pushing back on the "he drafted Dame so he's a great drafter" narrative. He was the GM at the time. But it's pretty clear that Olshey arrived into a situation that had a well developed priority list of targets and Dame was high on the list. Maybe he brought his own recollections of the Clipper book with him and Dame was high on that list as well. It would be surprising with Chris Paul being in place, but I'd certainly grant Olshey probably knew about Dame before he arrived in Portland

 

that's true, and as a certified Olshey-hater I recognize that. And I have given him credit before but not often here

obviously, he's a master of dumpster-diving or the bargain-bin or whatever analogy you want to lose. When a team is looking to dump a player, Olshey has managed to be jonny-on-the-spot...maybe he's a master of timing too.

Eric Maynor, Robin Lopez, Mo Harkless, Napier, Plumlee. His one misfire was TRob but even the best dicemen will crap out every once in a while. But the one thread running thru just about all his bargain shopping is him having cap-space. That's over so most of those bargain bin opportunities will be foreclosed to him now. He doesn't have the biggest tool he's used

another thing he's been good at is drafting guards. The Lillard debate is a bit separate but he landed CJ in a weak draft, and he found Barton and Crabbe in the 2nd rounds. His drafting of big men is a lot more suspect.

 

Now THAT'S a dude I miss. Better than any of Olshey's free agents.

 

I'll say something else good about Olshey too:

even though I think the roster is kind of a mess, I can't remember a team filled with more likable players as individuals. Even the favorite whipping boys like Meyers and Turner have great off-court personalities. Sure, maybe it's a bit too good-ship-lollypop but it's definitely a different world than the jailblazer days

I mean, I'd be shocked if any of them would even jaywalk or get a parking ticket

 

Except for the actual things that happened everything else you said is pure speculation. I tend to not believe a lot of the stories GM's tell in hindsight. Like Danny Ainge claiming he would've taken Durant over Oden, no he wouldn't have. Of course KP wishes he took Millsap instead. My point all along is that when a team is drafting for need it doesn't make a pick a no-brainer or the obvious choice for a GM. In fact usually when a team picks based on need is when bad decisions are made. It's like you're saying Sam Bowie was the obvious pick for the Blazers in the 1984 draft because they had identified a need for a center. Lillard was the guy the Blazers were targeting. Everyone knew the Blazers were going to take him if he fell to 6. That has nothing to do with whether or not picking him was the obvious choice. Do you get what I'm saying?

I have and will continue to give Buchanan the credit for making a great trade to get the pick from the Nets. I'm fairly certain Dame wouldn't have fallen to 11th. I wanted to come out of that draft with Lillard and Drummond. Did Olshey try to move up? Who knows if it was even possible? If they took Drummond at 6, would Dame have made it to 9 and would the Pistons have been willing to trade without their big man on the board? We'll never know. If they take Barnes at 6, I doubt GS would've taken Lillard so maybe they would be willing to trade back to 11? Then you have to throw Kendall Marshall into the mix. At the time there were lots of people vocal about taking someone else at 6 and taking Marshall at 11. It turns out that would have been a very bad decision but this once again goes back to my point that taking Lillard was the only possible choice that day. Of course everyone thinks it was the right pick after seeing Dame in the summer league, duh!

Certainly any good GM will take input from his scouts. There is no question that Olshey came into a draft situation that was set up pretty well for him to hit a home run right off the bat. The team itself had just thrown a mutiny the season prior but that is a different topic. I'd love to be able to give Olshey truth serum and find out what exactly he wanted to do when he became GM. Was it to draft Dame and a center and try and build off of Aldridge and some of the secondary pieces the Blazers had like Batum and Wes? Did he think/attempt using those picks in a trade for an established player or to move up in the draft? I actually had a really cool experience with getting to have a private conversation with Chad Buchanan for over an hour towards the end of the 2011-12 season (after the wheels fell off). Right before that I heard a whole conversation about draft prospects between him and some of his personnel department since at that point they had given up on the season and were focused on the draft. You bringing all this up got me thinking back to that day and I can honestly tell you two things. The first is that they were high on Lillard but were just as high on a lot of other players too. Both the Blazers and the Nets had big losing streaks to end the season (Blazers 7 in a row, Nets 6 in row) that improved their draft position over the last couple weeks. The talk about players was more focused on players outside the potential top picks, not that the higher ones didn't come up. The second thing is that Chad really didn't want the GM job at least not for the Blazers at that time. He seemed perfectly content being behind the scenes.

As for them liking Lillard, don't you think any scouting department has identified players they like long before a draft. I would hope our scouts are already scouting for drafts over the next 3-4 years and not just the upcoming one. That's kind of their job, isn't it? You know what isn't their job? Making the final decision on who actually gets taken.

 

One of my favorite Olshey flubs: When he literally gave Ezeli $8m for nothing - even after reviewing his physical that was riddled with red flags. GS made zero effort to negotiate with Festus.

 

Vonleh is no longer tentative and finally playing with confident.

14 pts 15 rebs today.

IMHO, he'd be our starting PF if he weren't dumped for cap space.

 

To recap: Olshey picked Harkless and Vonleh off the scrap heap. He fell in love with Hark and gave him a fat contract. He tossed Vonleh back on the mulch pile. Guess who turned out to be the better player?

This is a stark example of Olshey's weakness as a talent evaluator, Stotts weakness as a talent developer, or both. A minor matter? Perhaps - but still illustrative of why change needs to start at the top!

 

Great analysis.

Even though he shows flashes here and there, Harkless is so mediocre. He's like Batum w/o the passing.

Vonleh's offense has improved so much with playing time. His defense is going to be his calling card. He's like an athletic Kurt Thomas.

 

Save us Jody!

 

Neil is content because he did help Lillard ....one time:



"The dipshits at Sportstwo should put their craft beer and granola down for a moment and listen, listen to KingSpeed." --Neil Olshey