<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">I am confused to why the hell you want to fire JVG. He isn't to blame for the bad start. What if T-Mac was not injured and we were 11-4? Would you want to fire him then? I don't think so.</div> This team is only good because of TMac, thats the point. We cant do jack without him. How much is van gundy really doing for this team if he cant even win us a single game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ClutchCity:</div><div class="quote_post">This team is only good because of TMac, thats the point. We cant do jack without him. How much is van gundy really doing for this team if he cant even win us a single game.</div> How does that make sense? Van Gundy's not the one missing shots. Van Gundy's not the one turning the ball over. Van Gundy's not the one who makes Stromile Swift and Derek Anderson as inconsistent as they are. This team can't win a single game without Van Gundy, but it's more the players' fault than it is the coach's. The Rockets were close in every game without McGrady, they just couldn't execute down the stretch. If a player makes a shot, it's the player's credit, but when he misses one, it's Van Gundy's fault?
To some extent it is the coach's fault if his team isn't executing. When a team no longer is listening and the coach isn't getting through to players, then it's time for a change. However, the players who are inconsistent, have been doing it their entire careers so it shouldn't surprise anyone. Now if JVG is having input in all decisions, then he is responsible for agreeing to bring in these type of personalities on board and he has to take accountability. He might have sealed his own fate signing off on Stromile Swift and Derek Anderson. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting rockstar:</div><div class="quote_post">JVG 1st season (2003-2004) with the Rockets got 45 wins. But compared Yao's rookie year (2002-2003) with Rudy got sick and absent and the Rockets, lost 7 out 10 in a stretch, the Rockets still got 43 wins. So with the same roaster and 1 more year with Yao, JVG managed to get 45 wins. I dont know if we can say this is improvement (for me, I think its no change or a disappointing season). JVG 2nd season (2004-2005) with the Rockets got 51 wins. But mostly becoz T-Mac asked JVG to back off and give him the ball after the start 6-11 stretch. So, how many credit should we give to JVG for the results? Any average coach with T-Mac and Yao should get that result.</div> You cannot expect an overnight miracle in a coach's first season with a team. JVG spent a year getting familiar with the roster and selling his brand of basketball. I disagree with giving TMac the majority of credit for the team improving from 45 to 51 games. It took JVG convincing TMac to play his style of basketball and deferring to Yao Ming for this team to win more games. In the TMac deal, the Rockets lost their top two scorers and their backup center. It's a big adjustment when you pull off a blockbuster deal, but JVG still managed to improve the win total and get the Rockets back into the playoffs. Also he got TMac to play defense again and become a leader of a team. Even TMac praised JVG for turning around his career and fixing his "selfish" image. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting squishface:</div><div class="quote_post">Then again, he never did win a title with those hard nosed players of his, so maybe he's going from one extreme to the next. </div> This could hold a lot of truth, but if this is the case JVG committed the Cardinal Sin of coaching by not sticking to what he knows best. Making adjustments is one thing and finding a happy median, but going from one extreme to another is the kiss of death. Interesting point about Patrick Ewing as well. I think you're on to something there, and if you look at Ewing's career he's always played alongside thug power forwards to compliment his weaknesses. I think Yao Ming needs to be surrounded by the same type of physical presence at power forward. Someone needs to be brought in to be Yao's Charles Oakley.
<font size=""4"">Good Article on JVG's offense:</font> http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20051121-115209-4575r.htm Real sleeper By Kevin Brewer THE WASHINGTON TIMES November 22, 2005 Maybe Houston Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy should be banned from the league. And not because he said a referee warned him officials were instructed to watch Rockets center Yao Ming more closely for moving screens during last season's playoffs. For that comment, NBA commissioner David Stern fined him $100,000. In Houston, we have a new problem. Specifically, how to put the ball in the basket. Van Gundy's Rockets (3-7) are last in the league in scoring, struggling to produce 83.9 points a game. Their latest effort was a 74-point showing Sunday night in an 11-point loss to the Indiana Pacers. The Rockets haven't scored 100 points all season. Three times they have failed to hit 80. With these numbers, they would be lucky to beat Duke. This is Van Gundy Ball. He loves to use the shot clock and preach defense. The only thing he enjoys more is hanging onto Alonzo Mourning's ankle for dear life. Van Gundy sees 24 seconds as an eternity and when he is coaching, it sure seems that way. Every Rockets ticket should come with a warning: May cause drowsiness. The game is supposed to be fun. It meant to be played. But here is Van Gundy trying to pitch a shutout. Van Gundy likes to control the game, and there is nothing sadder than a 5-foot-9, balding, 43-year-old man with control issues -- unless that man is hanging onto another man's ankle. During his five full seasons coaching the Knicks, Van Gundy's teams finished 19th, 25th, 27th, 27th, and 28th in scoring. In 1999, he led the eighth-seeded Knicks (27-23, 86.4 points a game) all the way to the NBA Finals using this strategy. Defense wins championships, he believes. But Van Gundy doesn't just clamp down on the opposition. He defends against his own players, too. Two seasons ago, Steve Francis averaged a career-low 16.6 points under Van Gundy. Allan Houston never averaged 20 points -- until Van Gundy left New York. Latrell Sprewell averaged 20 points in Golden State. Then he met Van Gundy in New York and averaged 17.9 over five seasons. Last season Van Gundy experienced a scoring breakthrough of sorts, when the Rockets averaged 95.1 points (20th in the league) on their way to 51 wins. Of course, he did this with former scoring champion Tracy McGrady and 7-foot-5 Yao Ming (.552 field goal percentage). This season's futility isn't only about McGrady's back spasms. He has played in six games and the Rockets have averaged 92.8 points in those, which would make them 23rd in the league. This season's offensive offense is Van Gundy Ball. It's about playing scared.
Well thank goodness for the Hawks, the Rockets finally hit the century mark and boosted their scoring average to 86 PPG. The real problem is not the offense, it's the passing. This team is dead last in APG at only 16.3, which down from the 21.1 from last year. They are also one of the worst at forcing turnovers at only 11.7 a game. This all boils down to one thing ... this team really misses Bobby Sura
That's an article from two weeks ago. Surely you didn't dig this article up just to prove a point? Threads merged. Read the warning at the top of the page first.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">How does that make sense? Van Gundy's not the one missing shots. Van Gundy's not the one turning the ball over. Van Gundy's not the one who makes Stromile Swift and Derek Anderson as inconsistent as they are. This team can't win a single game without Van Gundy, but it's more the players' fault than it is the coach's. The Rockets were close in every game without McGrady, they just couldn't execute down the stretch. If a player makes a shot, it's the player's credit, but when he misses one, it's Van Gundy's fault?</div> The reason the rockets suck on offense is JVG's system. Look at the stats. His players have always played down from thier career on offense. He has never made his team strong offensively. Are you giving every guy who played under him the blame rather than him? Dont understand the second part, we cant win a single game without van gundy? I think we could. I would say JVG is the reason we cant execute down the stretch.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">How does that make sense? Van Gundy's not the one missing shots. Van Gundy's not the one turning the ball over. Van Gundy's not the one who makes Stromile Swift and Derek Anderson as inconsistent as they are. This team can't win a single game without Van Gundy, but it's more the players' fault than it is the coach's. The Rockets were close in every game without McGrady, they just couldn't execute down the stretch. If a player makes a shot, it's the player's credit, but when he misses one, it's Van Gundy's fault?</div> I still can't figure out how you can dwell on DA's play, and praise sorry azz David Wesley. Both have struggled, but DA has outplayed him. So how can you label DA inconsistent without mentioning Wesley's inability to dribble the ball, shoot the ball, or defend just about anybody on the court. Atleast DA has picked up his scoring. Other than that, I actually AGREE with you.
Our team averages lower PPG because we like to use the shot clock. We need a slow paced game in order for Yao to be as effective as possible. JVG's system works best with the 1st piece of the puzzle (Yao), and its okay with McGrady. Even though McGrady would probably be a lot more effective under a faster paced system. It makes sense that players average less PPG under the JVG system, because they get less touches due to playing a slower half court offense. If they score less PPG because of a lower FG% then that is a problem. But what difference does it make if we play faster and score more (which we already have trouble doing playing at a slower pace), when that means the opponent gets to score more. Our guards will have to play more D, and that is a problem, because Yao will get into foul trouble even faster. <font color=""Red"">WOW JVG system makes so much sense now that I think of it. It suits our team so much. </font>
The rockets do have a low field goal percentage. I dont understand your conclusions, but the half court and defense doesnt mean that you can barely score 90 points in a game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">Our team averages lower PPG because we like to use the shot clock. We need a slow paced game in order for Yao to be as effective as possible. JVG's system works best with the 1st piece of the puzzle (Yao), and its okay with McGrady. Even though McGrady would probably be a lot more effective under a faster paced system. It makes sense that players average less PPG under the JVG system, because they get less touches due to playing a slower half court offense. If they score less PPG because of a lower FG% then that is a problem. But what difference does it make if we play faster and score more (which we already have trouble doing playing at a slower pace), when that means the opponent gets to score more. Our guards will have to play more D, and that is a problem, because Yao will get into foul trouble even faster. <font color=""Red"">WOW JVG system makes so much sense now that I think of it. It suits our team so much. </font></div> IT makes sense that JVG slows down the game for Yao(because of his size) but it doesn't make sense how disorganized they are in getting back to defense and covering the 3. Their lack of offense can be explained by the scrub role players and JVG style of not distributing the ball well. Tmac is the only one taht can make the team tick on defense and offense due to his skill, not due to jVG coaching ability. Basically tmac is making JVG look a good cach
Have you ever seen Friday Night Lights? JVG's system is based around Tmac and Yao, but its dependent on Tmac handling the ball, dishing it out, creating his own shot, and shots for his teammates. We don't have a player that can do all the things that Tmac does, we don't even have a Tmac lite, so stop bashing JVG when there are bigger things in play.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting chineseafro:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you ever seen Friday Night Lights? JVG's system is based around Tmac and Yao, but its dependent on Tmac handling the ball, dishing it out, creating his own shot, and shots for his teammates. We don't have a player that can do all the things that Tmac does, we don't even have a Tmac lite, so stop bashing JVG when there are bigger things in play.</div> thats all jvg's idea was... t-mac t-mac t-mac, then when he had injury, usualy good coaches will have ideas how to win.. seriously, at least get more than 80 points... if you can;t do that... i think thast pretty sad
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ClutchCity:</div><div class="quote_post">JVG has a history of being terrible on offense.</div> I would actually say that it's more that he tries to control the tempo too much. This is why he didn't get along with Francis, he refuses to let his pgs be floor generals. Let young guys run.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I would actually say that it's more that he tries to control the tempo too much. This is why he didn't get along with Francis, he refuses to let his pgs be floor generals. Let young guys run.</div> Yeah but Francis wasn't exactly the best floor general to begin with. He would be too wild at times and do too much for the team and force up shots at times. I'm sure if we really had a good floor general Van Gundy would be fine with it.
JVG flat out controls everyone too much. He is too strict, heck, he even restricted TMac at one point. One reason why we suck on offense-JVG doesnt give his players enough freedom.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ClutchCity:</div><div class="quote_post">JVG flat out controls everyone too much. He is too strict, heck, he even restricted TMac at one point. One reason why we suck on offense-JVG doesnt give his players enough freedom.</div> Yeah, basketball is about fun. You could see Swift was so tense and nervous of making a mistake and how lost he is in the court. It backfires and it shows, he looks like he peein his pants throughout the game. He's probably given too much of a role by jvg and he isn't comfortable with himself. I'm sure if he was given more of a direct role without JVG complicated roles he would perform more confidently and better. Swift is given a role that he isn't capable of doing. Swift is only a role player, not allstars like Tmac or Yao.
Houston Rockets are Pathetic!! Talk about lows for this Houston Rockets team. They got blown right out of the gate in the game vs. Memphis. When are they going to get their act together? Will they be able to get their act togther. It is just disappointing to see a well built team turn out poor performance. Who is at fault? The answer to that question is simple. The Coach Jeff Van Gundy! His style of play is unacceptable. Teams have figured out how to match up with his lousy, piss-poor offensive sets. The reason our shots are not going in is a reflection of his practices and offensive no hows. It is embarassing to see the shot selections, missed bricks, and point blank layups. What in the world are you doing in those practice drills?? No matter how decent our defense is, if we have no offense, we will not win. With high caliber players except J. Howard (mr. inconsistent) and D. Wesley (mr. good game today, terrible games a week), we should be scoring like crazy. My final word is fire coach Jeff Van Gundy. He is dragging the entire ship down and if the management do not see that, this ship would have already sunked without even leaving port!
